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Old 08-04-2011, 02:22 PM   #361
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Originally Posted by Trotskilicious View Post
our entire culture is that, relentless and unrealistic positivity, no real self-assessment, dismissal and isolation of realists as "downers", etc
This makes me think of an essay I read by Forster in which he muses that liberalism is always at an intrinsic disadvantage because its fundamental premise is "question everything" or "everything is uncertain," whereas conservatism just asks people to have faith. In this way, conservatism is like religion or myth because it appeals to our irrational but very human desire to pack all our fears and cognitive dissonances away by investing our minds in absolutes and immutabilities.

 
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Old 08-04-2011, 06:27 PM   #362
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What about those damn liberals helping poor people with tax breaks and homeless shelters and welfare? Isn't that irrational?

 
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Old 08-04-2011, 06:42 PM   #363
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Originally Posted by redbreegull View Post
This makes me think of an essay I read by Forster in which he muses that liberalism is always at an intrinsic disadvantage because its fundamental premise is "question everything" or "everything is uncertain," whereas conservatism just asks people to have faith. In this way, conservatism is like religion or myth because it appeals to our irrational but very human desire to pack all our fears and cognitive dissonances away by investing our minds in absolutes and immutabilities.
I never meant to say that the Conservatives are generally stupid. I meant to say that stupid people are generally Conservative. I believe that is so obviously and universally admitted a principle that I hardly think any gentleman will deny it.
-JSM

 
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Old 08-04-2011, 06:45 PM   #364
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del

 
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Old 08-04-2011, 06:46 PM   #365
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del

already a thread about it

 
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Old 08-04-2011, 07:04 PM   #366
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http://o.onionstatic.com/images/arti...pscale_q85.jpg

http://www.theonion.com/articles/dru...hborhoo,21059/

 
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Old 08-04-2011, 07:45 PM   #367
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Originally Posted by Order 66 View Post

tank the economy in '11. blame obongo in '12
http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_0zcJ-1bZHq...1276628020.jpg

 
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Old 08-04-2011, 08:11 PM   #368
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that gives the teaparty too much credit

 
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Old 08-04-2011, 08:34 PM   #369
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but it is bush's fault

 
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Old 08-04-2011, 08:35 PM   #370
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WHY IS THIS COUNTRY SO FUCKING STUPID

 
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Old 08-04-2011, 08:36 PM   #371
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Quote:
Originally Posted by redbreegull View Post
This makes me think of an essay I read by Forster in which he muses that liberalism is always at an intrinsic disadvantage because its fundamental premise is "question everything" or "everything is uncertain," whereas conservatism just asks people to have faith. In this way, conservatism is like religion or myth because it appeals to our irrational but very human desire to pack all our fears and cognitive dissonances away by investing our minds in absolutes and immutabilities.
I think that's a point but "independents" are who run this country really, it's why everything is mushy middle of the road mediocrity because the politicians are trying to cater to people who don't even think. Most people don't pay any attention to the news because it "brings them down" and it's "depressing" which is why we have infographics like the bullshit tchocky posted because everyone forgot that the entire deficit "problem" is entirely George W. Bush's fault. I'm consistently amazed how people would rather just live in a permanent state of denial and purposefully deny themselves information because it's gonna make them sad. America is useless at this point.

we went from surplus and paying the ENTIRE DEBT OFF by 2009 to TWO WARS, MONSTER DEFICIT AND ECONOMIC SLOW DOWN

but no it's "Obama's deficit" blah blah blah

 
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Old 08-04-2011, 08:40 PM   #372
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nimrod's Son View Post
aren't you generation Y young man
yes but i was blessed with mild to moderate depression which makes me more realistic than my "sunshine & positivity!" peers and possibly a strong leader

 
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Old 08-04-2011, 08:41 PM   #373
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Originally Posted by sppunk View Post
Well the new tanking is thanks to Italy. The fucking EU is going to cause a complete worldwide collapse before America. Boo!
no it's not dude, this started a week ago

i like how you try and justify it to not implicate your idiotic beliefs that have already failed.

