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Old 04-25-2018, 05:13 AM   #61
FoolofaTook
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Originally Posted by houseofglass11 View Post
took's getting way too interested in SP again. boris my man, boris.
i listened to dear yesterday. i never listen to tsp.

all is well.

 
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Old 04-25-2018, 01:29 PM   #62
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The thing he's best at as a musician is something that, at the end of the day, has very little value in 2018 at least in a commercial way. If he'd make a 10/10 classic sounding SP album now, it would have a very limited audience consisting of mostly old fans.
So instead he makes shitty albums that almost no one likes...? I really hate Billy's flawed logic sometimes. "I could make a great album, but no one would like it, so here's some more crap"

 
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Old 04-26-2018, 12:57 AM   #63
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There is also the acoustic Viper Room performance.

 
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Old 04-26-2018, 03:25 AM   #64
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LMGTWTY is way better than Crestfallen. It probably would have helped Adore ease into the market a bit.

 
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Old 04-26-2018, 03:29 AM   #65
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The problem with Adore is that it's a beautiful and transcending album, but only in the context of the entire thing. One single doesn't really tell you what the album is going to sound like, and that can sometimes be really confusing from a commercial standpoint.

In the case of Mellon Collie, BWBW reflected teenage angst, hard riffs and alternative hooks. All elements heavily featured on the album. On Siamese Dream;Cherub Rock reflected typical SD grooves from Chamberlin, fuzz-candy and really glossy production.

 
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Old 04-26-2018, 04:54 AM   #66
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There's no way this version of the song could have saved Adore commercially (or whatever Billy is claiming). It might have worked better as a song if they'd given it the full Adore treatment. Even then, Ava Adore is way stronger.
This, this, a thousand times, this. LMGTWTY barely has a chorus. The verses are great, but the chorus is an early sign of the lazy songwriting Billy would embrace later in his career.

 
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Old 04-26-2018, 05:22 AM   #67
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Assuming the version of LMGTWTY we got is the actual, real, final version that would've been the single I think he's not being completely honest with that story.

Quote:
The thing he's best at as a musician is something that, at the end of the day, has very little value in 2018 at least in a commercial way. If he'd make a 10/10 classic sounding SP album now, it would have a very limited audience consisting of mostly old fans.
It'd have a limited audience because he's spent the last decade+ releasing absolute shit and burning bridges. He's not capable of releasing a 10/10 album, he's lost it.

 
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Old 04-26-2018, 05:51 AM   #68
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Originally Posted by PuzzledMuzzle View Post
The problem with Adore is that it's a beautiful and transcending album, but only in the context of the entire thing. One single doesn't really tell you what the album is going to sound like, and that can sometimes be really confusing from a commercial standpoint.

In the case of Mellon Collie, BWBW reflected teenage angst, hard riffs and alternative hooks. All elements heavily featured on the album. On Siamese Dream;Cherub Rock reflected typical SD grooves from Chamberlin, fuzz-candy and really glossy production.
This is very true and very well observed. Adore is an entire piece of work, a suite of songs that work together and only those songs would work together. LMGTWTY or any of the other outtakes wouldn't have fitted.

It does make sense somewhat logically then if it was tacked on the end, as then it wouldn't upset the flow. What they probably should've done was released Adore and then followed it up with an EP featuring LMGTWTY and some other outtakes, to help push them commercially.

Today was the real reflection of SD - the groove, the loud/quiet, the dreamy soft sound of the verses and harder fuzzy choruses, and the quality of the songwriting. All this was developed further on SD.

Of the singles, BWBW and Thirty Three are the two that sum up MC - hard guitars and then softer material sitting side by side.

 
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Old 04-26-2018, 06:01 AM   #69
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1979 was an outlier, and his biggest hit. even TT is over the top with orchestral embellishments that barley compares to disarm or any other track on MCIS. having singles that don't represent the album isn't something out of place.

 
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Old 04-26-2018, 07:18 AM   #70
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LMGTWTY would not have saved Adore. At least not the Rick Rubin demo. Too quiet, slow and long.

The album needed to be shorter. Crestfallen, Tear, OUAT, Shame, Annie Dog shouldn’t have made the cut. LMGTWTY should have.

 
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Old 04-26-2018, 08:01 AM   #71
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At the end of the day, it's a good thing they never released the Rick Rubin version as part of Adore, because if they had, they never would have recorded the final and best version for Machina II.

 
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Old 04-26-2018, 09:04 AM   #72
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1979 was an outlier, and his biggest hit. even TT is over the top with orchestral embellishments that barley compares to disarm or any other track on MCIS. having singles that don't represent the album isn't something out of place.
True, but for me TT is of a style along with Cupid De Locke, Beautiful, Lily, Take Me Down, Farewell & Goodnight, and the title track. That sort of gothic, creepy Victorian aesthetic. Those songs sound like the cover art.

 
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Old 04-26-2018, 11:12 AM   #73
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1979 was an outlier, and his biggest hit. even TT is over the top with orchestral embellishments that barley compares to disarm or any other track on MCIS. having singles that don't represent the album isn't something out of place.
You missed the point completely. Tonight Tonight is still very much an MCIS song. It wouldn't fit on Machina, Gish, or Adore. Maybe on SD, but still not really.

Same goes for 1979. That song is super nostalgic, longing and teenager-y. He wrote it with Gen X in mind, and that was the whole target audience for MCIS. Everything is correlated, but on Adore - less so.

And yes before you go saying that the transition from 1979 to TOASE nullifies that statement, consider that MCIS was meant to be a palette of all colors, spawning from dream-pop to acoustic stuff to heavy metal.

