bystarlight.org - am i doing something wrong?

[Eulogy]

i won't actually do it but goddamn that shit is annoying

[Butt Pope]

thread quickly going from best to worst

[Butt Pope]

Originally Posted by SPumpkinsUK

Nutshells aren't pretty. There's a lot of outlines but unfortunately, like a lot of things people will paint their own colours into matters. The fuse has just been burning for far too long, after many months, a delicate situation has just sent it exploding everywhere.

Nothing is unresolvable. Yes things are vague, but things are still extremely fresh. Right now it's a case of 'What can really be said?' Better to be vague and give light there's problems rather than say too much and make it unworkable for the future.

Just saying that things are broken, but ultimately, can they be repaired? No ultimatums or anything, a lot of people acknowledge there's been a spanner between the band and the fans and lately the band acknowledge and don't care. Do the band even know that a band questionnaire for the fans had no questions from any fan and only from the man who was meant to be asking other people for? How far can I go and how much can I say? As I said, I have nothing to lose by doing this!

http://i.imgur.com/6m8qN7z.gif

[Araneae]

Who the fuck cares at this point? Let the fan base die off already. It's not like Billy and his new drones give a shit. They're too fucking busy promoting Billy's tea and wrestling business, and telling everybody how much better they are than the original band, than actually creating any decent music. This band has become a fucking embarrassment and they get what they give. The original band had some decent people running the fan sites and getting info from Billy, and now we're stuck with fucking monte. That right there should tell you how much this band has fallen. Billy's living in his own fucking bubble and people can't bail ship fast enough. Coupled with Billy's support of Ron and Rand Paul, is anyone really surprised that he would support monte? Billy is a fucking goon. Fucking hell, if Hitler was around those goons would be supporting his right to persecute Jews. Oh and Nicole is a fucking idiot who has a poor grasp on what it means to infringe on basic human rights. Maybe we can chalk that stupidity up to another of Billy's bad influences.

[Araneae]

You're not letting go of the band, though, you're just letting go of the miserable, apathetic shit hole that it has become. The original band created some great music and that deserves credit. It's sad that so many longstanding fan bases and people that were associated with the band feel so disregarded that they've disengaged themselves completely, but that's what happens when Billy obviously has problems with his fan base (and everyone else in his life it would seem) and it manifests itself into an ugly creature like monte. Just add these people to the long and growing list of people that Billy has managed to alienate and completely disregard in his life. The best thing to do at this point is to not support this band or Billy financially anymore. If you're still curious about their work then just download it.

[reprise85]

i never thought i'd be at a point where SP would be playing a show within an hour of me and i just dont care at all. but here we are.

[stumpycat]

I don't know what's going on exactly, but it sounds every bit as disgusting in reality as what we have all imagined has been boiling below the surface for years now.

Also I don't understand why this poster is saying "I have nothing to lose by telling you" yet repeatedly coyly backs away from actually saying anything of substance. Obviously he still thinks he has something to lose. Whatever it is, NEEDS and DESERVES to be said without anyone being further hamstrung around by this bullshit. If you believe the band or their management is engaging in behavior that the vast majority of us would likely find immensely distasteful then I think it is your duty, collectively, to just air it. If you don't then you are in a sense implicitly supporting it.

[Cool As Ice Cream]

i don't think we need to focus on the prop 8 thing. (why do we keep on hammering on that anyway? it's clear what monty thinks about it, and it's clear that his arguments don't hold.)
my guess is that the lucky 13 is where it went wrong.

obviously the lucky 13 itself went wrong: it's been put on hold until all reissues are released. and that could easily be another couple of years.

but i also think the whole way it was set up, and the way it was dealt with, rubbed people the wrong way. i've never really believed in it, but i guess other people were willing to give it a chance. (maybe especially since they felt honoured to be part of it? or because they believed something could come out of this?)
if i understand it correctly, monty was asked to form the lucky 13. i don't exactly know who he asked, or how he ran it, but i wouldn't be surprised that's where it all went horribly wrong. the guy has a marble for a brain.

i also wonder what belly was expecting from the lucky 13? wasn't it completely doomed from the start, even without monty at the head?
it seems like he was looking for some sort of golden solution to release the otherwise unreleasable contents of the vaults. on top of that, this way of releasing had to be absolutely groundbreaking. (let us not reuse a model that anyone else has thought of, and that has already proven to work.) and it was up to the fans to come up with this solution. i still don't see how that could ever work, unfortunately. with or without a lucky 13.

