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Old 05-07-2018, 09:14 PM   #1
fuzzyroes
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Default Can there be any less hype than there is for the Smashing Pumpkins reunion?

Honestly... It's as if no one gives a shit.

When STP and Soundgarden reunited, They were featured on the cover of big magazines like SPIN and there was endless anticipation... With the Pumpkins, they had a little piece in a New York newspaper and that was it.

I just figured there would be a lot more fanfare, but it literally seems like no one cares.

Sure, they'll sell some tickets and people will leave enjoying the nostalgia, but this shit kinda seems like a giant bust.

 
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Old 05-07-2018, 09:23 PM   #2
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The question is, what are you going to do about it?

 
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Old 05-07-2018, 09:27 PM   #3
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It’s selling well, un-like STP and Soundgarden’s reunion, though.

 
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Old 05-07-2018, 09:30 PM   #4
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Not true. The first tours back by STP and Soundgarden sold like gangbusters... It wasn't until their 2nd and 3rd go-round in the same markets that ticket sales fledged.

 
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Old 05-07-2018, 09:32 PM   #5
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Brett can surely vindicate what I'm saying.

If Pumpkins tour with the same lineup in the same markets 2 years from now the ticket sales will be a lot worse too.

 
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Old 05-07-2018, 09:33 PM   #6
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Like we've discussed a million times, if it was the original lineup, that would have a lot of appeal for a magazine cover, like it did for Soundgarden and STP with the Billboard and SPIN covers they did to hype their reunions. People who were fans of the Pumpkins in the 90's would be like, 'Cool, all four of them finally found a way to work it out.'

3/4 with some guy most people don't know doesn't have the same pull. D'arcy being the only woman in the band too is a noticeable absence on a magazine cover: 'Where's the chick?' It doesn't get the same reaction as all four would get.

Billy made a terrible miscalculation in thinking that James Iha is Slash and D'arcy is Steven Adler, when they are equally important in the eyes of casual fans, especially due to how unique their looks were in the alternative rock 90's scene at the time being an Asian man and woman. This was the type of reunion where you actually needed every member to pull it off unlike Guns N' Roses who have a Mick/Keith and Page/Plant type situation with Axl/Slash.

The tour could end up doing well, but if it was the original lineup I'm convinced they could have become festival headliners again which I don't see happening without the full original lineup.

 
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Old 05-07-2018, 09:42 PM   #7
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Originally Posted by WeilandFan View Post

Billy made a terrible miscalculation in thinking that James Iha is Slash and D'arcy is Steven Adler, when they are equally important in the eyes of casual fans, especially due to how unique their looks were in the alternative rock 90's scene at the time being an Asian man and woman. This was the type of reunion where you actually needed every member to pull it off unlike Guns N' Roses who have a Mick/Keith and Page/Plant type situation with Axl/Slash.
Excellently put.

I do think that a group like Smashing Pumpkins holds a lot more cultural weight than Stone Temple Pilots though. I figured Iha/Corgan/Chamberlin being back together would still garner major hype. I thought they'd be back on magazine covers and the whole 9 yards.

I guess the only chance of the Pumpkins making a buzz is if the shows are off the hook. I still think that pre-tour buzz is important in getting the public hyped up for the shows.

Brett, do you think because Guns N Roses did next to no press before their tour that the idea is that Smashing Pumpkins can follow the same formula and attain the same success ?

 
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Old 05-07-2018, 09:59 PM   #8
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Billy also preempted a lot of hype by spilling a lot of info beforehand in interviews and on instagram. There is a lot to be said for keeping quiet about these things and re-generating some mystique.

 
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Old 05-07-2018, 10:15 PM   #9
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Billy Corgan is basically the king of overpromising and underdelivering.

 
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Old 05-07-2018, 10:45 PM   #10
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Excellently put.

I do think that a group like Smashing Pumpkins holds a lot more cultural weight than Stone Temple Pilots though. I figured Iha/Corgan/Chamberlin being back together would still garner major hype. I thought they'd be back on magazine covers and the whole 9 yards.