 
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Old 08-04-2011, 09:14 PM   #374
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Originally Posted by Trotskilicious View Post
I think that's a point but "independents" are who run this country really, it's why everything is mushy middle of the road mediocrity because the politicians are trying to cater to people who don't even think. Most people don't pay any attention to the news because it "brings them down" and it's "depressing" which is why we have infographics like the bullshit tchocky posted because everyone forgot that the entire deficit "problem" is entirely George W. Bush's fault. I'm consistently amazed how people would rather just live in a permanent state of denial and purposefully deny themselves information because it's gonna make them sad. America is useless at this point.

we went from surplus and paying the ENTIRE DEBT OFF by 2009 to TWO WARS, MONSTER DEFICIT AND ECONOMIC SLOW DOWN

but no it's "Obama's deficit" blah blah blah
yeah I agree with this 100%

 
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Old 08-04-2011, 09:16 PM   #375
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god damn so fucking frustrating

The UK and Germany both implemented austerity policies in reaction to the recession and the result was a double dip... somehow our retarded country completely overlooked the failure of these policies and now we are about to ride the double dip like its the hottest fucking rollercoaster in the park.

oriahgawof ijwoi;jr;oijiojoie;ioj oijioj

 
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Old 08-04-2011, 09:21 PM   #376
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Originally Posted by Trotskilicious View Post
no it's not dude, this started a week ago

i like how you try and justify it to not implicate your idiotic beliefs that have already failed.
Today's drop specifically was based on Japan and Italy's failing-much-faster-and-worse than the U.S. economy. Italy is a major EU player, so it'll have a much larger effect (see: today) than Greece's issues have had.

The market's been down the rest of the time because the job outlook is getting worse and the "recovery" is turning out to have possibly just been a blip.

 
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Old 08-04-2011, 09:26 PM   #377
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Trotskilicious View Post
we went from surplus and paying the ENTIRE DEBT OFF by 2009 to TWO WARS, MONSTER DEFICIT AND ECONOMIC SLOW DOWN

but no it's "Obama's deficit" blah blah blah
Well said.

 
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Old 08-04-2011, 09:39 PM   #378
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Originally Posted by Trotskilicious View Post
but it is bush's fault
i was talking about order66

 
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Old 08-04-2011, 09:59 PM   #379
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i'm the talk of the town!

 
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Old 08-05-2011, 09:37 AM   #380
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Cutting spending during a recession. FDR did it during his second term and it tanked the economy.

July employment numbers will be out today, i think.

Welcome to the double dip recession, courtesy of The Teabaggers and not guts Obama.

 
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Old 08-05-2011, 01:45 PM   #381
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Originally Posted by scottytheoneand View Post
July employment numbers will be out today, i think.
117k. not so bad

 
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Old 08-05-2011, 01:53 PM   #382
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it's not about race btw

http://cloudfront.mediamatters.org/s.../hiphopbbq.JPG

 
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Old 08-05-2011, 02:58 PM   #383
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Disgusting.

 
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Old 08-05-2011, 09:51 PM   #384
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Quote:
originally posted by Debaser:

Being ignorant of Sitchen is a compliment.


Zecharia Sitchin (July 11, 1920 – October 9, 2010[1]) was a Azerbaijani-born American author of books promoting an explanation for human origins involving ancient astronauts. Sitchin attributes the creation of the ancient Sumerian culture to the Anunnaki, which he states was a race of extra-terrestrials from a planet beyond Neptune called Nibiru. He believed this hypothetical planet of Nibiru to be in an elongated, elliptical orbit in the Earth's own Solar System, asserting that Sumerian mythology reflects this view. Sitchin's books have sold millions of copies worldwide and have been translated into more than 25 languages.

