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Old 02-20-2019, 03:24 PM   #91
Elphenor
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bottom line is one of these folks is gonna be the nominee, and whoever it is is going to have some baggage and not be ideologically pure enough for whatever segment of the electorate

however anyone who does not cast a vote for this person, regardless of who it winds up being, is an abject moral failure, a cognitively stunted troglodyte, and should be drug out into the street at the crack of dawn and shot
I agree with this when it comes down to it

but at the very least "suck it up, it's not my job to inspire you" is poor politics

I don't want another campaign on not being Trump

 
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Old 02-20-2019, 04:01 PM   #92
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also hillary elected trump.
you mean the Russian government and white Americans' fascist tendencies?

 
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Old 02-20-2019, 04:47 PM   #93
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it looks like fascist tendencies exist everywhere and arise when the left doesn't provide a compelling alternative vision

 
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Old 02-20-2019, 04:53 PM   #94
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Can someone explain why they prefer sanders to warren?

 
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Old 02-20-2019, 06:03 PM   #95
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electability aside

I see Warren as someone who's coming from a very pro-capitalist angle, but wants to square the table again

where as Bernie formed at least part of his philosophy from living on a Kibbutz and (I suspect) is more sympathetic to post-capitalist ideologies

the difference in policy ends up being small and I think Warren is great, Bernie thinks Warren is great

but I have more faith in Bernie not compromising on Medicare for All, Living Wage, Free College, Green New Deal etc. because he's so ideological and has spent the majority of his life pushing versions of these things at this point

I would put his voting record up against any politician in the country for sure

 
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Old 02-20-2019, 09:26 PM   #96
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Originally Posted by Elphenor View Post
electability aside

I see Warren as someone who's coming from a very pro-capitalist angle, but wants to square the table again

where as Bernie formed at least part of his philosophy from living on a Kibbutz and (I suspect) is more sympathetic to post-capitalist ideologies

the difference in policy ends up being small and I think Warren is great, Bernie thinks Warren is great

but I have more faith in Bernie not compromising on Medicare for All, Living Wage, Free College, Green New Deal etc. because he's so ideological and has spent the majority of his life pushing versions of these things at this point

I would put his voting record up against any politician in the country for sure
Can you walk me through how any of the policies you mention end up being actual laws? Or how he even proposes to get there? They have the same goals and warren has actually told us how sheíd get there. Novel idea I know.

 
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Old 02-20-2019, 09:37 PM   #97
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The wealth tax is much more of a revolutionary idea to fund things than anything Bernie has ever offered.

 
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Old 02-21-2019, 07:47 AM   #98
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I became an anarchist
no you didn't

 
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Old 02-21-2019, 10:56 AM   #99
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To clarify I don’t think everything needs a pay for provision, but from a political standpoint it’s easier to say I will do x and this is how I will fund it than to just say I’m gonna do x

You know

 
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Old 02-21-2019, 01:33 PM   #100
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no you didn't
you caught me

 
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Old 02-21-2019, 01:41 PM   #101
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no one caught you. you just didn't.

 
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Old 02-21-2019, 01:47 PM   #102
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He's saying you caught that he didn't.


JESUS FUCK.

 
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Old 02-21-2019, 01:50 PM   #103
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i didn't catch him. he just didn't.

 
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Old 02-21-2019, 01:50 PM   #104
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i'm no gumshoe. it's just, like, no you didn't.

 
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Old 02-21-2019, 01:56 PM   #105
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i put my finest men on the case, my absolute finest men, and even they returned to me with the synopsis "we couldn't catch him, he just simply did not"

 
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Old 02-21-2019, 02:05 PM   #106
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I think electability is more important than the minor policy and career trajectory differences between the two most left-leaning candidates. we should be thinking about it in terms of how Bernie and Warren can influence the platform and style of a more electable ultimate nominee. And how they can support that person.

I just don’t see either winning. Or being the best candidate to beat Trump, who has a good chance of being reelected.

 
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Old 02-21-2019, 02:13 PM   #107
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I don't think the more establishment candidates are necessarily more electable right now

maybe Biden?

