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Old 06-11-2016, 02:25 AM   #31
Funbags
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Originally Posted by Ram27 View Post
It annoys me how many people say that like it matters
Exactly. The reality is; Jeff is a paid sideman who Billy has never allowed to have an actual stake in the band. He has zero leverage. You don't know what guitar parts are his (if any), he doesn't speak for the band or appear in interviews, he doesn't have any songs of his own.

Billy has intentionally rebuilt SP so that he has 100% control in all situations. Want to write your own songs? Fired. Want to speak for the band? Fuck off. Want to call me out? Sued.

James had *songs* on SP releases. He had recognizable guitar contributions. He joked about Billy's personality in interviews to save face for him.

 
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Old 06-11-2016, 02:57 AM   #32
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what the fuk

 
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Old 06-11-2016, 04:17 AM   #33
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Caffeine, man.

 
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Old 06-11-2016, 08:28 AM   #34
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poor jeff

he should start is own band with james
it would be the most boring band ever.

 
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Old 06-11-2016, 09:05 AM   #35
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Originally Posted by Ram27 View Post
It annoys me how many people say that like it matters

The Pumpkins in that time have made 0 songs that have affected me even as much as fucking 'New Wave A to G' has
And how is that Jeff's fault again?

He rehearsed with Billy and Jimmy in 2006, but didn't contribute to Zeitgeist. He barely contributed to the studio version of Teargarden, on the other hand his live inputs made some of those songs at least half good. The Terminal 5 show is a good example of that: Check the live versions of Owata, As Rome Burns, Astral Planes, ASFAS, Freak, Tom Tom - even though they were not masterpieces, Jeff playing made them way more organic, while Billy ruined most of those songs with that crap synth music in the studio. That's why Oceania is a better album. That was when Billy was a bit more open to contributions since MCIS - of course, not on the same level.

You can bring Jonathan Melvoin back to life and back to the band, it won't change a thing. Billy is the one who needs some kind of creativity pills. And not only that, he also needs a good manager so that he won't quit/fuck with a project based on his blurred vision of what his/the public wants/needs.

 
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Old 06-11-2016, 09:11 AM   #36
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Owata - 2008



Owata - 2009



Owata - 2010



Owata - studio version (2011)


 
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Old 06-11-2016, 10:01 AM   #37
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Originally Posted by T&T View Post
poor jeff

he should start is own band with james
it would be the most boring band ever.
somewhere there's a thread where ppl argued that jeff, nicole and mike should start their own band.

The truth is that all three of them are probably in exactly the "bands" they should be in. #bearcubbin4life

 
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Old 06-11-2016, 11:29 AM   #38
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Originally Posted by Forgotten Child View Post
Owata - 2008

Owata - 2009

Owata - 2010

Owata - studio version (2011)
We'll just take your word for it, because nobody here is going to listen to "Owata" four times in a row to see your point demonstrated.

But seriously, the "fire Jeff!" people... there are Pumpkins songs with 50 guitar tracks, but three guitarists is too much? Lol.

Also, yeah, Jeff isn't the one shitting up the band. Corgan is responsible for everything.

 
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Old 06-11-2016, 01:24 PM   #39
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Originally Posted by Disco King View Post
We'll just take your word for it, because nobody here is going to listen to "Owata" four times in a row to see your point demonstrated.

But seriously, the "fire Jeff!" people... there are Pumpkins songs with 50 guitar tracks, but three guitarists is too much? Lol.

Also, yeah, Jeff isn't the one shitting up the band. Corgan is responsible for everything.
You should give the 2009 one a try. The best one hands down - it actually sounds like what Billy is trying to achieve: it has that familiar pumpkin sound, but in a fresh form. God, he should've made an album with those guys!

 
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Old 06-11-2016, 01:30 PM   #40
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I've never heard the song Owata but I wonder if Wata joining Sp.2 would help at all. I just don't know if they would put her on bass because she's a female or on the guitar because she's Chinese.

hmm

 
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Old 06-11-2016, 03:41 PM   #41
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I actually love the 2009 version. Fresh sound but still Pumpkins-y. Plus Jimmy's cool rimshot beat in the verses

 
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Old 06-11-2016, 06:09 PM   #42
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Originally Posted by Forgotten Child View Post
Owata - 2008



Owata - 2009



Owata - 2010



Owata - studio version (2011)

you forgot this one


 
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Old 06-12-2016, 11:23 AM   #43
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you forgot this one

That one is actually a better fit than the original video:


 
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Old 06-12-2016, 11:47 AM   #44
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i really liked owata until he got ahold of it in the studio.

 
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Old 06-12-2016, 04:05 PM   #45
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Originally Posted by scottytheoneand View Post
you forgot this one

It's gotta be a sad day in the Corganverse when it comes to light that his music sounds better as the soundtrack/backing track to My Little Pony cartoons than it does anywhere else.