 
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Old 04-26-2018, 11:13 AM   #74
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Originally Posted by eviltimeban View Post
True, but for me TT is of a style along with Cupid De Locke, Beautiful, Lily, Take Me Down, Farewell & Goodnight, and the title track. That sort of gothic, creepy Victorian aesthetic. Those songs sound like the cover art.
Absolutely. Especially Cupid and the title track for me.

 
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Old 04-26-2018, 11:14 AM   #75
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Originally Posted by Woody View Post
LMGTWTY would not have saved Adore. At least not the Rick Rubin demo. Too quiet, slow and long.

The album needed to be shorter. Crestfallen, Tear, OUAT, Shame, Annie Dog shouldn’t have made the cut. LMGTWTY should have.
I'd still want Shame, but the rest could go.

 
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Old 04-26-2018, 07:27 PM   #76
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Originally Posted by Woody View Post
LMGTWTY would not have saved Adore. At least not the Rick Rubin demo. Too quiet, slow and long.

The album needed to be shorter. Crestfallen, Tear, OUAT, Shame, Annie Dog shouldn’t have made the cut. LMGTWTY should have.
Nah

 
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Old 04-26-2018, 07:33 PM   #77
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Originally Posted by Woody View Post
LMGTWTY would not have saved Adore. At least not the Rick Rubin demo. Too quiet, slow and long.

The album needed to be shorter. Crestfallen, Tear, OUAT, Shame, Annie Dog shouldn’t have made the cut. LMGTWTY should have.
Oof some favorites there. LMGTWTYSHEBSKA isn't one.

It's too long probably but I'd have a hard time throwing anything off and I have no idea if something else would have 'saved' it

 
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Old 04-26-2018, 07:38 PM   #78
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don't worry guys, I just checked and the Adore tracklist is still the same as it was 20 years ago

 
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Old 04-26-2018, 11:25 PM   #79
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ok

 
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Old 04-27-2018, 03:38 AM   #80
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shallowed just got shallowed

 
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Old 04-27-2018, 03:39 AM   #81
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ok

 
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Old 04-27-2018, 05:52 AM   #82
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True, but for me TT is of a style along with Cupid De Locke, Beautiful, Lily, Take Me Down, Farewell & Goodnight, and the title track. That sort of gothic, creepy Victorian aesthetic. Those songs sound like the cover art.
Quote:
Originally Posted by PuzzledMuzzle View Post
You missed the point completely. Tonight Tonight is still very much an MCIS song. It wouldn't fit on Machina, Gish, or Adore. Maybe on SD, but still not really.

Same goes for 1979. That song is super nostalgic, longing and teenager-y. He wrote it with Gen X in mind, and that was the whole target audience for MCIS. Everything is correlated, but on Adore - less so.

And yes before you go saying that the transition from 1979 to TOASE nullifies that statement, consider that MCIS was meant to be a palette of all colors, spawning from dream-pop to acoustic stuff to heavy metal.
that TT wouldn't fit on other albums is revisionist theory. it would have just been produced differently accordingly. MCIS is obviously a salad of different things that has many outliers in many ways, but strings doesn't make TT victorian - you're confusing the visuals of the music video (which could have been for any song) with the music. 1979 fits with perfect and trytrytry and here's to the atom bomb more than anything else on MCIS.

I get your point, but imagine if 1979 had not existed, and put perfect in its' place on MCIS, and LMGTWTY in perfects place on adore... they'd still be the same band, with the same spiteful fans and the same lousy bald bandleader that reached the top of their fame at MCIS and billy would have had some lousy story about this other great song called trytrytry that he cut off adore, and how TTT would have been the hit single and sold 10 million copies, bla bla same excuse, timeline doesn't change.

Last edited by T&T : 04-27-2018 at 06:00 AM.

 
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Old 04-27-2018, 06:02 AM   #83
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I'd still want Shame, but the rest could go.
wtf with people cutting shame. it's a great song. and as a simple song it's got great depth.

 
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Old 04-27-2018, 06:30 AM   #84
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Old 04-27-2018, 10:22 AM   #85
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Originally Posted by T&T View Post
that TT wouldn't fit on other albums is revisionist theory. it would have just been produced differently accordingly. MCIS is obviously a salad of different things that has many outliers in many ways, but strings doesn't make TT victorian - you're confusing the visuals of the music video (which could have been for any song) with the music. 1979 fits with perfect and trytrytry and here's to the atom bomb more than anything else on MCIS.
Wasn't thinking of the video at all. Had to think to remember what the video was like.

 
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Old 04-27-2018, 10:28 AM   #86
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A lot of you guys weren't fans/born back in the 90s or were fans but smoked a tonne of weed so wouldn't remember this but there was a short time when Billy was talking up "In My Body" as the great lost song that would've saved the album and catapulted the band back to super stardom but he left it off because he foresaw it causing new trends in pop music that he didn't want to be responsible for.

 
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Old 04-27-2018, 12:22 PM   #87
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yeah that must be it

 
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Old 04-27-2018, 03:17 PM   #88
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Shame is one of the emotional high points of the album and really sets the tone for the last three songs on the album.

The only thing I'd do is cut 'Annie Dog' and add 'Waiting' (huge fuckup by BC not including that song). LMGtWtY would've been nice, really strong vocal performance from BC but I don't think the version on the box set would have been good enough for Adore unless the drums had been redone, the drums are awful on it.

 
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Old 04-27-2018, 04:17 PM   #89
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A lot of you guys weren't fans/born back in the 90s or were fans but smoked a tonne of weed so wouldn't remember this but there was a short time when Billy was talking up "In My Body" as the great lost song that would've saved the album and catapulted the band back to super stardom but he left it off because he foresaw it causing new trends in pop music that he didn't want to be responsible for.
In My Body is incredible. But two minutes too long.

 
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Old 04-27-2018, 04:24 PM   #90
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ideal adore tracklisting -->



17 is great. fite me

 
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