I guess the only chance of the Pumpkins making a buzz is if the shows are off the hook. I still think that pre-tour buzz is important in getting the public hyped up for the shows.

Brett, do you think because Guns N Roses did next to no press before their tour that the idea is that Smashing Pumpkins can follow the same formula and attain the same success ?
Maybe a bit, but STP and the Pumpkins I'd say were on pretty equal footing in 2007/2008 popularity wise as live acts, with STP edging them out a bit as they were playing larger venues for the most part in North America. If Billy had the original lineup back then though he could have topped them.

The Pumpkins definitely hold way more cultural weight now. STP's legacy has been significantly damaged by Weiland's firing, then dying, and Chester quitting then dying.

I'm still really looking forward to the new music, as it isn't really something that has anything to do with the idea of the tour/reunion.

If this whole thing was not marketed as a 'reunion' and was just James being back in the band, with a tour focused on hits but also a lot of new material, I'd be much more happy with it. If he also hadn't basically told fans for two years that D'arcy would likely be in, that would help too. He basically did not deliver on the promise he'd hyped for two years. That's why it just rubs me the wrong way that it's being pushed as a reunion when it isn't, the basis of the marketing campaign is basically a lie. Billy and Jimmy posting the old music videos especially (which prominently feature D'arcy) really highlight this, and the Siamese Dream cover girls reuniting. That's nice and all, but why isn't the band back together?

If D'arcy was dead or totally fucked up on drugs and couldn't be bothered to play or something obviously it would be understandable, but she's alive and badly wanted to be part of it.

GNR are able to get away with no press because they're 10X as big as the Pumpkins. Axl and Slash are two of the most famous icons in rock history, you could easily put them in the top 20. Billy Corgan and James Iha are not Axl and Slash.

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Old 05-07-2018, 10:56 PM   #11
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Originally Posted by redbreegull View Post
Billy Corgan is basically the king of overpromising and underdelivering.
He talked about D'arcy for two years, as recently as November he said on Howard Stern and Joe Rogan he was getting along great with her, and constantly talked about wanting an original lineup reunion, dating back to those Facebook videos in 2016 about being 'happy I have my friend back.'

He also said the personal family relationship of the members was more important than any business of a reunion tour (he even said that before reuniting with James), that ended up being a lie too as the falling out was over business. He also said he had no interest in continuing under the Smashing Pumpkins name if it wasn't the original lineup. I'd much rather they only reunited (the entire original lineup) for a few select performances and get along on a personal level than what is happening now. Peace and a happy ending is what this was supposed to be about, not a big cash grab tour where one member got kicked to the curb.

 
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Old 05-07-2018, 11:15 PM   #12
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GNR are able to get away with no press because they're 10X as big as the Pumpkins. Axl and Slash are two of the most famous icons in rock history, you could easily put them in the top 20. Billy Corgan and James Iha are not Axl and Slash.
Exactly. And Axl has always been reclusive and almost NEVER does press and Slash is about as low-key a guy as there is too, so it really wasn't weird that they weren't out promoting the tour. But for the Pumpkins to do merely 1 newspaper article before what is supposed to be a massive reunion tour? I just don't see the sense in that. Do the members feel that begrudgingly about the whole thing that they can't even put on a happy face? They should be out there spreading the word, doing their best to get fans excited.

But yeah, the way they've executed this reunion has definitely been a bit of a buzz-kill. I'd be stoked if Iha was back and they just went on with their business, but to plan a massive overpriced cash-grab oldies tour on the back of a return of Iha? It's pretty much the only execution they could do to make me not excited

 
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Old 05-07-2018, 11:20 PM   #13
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Not true. The first tours back by STP and Soundgarden sold like gangbusters... It wasn't until their 2nd and 3rd go-round in the same markets that ticket sales fledged.
SG were opening for NIN on their reunion tour.