Sitchin's hypotheses are not accepted by scientists and academics, who dismiss his work as pseudoscience and pseudohistory. Sitchin's work has been criticized for flawed methodology and mistranslations of ancient texts as well as for incorrect astronomical and scientific claims.

Quote:
originally posted by Tchocky:

Sorry, I don't believe self-important cranks who think that ancient society was founded by alien astronauts looking for gold that came from a planet that has yet to be scientifically proven to exist, whose only "evidence" to support his claims comes from bad science and laughably inaccurate mistranslations of ancient writings.

When either of you become one of only 200 people on the planet able to read and translate Sumerian text and write a series of books in detailed analysis, get back to me. Credentialed Academics are often beholden to the Rockefeller controlled education system which actively suppresses many claims that would upset their paradigm through the grant process. You don't play ball in the paradigm, you don't get funded. And if someone is out there even stumbling onto the truth, the mode of personal and professional assassination of said renegade is the establishments standard m.o.

He's not the only scholar who has studied Sumerian history that claims humans were created to mine Gold, just the most outspoken.

 
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Old 08-05-2011, 09:52 PM   #385
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Fix is in (as always)...



Capitulation Redux Or August 2010 Deja Vu: Goldman Downgrades US Economy, Sees One In Three Risk Of Recession, Expects Some QE3 Announcement Next Week




http://www.zerohedge.com/news/capitu...three-risk-rec

 
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Old 08-05-2011, 09:52 PM   #386
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Order 66 View Post
WE AREN'T RACISTS THOUGH REMEMBER DEMOCRATS ARE THE REAL RACISTS!!!!

 
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Old 08-05-2011, 09:53 PM   #387
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Omega Concern View Post
When either of you become one of only 200 people on the planet able to read and translate Sumerian text and write a series of books in detailed analysis, get back to me. Credentialed Academics are often beholden to the Rockefeller controlled education system which actively suppresses many claims that would upset their paradigm through the grant process. You don't play ball in the paradigm, you don't get funded. And if someone is out there even stumbling onto the truth, the mode of personal and professional assassination of said renegade is the establishments standard m.o.

He's not the only scholar who has studied Sumerian history that claims humans were created to mine Gold, just the most outspoken.
dude do you know how ludicrous this statement is

you're saying humans were engineered by aliens to mine gold to power their ships. You aren't this fucking stupid are you???

 
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Old 08-06-2011, 01:55 AM   #388
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Originally Posted by The Omega Concern View Post
When either of you become one of only 200 people on the planet able to read and translate Sumerian text and write a series of books in detailed analysis, get back to me.
The exact same sentiment applies to you as well you incredibly gullible, moron.

 
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Old 08-06-2011, 02:06 AM   #389
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Criticism of Sitchin's work falls primarily into three categories: 1) translations and interpretations of ancient texts, 2) astronomical and scientific observations, and 3) literalism of myth.

Translations and Interpretations


When Sitchin wrote his books only specialists could read the Sumerian language, but sources such as the 2006 book Sumerian Lexicon, have made the language more accessible to non-experts. Ancient language scholar Michael S. Heiser, states that he has found many inaccuracies in Sitchin's translations and challenges interested parties to use this book to check their validity. Prof. Ronald H. Fritze, author of the book Invented Knowledge: False History, Fake Science and Pseudo-religions, mentions the example of Sitchin's claim that the Sumerian sign Din-Gir means "pure ones of the blazing rockets", adding that "Sitchin's assignment of meanings to ancient words is tendentious and frequently strained." Fritze also commented on Sitchin's methodology, writing that "When critics have checked Sitchin's references, they have found that he frequently quotes out of context or truncates his quotes in a way that distorts evidence in order to prove his contentions. Evidence is presented selectively and contradictory evidence is ignored."