[Cool As Ice Cream]

Originally Posted by pavementtune

What I don't get is why SP/Billy would want someone who is not qualified enough in any way to run such a project and be the one to put out their reissue news even after it was clear that Lucky 13 went wrong? Why him?

i don't know.
i wouldn't pick monty myself, but it doesn't really bother me that sp/belly did.

other people could have done a bad job too.
basically everything sp has done online since 2007 was quite a disaster. (but that wasn't necessarily up to the people they hired. once again: what kind of utopian goals was belly trying to achieve? and weren't these doomed from the start?)

[SPumpkinsUK]

All will be revealed in time, I don't mean to be vague but things are still fresh and it's just a case of working out how to put it into words. It's a whole quagmire of things, the decision to speak out wasn't easily come by. Even with opening up ethics still come into play.

Lucky 13... Well I guess my involvement in that is over after these posts. Pretty sure it wasn't the re-issues that put a spanner in it and stalled it's activity. As I said, don't focus on Prop 8.

[Cool As Ice Cream]

ah, so you were in it too. i don't know if i knew that. i guess not.

[vajohna]

Originally Posted by Araneae

Billy is a fucking goon.

Lawl.

[Cool As Ice Cream]

come on, people. more drama!
this could be as good as the pumpkin queen getting fired, combined with monty getting and losing the job of moderator on netphoria.

[juliana]

Prop 8 is not the only issue but it is an important issue.

Monte is the Billy appointed fan rep — many are trying deny this, like Eric Agnew but it is true — However, we know first hand that he works with management and Billy instructs his people to use Monte. Monte is the "gate keeper" he is the liaison between fans and the band. Being a liaison means you must act on behalf of the band when speaking with fans. He was supposed to sign papers to safe guard his conduct but I don't know if they actually implemented them.

The Smashing Pumpkins have always insisted that they care about human rights and are outspoken about equality. This is their brand, but Monte as the liaison of this band does not hold or represent the same values, he should not be vocalizing his beliefs that directly oppose the bands. Freedom of speech should not apply to someone working for you/on behalf of you.

Monte didn't just state he is against gay marriage, he voted and campaigned and protested. He did so on an SP related website, he is known as a homophobe. Why would a homophobe be appointed fan rep? Or continue to keep one after being alerted.
Because of this I don't feel I can support this band. I became a fan in 1998 because I believed in what they were doing beyond the music. I don't think any of that is real anymore.

I believed strongly in new members and encouraged exceptance of them. However, this is a water downed version of SP. The core values are just bullshit now and Billy and band are just trying to pay their mortgages. The biggest shock and the last straw was when Nicole supported monte's view on the LGBT community and told those outraged that we were fighting hate with hate. She has been very vocal against discrimination but backed down when it really was time to prove she believed all this. MORE THAN WORDS, if you believe in equality show it, don't hide behind the words "peace" and "love" to be complacent. The argument that life is to short to argue, is also ridiculous. The free country that these assholes live in was fought for. People fighting for her right to marry are the real heroes and are the reason she will get her rights one day that Monte took away. I wish Nicole would remember she can't just say she isn't a hired gun and then when shit hits the fan, it ain't her fault or prob. I wish Nicole would realize that her biggest supporters and those who FOUGHT her battles in the forums etc deserve the same respect they gave. Instead of supporting a person who finds her sexual orientation and marriage disgusting and is only tolerating her because her current relationship with Billy.

I stopped being a fan in 2004 because I got tired of getting my news from a message board filled with fucking assholes. Came back in 2011, happy I could get news directly from the band but now the communication has deteriorated again.

Lastly, everyone should realize that monte is not stupid and he is not a slave to his religion. Monte has fooled the band and management to believe he is important, needed and is doing a good job. He has also fooled them into thinking he is a poor little retard bullied by those nasty fans — I have seen this with my own eyes. As for his religion, Monte hardly follows his religion, he lies, steals, cheats and threatens people. I was once like many of you who felt bad for monte, until I met him in real life and found out he is a politician and sociopath.

I hope that SPuk and Bystarlight don't back down in the end.