 
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Old 05-07-2018, 11:23 PM   #14
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He talked about D'arcy for two years, as recently as November he said on Howard Stern and Joe Rogan he was getting along great with her, and constantly talked about wanting an original lineup reunion, dating back to those Facebook videos in 2016 about being 'happy I have my friend back.'

He also said the personal family relationship of the members was more important than any business of a reunion tour (he even said that before reuniting with James), that ended up being a lie too as the falling out was over business. He also said he had no interest in continuing under the Smashing Pumpkins name if it wasn't the original lineup. I'd much rather they only reunited (the entire original lineup) for a few select performances and get along on a personal level than what is happening now. Peace and a happy ending is what this was supposed to be about, not a big cash grab tour where one member got kicked to the curb.
I don't understand why they didn't try out something like the Arising Tour again, just to see how it went and how the chemistry was. If that all went like gangbusters, then it would be easy to subsequently plan for a big tour.

I don't know about anyone else, but the execution of this tour just feels desperate. As if they really needed the money and didn't have time to fuck around by growing organically again.

 
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Old 05-07-2018, 11:27 PM   #15
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SG were opening for NIN on their reunion tour.
They were co-headliners. There's a difference.

Soundedgarden just seemed excited about the bill. I don't think it was a desperation move or however you're implying. Smashing Pumpkins were a MUCH more popular band than Soundgarden though... Nonetheless, the media created a much bigger buzz for their return than they have with the Pumpkins who have created none.

Stone Temple Pilots I guess would be the better example as they were landing magazine covers and sold out the big arenas on their first North American tour back.

 
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Old 05-07-2018, 11:33 PM   #16
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SG were opening for NIN on their reunion tour.
That was 2014, their reunion tour was 2010-2011. On their 2011 North American tour I saw them headline the LA Forum.

 
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Old 05-07-2018, 11:37 PM   #17
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I don't understand why they didn't try out something like the Arising Tour again, just to see how it went and how the chemistry was. If that all went like gangbusters, then it would be easy to subsequently plan for a big tour.

I don't know about anyone else, but the execution of this tour just feels desperate. As if they really needed the money and didn't have time to fuck around by growing organically again.
Soundgarden kicked off their reunion with a club show in their hometown at the Showbox in Seattle in April 2010. They then played Lollapalooza in August 2010 along with a club warm up show for that. That's all they did in 2010, in 2011 they started writing a new album and did a full scale North American tour.

The Pumpkins should have started their reunion with a Metro show in Chicago, and then seen how things went from there.

 
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Old 05-08-2018, 12:01 AM   #18
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That was 2014, their reunion tour was 2010-2011. On their 2011 North American tour I saw them headline the LA Forum.
Oh yeahhhhhhhhh! You're totally right... The NIN tour was their 2nd major go around wasn't it?

 
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Old 05-08-2018, 12:05 AM   #19
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Oh yeahhhhhhhhh! You're totally right... The NIN tour was their 2nd major go around wasn't it?
Third (King Animal tour in 2012/2013 was second), and last completed U.S. tour. They only did 12 shows in 2017 due to Cornell's death.

I know we bitch about Billy, but I'm very thankful he's still alive and kicking.

 
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Old 05-08-2018, 12:07 AM   #20
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The Pumpkins should have started their reunion with a Metro show in Chicago, and then seen how things went from there.
I don't think they were interested in doing an integrity based project though. I think the whole purpose was to simply cash in as much as possible. They were amazed by the success GNR had with their half-measure reunion and figured that if they could get even a quarter of that success that they'd be laughing all the way to the bank.

It looked like D'arcy had actually suggested going the club route in those texts and Billy snaps that he has no interest in that and that he wants to play arenas... So I mean, it was a little disheartening to see behind the curtain and see what the guys real intentions are. The guy who always rallies against selling out is actually just a big sellout. Everyone was already aware of that here though

 
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Old 05-08-2018, 12:14 AM   #21
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I don't think they were interested in doing an integrity based project though. I think the whole purpose was to simply cash in as much as possible. They were amazed by the success GNR had with their half-measure reunion and figured that if they could get even a quarter of that success that they'd be laughing all the way to the bank.