 
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Old 06-12-2016, 04:09 PM   #46
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Originally Posted by Funbags View Post
Exactly. The reality is; Jeff is a paid sideman who Billy has never allowed to have an actual stake in the band. He has zero leverage. You don't know what guitar parts are his (if any), he doesn't speak for the band or appear in interviews, he doesn't have any songs of his own.

Billy has intentionally rebuilt SP so that he has 100% control in all situations. Want to write your own songs? Fired. Want to speak for the band? Fuck off. Want to call me out? Sued.

James had *songs* on SP releases. He had recognizable guitar contributions. He joked about Billy's personality in interviews to save face for him.
This is by far the most intelligent post I've ever read on here.

Rock fucking on Funbags. Rock fucking on.

 
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Old 06-12-2016, 05:37 PM   #47
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Ohwata always sucked and it was at that point that I started to realize things were on a downward trajectory. We had the recorded Superchrist (live version kicked ass), GLOW, FOL, American Gothic(rose march was a saving grace) and things were only regressing from Zeitgeist.

I think in hindsight JC probably left at the right time. The material was just really weak despite any brilliance that he brought to the table. The 2008 shows seemed to trend in the right direction but Corgan was still singing like a complete jack-ass so even songs like Bodies and Soma being reintroduced fell flat due to his performance.

When I think about it, it never did seem that Billy was happy about "reforming the band" he always just just seemed kinda sad and not into it... singing like a jackass. Too bad.

Last edited by fuzzyroes : 05-05-2018 at 10:06 PM.

 
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Old 06-12-2016, 05:41 PM   #48
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And then there was the record store day performance and it was like HOLY SHIT! Biily can still sing! and then he just went back to his old ways.

It's improved a bit on recent albums and tours though, so that's a good thing.

 
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Old 06-13-2016, 05:36 AM   #49
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Thumbs up

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Originally Posted by Jelly Blossom View Post
This is by far the most intelligent post I've ever read on here.

Rock fucking on Funbags. Rock fucking on.

 
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Old 06-13-2016, 02:35 PM   #50
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Caffeine, man.
i mean like what the fuck is this whole thread
especially the OP, get it together, you're exaggerating

 
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Old 06-13-2016, 03:11 PM   #51
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Originally Posted by redbreegull View Post
retain Jeff as a third guitarist. Hear classic Pumpkins tracks live with more guitars than ever before.
The logical thing to do would be to move Jeff to bass, but since he doesn't have a pair of tits that'll never happen.

 
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Old 06-13-2016, 08:03 PM   #52
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Originally Posted by Jelly Blossom View Post
The logical thing to do would be to move Jeff to bass, but since he doesn't have a pair of tits that'll never happen.
the logical thing to do would be to keep Jeff as a third guitarist since Jeff plays guitar

 
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Old 06-13-2016, 08:46 PM   #53
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The logical thing to do would be to dismiss Jeff entirely. There's no need for 3 guitars live in SP. SP was one of the absolute best live bands on the planet from 1991-1996. They got by with 2 guitarists just fine.

 
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Old 06-13-2016, 08:48 PM   #54
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living in the past

 
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Old 06-13-2016, 08:49 PM   #55
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seriously though it's been 16 years now since they've played together and even if it happened again it would be different. all y'all obsessed with the purity of JUST the original four on stage because it was GOOD ENOUGH THEN are going to be the ones who can't bring yourselves to enjoy this when it actually happens

it seems like you're all hoping for billy to gently wipe away the memory of sp2 from your drowsy little eyes but give me a fuckin break. Old SP is dead. Next it's gonna be that it can't be a true reunion if they play anything written after 2000. Jeff is a good guitarist. He plays with Billy well. Studio SP often has dozens of guitar tracks. I don't understand what awful thing you think would happen if Jeff stayed with the band so they could expand their guitar sound live. It's actually a great idea.

 
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Old 06-13-2016, 09:23 PM   #56
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Originally Posted by redbreegull View Post
living in the past
Exactly. I don't begrudge Billy of carrying on the SP name to whatever end. They're his songs and his dreams or whatever. But I honestly think the only way he ever releases good music again is without the SP name. Like a totally stripped down acoustic album or something. He's just too old and out of touch to make guitar rock music that's vital anymore.

 
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Old 06-13-2016, 09:23 PM   #57
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I agree with you that old SP is dead but Jeff also is not enjoyable to listen to at all. I'm talking live you can always hear him and his tone is shit

 
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Old 06-13-2016, 09:25 PM   #58
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So it's not that Corgan couldn't play with 2 other guitarists it's just that I would specifically want Jeff to be fired

 
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Old 06-13-2016, 09:41 PM   #59
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I just don't get the Jeff hate. He sounds good with Billy. I don't hear his tone or playing being awful.

 
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Old 06-13-2016, 10:29 PM   #60
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What are you talking about? He always plays with this lame u2 sounding delay effect when he noodles around aimlessly. Sounds lame as hell.

 
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