Sitchin bases his arguments on his personal interpretations of pre-Nubian and Sumerian texts, and the seal VA 243. Sitchin wrote that these ancient civilizations knew of a twelfth planet, when in fact they only knew five. Hundreds of Sumerian astronomical seals and calendars have been decoded and recorded, and the total count of planets on each seal has been five. Seal VA 243 has 12 dots that Sitchin identifies as planets. When translated, seal VA 243 reads "You're his Servant" which is now thought to be a message from a nobleman to a servant. According to semitologist Michael S. Heiser, the so-called sun on Seal VA 243 is not the Sumerian symbol for the sun but is a star, and the dots are also stars. The symbol on seal VA 243 has no resemblance to the hundreds of documented Sumerian sun symbols.

In a 1979 review of The Twelfth Planet, Roger W. Wescott, Prof. of Anthropology and Linguistics at Drew University, Madison, New Jersey, noted Sitchin's amateurishness with respect to the primacy of the Sumerian language:

Sitchin's linguistics seems at least as amateurish as his anthropology, biology, and astronomy. On p. 370, for example, he maintains that "all the ancient languages . . . including early Chinese . . . stemmed from one primeval source -- Sumerian". Sumerian, of course, is the virtual archetype of what linguistic taxonomists call a language-isolate, meaning a language that does not fall into any of the well-known language-families or exhibit clear cognation with any known language. Even if Sitchin is referring to written rather than to spoken language, it is unlikely that his contention can be persuasively defended, since Sumerian ideograms were preceded by the Azilian and Tartarian signaries of Europe as well as by a variety of script-like notational systems between the Nile and Indus rivers.


Astronomical and scientific observations


Sitchin's "planetary collision" view does superficially resemble a theory by modern astronomers—the giant impact theory of the Moon's formation about 4.5 billion years ago by a body impacting with the newly-formed Earth. However, Sitchin's proposed series of rogue planetary collisions differ in both details and timing. As with Immanuel Velikovsky's earlier Worlds in Collision thesis, Sitchin states that he has found evidence of ancient human knowledge of rogue celestial motions in a variety of mythological accounts. In Velikovsky's case, these interplanetary collisions were supposed to have taken place within the span of human existence, whereas for Sitchin these occurred during the early stages of planetary formation, but entered the mythological account passed down via the alien race which purportedly evolved on Nibiru after these encounters.

While Sitchin's scenario for the creation of the Solar System is hard to reconcile with the Earth's current small orbital eccentricity of only 0.0167, Sitchin's supporters maintain that it would explain much of Earth's peculiar early geography due to cleaving from the celestial collision, i.e., solid continents on one side and a giant ocean on the other.

According to former Immanuel Velikovsky assistant turned prolific critic, C. Leroy Ellenberger, "[Sitchin states that] from an equal start, the Nefilim evolved on Nibiru 45 million years ahead of comparable development on Earth with its decidedly more favorable environment. Such an outcome is unlikely, to say the least, since Nibiru would spend over 99% of its time beyond Pluto. Sitchin's explanation that heat from radioactive decay and a thick atmosphere keep Nibiru warm is absurd and does not address the problem of darkness in deep space. Also unexplained is how the Nefilim, who evolved long after Nibiru arrived, knew what happened when Nibiru first entered the solar system."

The scenario outlined by Sitchin, with Nibiru returning to the inner solar system regularly every 3,600 years,

. . . implies an orbit with a semi-major axis of 235 astronomical units, extending from the asteroid belt to twelve times farther beyond the sun than Pluto. Elementary perturbation theory indicates that, under the most favorable circumstances of avoiding close encounters with other planets, no body with such an eccentric orbit would keep the same period for two consecutive passages. Within twelve orbits the object would be either ejected or converted to a short period object. Thus, the failed search for a trans-Plutonian planet by T.C. Van Flandern, of the U.S. Naval Observatory, which Sitchin uses to bolster his thesis, is no support at all.