 
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Old 02-21-2019, 02:15 PM   #108
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Originally Posted by Elphenor View Post
electability aside

I see Warren as someone who's coming from a very pro-capitalist angle, but wants to square the table again

where as Bernie formed at least part of his philosophy from living on a Kibbutz and (I suspect) is more sympathetic to post-capitalist ideologies

the difference in policy ends up being small and I think Warren is great, Bernie thinks Warren is great

but I have more faith in Bernie not compromising on Medicare for All, Living Wage, Free College, Green New Deal etc. because he's so ideological and has spent the majority of his life pushing versions of these things at this point

I would put his voting record up against any politician in the country for sure
As far as I know, nobody in Washington wants to reappropriate property from the capitalists and transfer ownership of it to all of society. Even the leftmost mainstream U.S. politicians are capitalists. Bernie Sanders is a capitalist. He's a capitalist who wants reforms on the system so that there can be regulations and a social safety net, like every developed Western capitalist nation besides the United States already has. He's no less capitalist than Justin Trudeau or Jacinda Ardern.

 
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Old 02-21-2019, 02:17 PM   #109
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he's a capitalist for sure

but he's more sympathetic to socialist ideas being that he's more from the 60's hippy left era

 
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Old 02-21-2019, 02:22 PM   #110
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though I do dislike that he referred to himself as a Democratic Socialist because he's clearly not that

and now it's caught on with like AOC who misused it too

more like social democrat

 
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Old 02-21-2019, 10:05 PM   #111
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were all capitalists. there is no american that is not a capitalist. the term capitalist is not useful.

also all potential presidential candidates should be constitutionally required to release tit and/or dick pics

 
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Old 02-21-2019, 10:41 PM   #112
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I feel like capitalist and socialist are not necessarily mutually exclusive? Is that wrong?

 
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Old 02-22-2019, 09:36 AM   #113
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were all capitalists. there is no american that is not a capitalist. the term capitalist is not useful.

also all potential presidential candidates should be constitutionally required to release tit and/or dick pics
not necessarily?

Chomsky and anarcho-syndacalist ideologies for example

I'm personally not married to capitalism in anyway, it just happens to be the system we inhabit and anything beyond it is more thought experiment than anything

 
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Old 02-22-2019, 09:41 AM   #114
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I feel like capitalist and socialist are not necessarily mutually exclusive? Is that wrong?
as far as I understand until you remove capitalists by democratizing the means of production it's still just capitalism with some social welfare

 
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Old 02-22-2019, 10:27 AM   #115
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Can you walk me through how any of the policies you mention end up being actual laws? Or how he even proposes to get there? They have the same goals and warren has actually told us how she’d get there. Novel idea I know.
do you mean how he gets the votes?

cramming it through with a Democratic majority is the only way anyone is getting anything done beyond executive orders as far as I see it

I suppose it could leave a lot of potential democratic voters dejected for years if Democrats never get a supermajority and Bernie can't deliver

he's already authored, for example, a Medicare for All Bill as far as how the policies are meant to work

 
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Old 06-24-2019, 08:40 PM   #116
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warren is doing better than i thought she would. i think itll be her rather than bernie in the progressive lane as the race wears on. i think bernie's moment has passed.

what yall think about their college loan plans? i think they suck.

 
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Old 06-24-2019, 09:29 PM   #117
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Fucken biden

Godamit, ya fucken dummy

 
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Old 06-25-2019, 07:41 AM   #118
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Most voters are dilettantes and will be voting for a candidate based solely off of name recognition. My hopeless expectation is Joe Biden. Same reason we got stuck with Hillary Clinton. At least people like Bernie Sanders moved the party forward.

But Bernie’s time passed. I’m not sure he’s still the best candidate. Being able to win is a leadership quality and an important part of a candidate’s value. If he didn’t beat Hillary Clinton, he doesn’t have enough mass appeal to beat Trump.

 
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Old 06-25-2019, 12:13 PM   #119
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I don't think Biden is going to win the primary. Old dems are attracted to his aura of normality and the promise of a "return to normal," but once he's forced out of hiding and onto the stump everyone will be quickly reminded what a clueless and bizarre public speaker/figure he is. He got crushed the two other times he ran for a reason. Except now he's like three hundred years old to boot.

 
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Old 06-25-2019, 10:21 PM   #120
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i think i like pete buttigieg the best, despite/because he's getting reamed by a bunch of black indiana women right now

 
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