Will Smashing Pumpkins be able to sustain this resurgence?

[artvase]

Originally Posted by houseofglass11

And actually Lithium has some of the fuzziest guitar on Nevermind since he was using a big muff on that song which, zing, Billy used on SD. Pwnt. Sk ck.

Where did you read that Kurt used a big muff on Lithium? I thought he used a Rat throughout the album but I don't claim to know that for sure.

But honestly the guitars on Lithium don't even sound characteristic of a Big Muff. If it is a Big Muff, it's been highly glossed up through production. I think it's a far reach to say Corgan used a Big Muff on Siamese Dream because Kurt used one, if he did.

In the video promoting the re-release of the op amp muff, Corgan says they got Big Muffs because they'd heard them being played by a band they shared a rehearsal space with and Billy thought it gave a great 'Sabbath' sound. Whether or not you believe what he says, it makes a lot more sense. Siamese Dream overall sounds like the Big Muff more than anything on Nevermind. I mean, everyone associates the album with that pedal and not Nevermind sooo..

[houseofglass11]

Google it. Well documented that Vig had him use a big muff on Lithium through a Fender Bassman. Breed is also a big muff. But yeah I know the story of SP sharing a space with Catherine and first hearing the big muff there.

[ninsp]

Ha.

Oh wait, ppl who think SD ripped Nevermind are serious

[fuzzyroes]

The original thought shared here was that the Siamese Dream guitar sound was Loveless meets Nevermind. Obviously that doesn't tell the whole story, but it's a pretty apt comparison.

[houseofglass11]

Ha people that think Nirvana and Nevermind didn’t hugely affect Billy are serious

[fuzzyroes]

People on this forum never wanna credit any influence to Nirvana. I've never really understood why. I guess if you weren't alive at the time, it's hard to truly fathom what a game-changer the band was.

[redbreegull]

Originally Posted by houseofglass11

Gish sounds like a totally different band

Gish sounds like a different band than SD? A totally different band, huh? come on dude, I see you reaching for those straws, but your arms will never be long enough.

Originally Posted by artvase

Where did you read that Kurt used a big muff on Lithium? I thought he used a Rat throughout the album but I don't claim to know that for sure.

But honestly the guitars on Lithium don't even sound characteristic of a Big Muff. If it is a Big Muff, it's been highly glossed up through production. I think it's a far reach to say Corgan used a Big Muff on Siamese Dream because Kurt used one, if he did.

Originally Posted by houseofglass11

Google it. Well documented that Vig had him use a big muff on Lithium through a Fender Bassman. Breed is also a big muff. But yeah I know the story of SP sharing a space with Catherine and first hearing the big muff there.

The bass on Breed is thru a Muff I think. If there is Big Muff on Lithium, it's a pretty augmented sound because it doesn't have the characteristic sound. Nevermind doesn't really have similar guitar sounds at all except in a very general way, and obviously Butch Vig has a certain style of producing. Either way it is safe to say with near-certainty that SD being Muff-heavy has nothing to do with Nirvana using the same pedal, widely-known since at least the mid-70s, on two songs in a way that doesn't even capture the typical Muff sound. Billy heard the band Catherine using Big Muffs I think and became obsessed with the sound because it sounded like a jet taking off or something like that to paraphrase him from Confessions.

[redbreegull]

at a certain point I just gotta assume you guys have never really listened to the bands which are mutual influences on SP and Nirvana, cause the kinds of similarities you are hearing are from bands like LED ZEPPELIN and BLACK SABBATH

Billy was always an arena metal/hard rock guy and has talked extensively about how he felt that rock was not cool in the late 80s and was into sort of disguising himself in a way through first the new wave sound, and then even on Gish as he embraced more straightforward rock, siphoning it through his put-on breathy voice and psychedelia.

I am 100% sure Nevermind influenced Billy in making him feel like he had to beat all these other bands who were cashing in on his own childhood passion while he was busy trying to be cool or whatever. Musically and lyrically, SD is just Billy coming home to the kind of music that has always been the most important to him, and he talked about that in confessions as well. But the idea that he tried to copy the Nevermind sound or the way Kurt Cobain used guitars or something is fucking ridiculous because 1) they just aren't that similar within the world of alt rock, 2) as I've stated many times already they have a LOT of common influences, and 3) the same producer worked with both bands and worked with SP first. So although Billy's claim that Nirvana copied Gish is also asinine, it's more believable than SD copied Nervermind because like what in the fuck are you guys even hearing

[fuzzyroes]

Nobody is disputing the influence of those bands from the 70's. It's completely irrelevant to the comparison that the guy made.

[slayed23]

There is a major difference between being influenced by an album and ripping it off.

[houseofglass11]

Gish and SD sound almost like two different bands. Yes. Gish sounded like Jane’s Addiction meets Guns N‘ Roses with some sixties psych influence thrown in. Drastically different guitar sound with the ADA preamp that was used by mostly hair metal bands. The song structures were more pop oriented on SD while Gish was very jammy with a lot of instrumental showing off. His vocal style was much more breathy and shoegaze influenced on SD also.

[houseofglass11]

And Zeppelin? I’ve never heard much LZ in SP tbh. Always heard more Hendrix and Sabbath along with AOR bands like Boston and Queen.