It looked like D'arcy had actually suggested going the club route in those texts and Billy snaps that he has no interest in that and that he wants to play arenas... So I mean, it was a little disheartening to see behind the curtain and see what the guys real intentions are. The guy who always rallies against selling out is actually just a big sellout. Everyone was already aware of that here though
I don't remember seeing any texts about clubs, but knowing D'arcy, she probably would have been into it. Don't get me wrong I'm sure she would have enjoyed getting the money too, but this was about more than just that to her.

The thing is that going the integrity based route with the entire OG lineup probably would have led to more money than the cash grab route ironically, because they could have actually truly healed the pain from the past and built a new relationship to do more in the future, and actually moved forward with everyone involved (more $$$).

 
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Old 05-08-2018, 12:20 AM   #22
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I've said it before, but as a fan of Billy he was so damn close to just totally nailing a perfect career for himself in his 50's, that's what makes this so disappointing, because I've always been rooting for the guy. He seemed on the brink of having the original Pumpkins lineup back along with a nice respectable solo acoustic career, with every feud he'd had with an important collaborator in his career finally being resolved and having peace. He's still an important surviving voice of his generation, but there isn't peace unfortunately.

 
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Old 05-08-2018, 12:54 AM   #23
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it's not a reunion. it's getting as much publicity as it deserves

 
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Old 05-08-2018, 01:26 AM   #24
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Its not just that D'arcy's missing. Its that "The Smashing Pumpkins" have been an active band for the last 10 years, so they don't have that mysterious/exciting "what is this going to be like, will billy bring his A game, will they pick up where they left off in the 90's, are we going to get another classic album?" aura about them anymore. All those hopes were flushed down the toilet years ago. The best fans can hope for is a competent live show of 90's songs, that's not very exciting. It's certainly no Twin Peaks revival.

 
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Old 05-08-2018, 01:36 AM   #25
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I don't mean to sound so negative. I'm genuinely happy that Billy James and Jimmy can share a stage again. But the A level band from 92-98 is never coming back and casual fans know it.

 
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Old 05-08-2018, 02:10 AM   #26
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Billy also preempted a lot of hype by spilling a lot of info beforehand in interviews and on instagram. There is a lot to be said for keeping quiet about these things and re-generating some mystique.
Exactly.

Remember how everyone lost their shit when James just all of a sudden turned up on stage with Billy back in 2016. There were no months and months of "Me and James are talking about and negotiating a situation in where he will be allowed on stage to perform several songs under the umbrella of The Smashing Pumpkins."

 
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Old 05-08-2018, 02:13 AM   #27
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The stars aligned perfectly for peace and a full reunion.
And don't forget...people LOVE a great comeback story.

To get a chance like that it VERY rare. Billy just had to take it.

 
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Old 05-08-2018, 02:14 AM   #28
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Billy also preempted a lot of hype by spilling a lot of info beforehand in interviews and on instagram. There is a lot to be said for keeping quiet about these things and re-generating some mystique.


 
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Old 05-08-2018, 02:19 AM   #29
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Even casual fans know now:

That their show will have A level broadway charme.
For overpriced tickets, in still half empty halls.
With an ugly feud between Billy and D'arcy, her not being involved again.

 
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Old 05-08-2018, 02:20 AM   #30
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Exactly.

Remember how everyone lost their shit when James just all of a sudden turned up on stage with Billy back in 2016. There were no months and months of "Me and James are talking about and negotiating a situation in where he will be allowed on stage to perform several songs under the umbrella of The Smashing Pumpkins."

And remember...D'Arcy said that this was the moment when she gave the comeback a real shot. She said something like 'if James can deal with Billy again, he might have really changed for the better this time'.
It was all about 'let's heal, let's repair our relationships'.



 
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