Sitchin in “the case of Adam’s alien genes” states that 223 unique genes found by the Human Genome Sequencing Consortium are without the required predecessors on the genomic evolutionary tree. Later researchers have argued that the conclusion from the Human Genome Sequencing Consortium cannot be drawn due to a lack of a comprehensive gene database for comparison. An analysis by Salzberg identified 40 potential genes laterally transferred into the genome from prokaryotic organisms. Salzberg also argues that gene loss combined with sample size effects and evolutionary rate variation provide an alternative, more biologically plausible explanation.


Literalism of myth

Peter James, co-author of the controversial book Centuries of Darkness,[30] has criticized Sitchin both for ignoring the world outside of Mesopotamia and more specifically for misunderstanding Babylonian literature:

He uses the Epic of Creation Enuma Elish as the foundation for his cosmogony, identifying the young god Marduk, who overthrows the older regime of gods and creates the Earth, as the unknown "Twelfth Planet". In order to do as he interprets the Babylonian theogony as a factual account of the birth of the other "eleven" planets. The Babylonian names for the planets are established beyond a shadow of a doubt—Ishtar was the deity of Venus, Nergal of Mars, and Marduk of Jupiter—and confirmed by hundreds of astronomical/astrological tables and treatises on clay tablets and papyri from the Hellenistic period. Sitchin merrily ignores all this and assigns unwarranted planetary identities to the gods mentioned in the theogony. For example, Apsu, attested as god of the primeval waters, becomes, of all things, the Sun! Ea, as it suits Sitchin, is sometimes planet Neptune and sometimes a spaceman. And the identity of Ishtar as the planet Venus, a central feature of Mesopotamian religion, is nowhere mentioned in the book—instead Sitchin arbitrarily assigns to Venus another deity from Enuma Elish, and reserves Ishtar for a role as a female astronaut.

William Irwin Thompson comments on what he calls Sitchin's 'literalism':

What Sitchin sees is what he needs for his hypothesis. So figure 15 on page 42 is radiation therapy, and figure 71 on page 136 is a god inside a rocket-shaped chamber. If these are gods, why are they stuck with our cheap B movie technology of rockets, microphones, space-suits, and radiation therapy? If they are gods, then why can't they have some really divine technology such as intradimensional worm-hole travel, antigravity, starlight propulsion, or black hole bounce rematerializations? Sitchin has constructed what appears to be a convincing argument, but when he gets close to single images on ancient tablets, he falls back into the literalism of "Here is an image of the gods in rockets." Suddenly, ancient Sumer is made to look like the movie set for Destination Moon. Erich Von Däniken's potboiler Chariots of the Gods has the same problem. The plain of Nazca in Peru is turned into a World War II landing strip. The gods can cross galactic distances, but by the time they get to Peru, their spaceships are imagined as World War II prop jobs that need an enormous landing strip. This literalization of the imagination doesn't make any sense, but every time it doesn't, you hear Sitchin say "There can be no doubt, but..."

 
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Old 08-07-2011, 01:42 PM   #390
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I never meant to say that the Conservatives are generally stupid. I meant to say that stupid people are generally Conservative. I believe that is so obviously and universally admitted a principle that I hardly think any gentleman will deny it.
-JSM
i always liked this one better:

That the only purpose for which power can be rightfully exercised over any member of a civilized community, against his will, is to prevent harm to others. His own good, either physical or moral, is not a sufficient warrant. He cannot rightfully be compelled to do or forbear because it will be better for him to do so, because it will make him happier, because, in the opinions of others, to do so would be wise, or even right. These are good reasons for remonstrating with him, or reasoning with him, or persuading him or entreating him, but not for compelling him, or visiting him with any evil, in case he do otherwise. To justify that, the conduct from which it is desired to deter him must be calculated to produce evil to some one else. The only part of the conduct of any one, for which he is amenable to society, is that which concerns others. In the part which merely concerns himself, his independence is, of right, absolute. Over himself, over his own body and mind, the individual is sovereign.

 
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