[redbreegull]

like grungy guitars? first of all what the hell is a grungy guitar tone? Nirvana, Pearl Jam, and Soundgarden all have different sorts of tones which are not easily mistakable for one another. And I hear a totally different thing entirely on Siamese Dream. The guitars on Gish sound more like Nevermind if anything

[redbreegull]

Originally Posted by houseofglass11

Gish and SD sound almost like two different bands. Yes. Gish sounded like Jane’s Addiction meets Guns N‘ Roses with some sixties psych influence thrown in. Drastically different guitar sound with the ADA preamp that was used by mostly hair metal bands. The song structures were more pop oriented on SD while Gish was very jammy with a lot of instrumental showing off. His vocal style was much more breathy and shoegaze influenced on SD also.

yeah but they sound like two consecutive albums by the same band

[redbreegull]

MCIS sounds like a "totally different band"
Adore sounds like a "totally different band"
Machina sounds like a "totally different band"

[houseofglass11]

Indeed. Billy was pretty successful at reinventing the bands sound with every successive album.

[redbreegull]

You should listen to more music if you really think every SP album sounds like a "totally different band." He's great (or was great) at creating new and exciting sonic textures and atmospheres on each consecutive release, but the band has a very cohesive, very recognizable central sound. From a guitar perspective, Billy has a very very recognizable style and there are certain techniques he uses perennially to achieve his signature style

[houseofglass11]

Thanks for the advice, I definitely haven’t listened to thousands of bands from a variety of genres. I’m aware that they “aren’t a different band” on each album. But there are some drastic shifts in style. Yeah the core sound is there. But something like WBFtT is very different than, say, Hummer. There are different influences being pulled from depending on the album or song.

[redbreegull]

well you were literally saying "they literally sound like a different band," literally at least three our four literal times, literally

[houseofglass11]

Yeah figuratively speaking in reference to the style and production shifts between each album.

But anyways, are you done now?

[fuzzyroes]

Originally Posted by redbreegull

Adore sounds like a "totally different band"
Machina sounds like a "totally different band"

I don't think so. There's shades of adore all over Machina.

[fuzzyroes]

1979, Perfect, Try-try-try, Wound, Stand Inside Your Love, 33, Daphne Descends, Chorus of TEG.

All that shit sounds like could've been from the same album.

[fuzzyroes]

The success of 1979 was the worst thing that could've happened for the band because after that they tried to follow that formula with a ton of songs on Adore and Machina. Just like Sugar Ray after Fly was a success.

Some chalk it up to major label pressure.

[artvase]

Originally Posted by fuzzyroes

People on this forum never wanna credit any influence to Nirvana. I've never really understood why. I guess if you weren't alive at the time, it's hard to truly fathom what a game-changer the band was.

Man everyone knows how game changing Nirvana was because the story has been told over and over for the past 25 years while only recently in the past 7-8 years have more underground bands been getting the credit they deserve for shaping and influencing future artists as well.

The fall of the music industry because of illegal downloading has not only changed how people listen to music, but how they are forced to discover it. And with that comes how eras of the past are looked at in hindsight. Nirvana wrote some great songs, real bangers, but the fact of that matter is that they were chosen by the music industry and shoved down everyone's throat through the radio and MTV as "the next big thing." There were better alternative bands before Nirvana, at the time of Nirvana, and after Nirvana. By putting "Smells like Teen Spirit" in the spotlight, it was really the industry itself that changed the game less so than the band itself.

People are saying Corgan heard Nevermind and wanted to copy it when in reality he probably had his own vision and any era semblance to Siamese Dream to Nevermind is most likely due to record business influence.

[houseofglass11]

Pls don’t talk about Sugar Ray ever again

[redbreegull]

Originally Posted by fuzzyroes

The success of 1979 was the worst thing that could've happened for the band because after that they tried to follow that formula with a ton of songs on Adore and Machina.

remember when you said this before and literally no one knew what you were talking about?

[spumpernickel]

i know what he's trying to say and i'm pretty sure he's said it before, but i don't think it's really accurate. 1979 was not totally unlike anything they'd done before, and it has plenty of similarities to numerous other mellon collie era songs. i think the fact that he was so set on finishing the song at the last minute of the record means it was probably a course he was going to go down anyways. and yes, i'm sure the success of the song reinforced that choice for him, but it's not like the band completely changed because of a fluke track like sugar ray did.

[redbreegull]

Originally Posted by fuzzyroes

I don't think so. There's shades of adore all over Machina.

all the albums sound like each other. SP has an immediately identifiable sound

[redbreegull]

Originally Posted by spumpernickel

i know what he's trying to say and i'm pretty sure he's said it before, but i don't think it's really accurate. 1979 was not totally unlike anything they'd done before, and it has plenty of similarities to numerous other mellon collie era songs. i think the fact that he was so set on finishing the song at the last minute of the record means it was probably a course he was going to go down anyways. and yes, i'm sure the success of the song reinforced that choice for him, but it's not like the band completely changed because of a fluke track like sugar ray did.

yeah. I find the idea that this one song changed the whole band to be kind of ridiculous and I just don't hear it. Perfect is the only song in their catalogue I would say is actually supposed to be evocative of 1979 specifically. The 1979 riff is basically sliding on some octaves while using the low E as a drone with some bends here and there. this is one of the most stylistically repeated things corgan does in his music to create the "SP sound."

[houseofglass11]

Originally Posted by redbreegull

all the albums sound like each other. SP has an immediately identifiable sound

The albums definitely do not sound like each other. The most identifiable thing about the band is Billy’s voice. Each album is very different. We’ve been through this.