[Cool As Ice Cream]

Originally Posted by juliana

Monte is known as a homophobe.

I wish Nicole would realize that her biggest supporters and those who FOUGHT her battles in the forums etc deserve the same respect they gave.

I was once like many of you who felt bad for monte, until I met him in real life and found out he is a politician and sociopath.

have you considered the possibility that monty is still in the closet? don't you think it's a bit cruel, in that case, to call him a homophobe? basically you're making it harder for a gay person to be himself. sounds quite homophobic to me. i'd even call it gaybashing.

LOLOLO at people fighting nicole's battles on messageboards. that's a good one. what makes it even better is that they're expecting something in return too. ha!

i think you're right about monty being evil though. and you've met him in real life.

[juliana]

Originally Posted by Cool As Ice Cream

have you considered the possibility that monty is still in the closet? don't you think it's a bit cruel, in that case, to call him a homophobe? basically you're making it harder for a gay person to be himself. sounds quite homophobic to me. i'd even call it gaybashing.


LOLOLO at people fighting nicole's battles on messageboards. that's a good one. what makes it even better is that they're expecting something in return too. ha!

i think you're right about monty being evil though. and you've met him in real life.

You can be a homophobe, even if you have accepted your homosexuality.

Durning the week of the oceania cruise we spent some time getting to know the band. I very much respected Nicole and I would stick up for anyone I respect. That is the person I am. Nicole reads the board, she sent me a message about what upset her and thanked me for having her back afterward. Yes I do expect respect in return, I would from anyone I have helped, I have also helped nicole create the cold and lovely chat room etc. I am not one of those fans that thinks it is a privilege to even have them acknowledge me.

I spent an entire day with monte, his wife and bystarlight before the cruise. He completely changed the day of the cruise around Billy Corgan. He thinks he is above all fans, he doesn't see fan communication as a two way street.

but keep Trololololing, I am sure SPuk and bystarlight will be soooo willing to tell all because of it.

[celestials]

Originally Posted by Araneae

You're not letting go of the band, though, you're just letting go of the miserable, apathetic shit hole that it has become. The original band created some great music and that deserves credit. It's sad that so many longstanding fan bases and people that were associated with the band feel so disregarded that they've disengaged themselves completely, but that's what happens when Billy obviously has problems with his fan base (and everyone else in his life it would seem) and it manifests itself into an ugly creature like monte. Just add these people to the long and growing list of people that Billy has managed to alienate and completely disregard in his life. The best thing to do at this point is to not support this band or Billy financially anymore. If you're still curious about their work then just download it.

I'll respond to other posts in a bit, but that is how I feel about a lot of things right now. I could stay knowing that maybe one day things would change or maybe another fansite would be treated equally, but it's just never going to happen. I don't want to be part of this "miserable and apathetic shit hole". I don't want to be part of a community where it's ok for the fan rep to spread hate and discrimination. A fan rep should be respected, trusted and have close ties with most fans. None of that is going on.

I really do not believe in my heart that the old Smashing Pumpkins would let this happen to their community. Right now, just honoring the old line-up is not enough for me to stay.

[Araneae]

He has also fooled them into thinking he is a poor little retard bullied by those nasty fans — I have seen this with my own eyes. As for his religion, Monte hardly follows his religion, he lies, steals, cheats and threatens people.

So he's exactly like Billy then?

[celestials]

Originally Posted by stumpycat

I don't know what's going on exactly, but it sounds every bit as disgusting in reality as what we have all imagined has been boiling below the surface for years now.

Also I don't understand why this poster is saying "I have nothing to lose by telling you" yet repeatedly coyly backs away from actually saying anything of substance. Obviously he still thinks he has something to lose. Whatever it is, NEEDS and DESERVES to be said without anyone being further hamstrung around by this bullshit. If you believe the band or their management is engaging in behavior that the vast majority of us would likely find immensely distasteful then I think it is your duty, collectively, to just air it. If you don't then you are in a sense implicitly supporting it.

I personally did not say that "I have nothing to lose". I said that "I will think about it". If I decide to go ahead, it's literally going to be pages and pages of bullshit that will probably lead many fans to take the same route that I have. I do not know if I want to be responsible for doing that. Also, that means letting go of the band for good. So sorry if I can't do that on your schedule. I put my heart and soul into my site, and almost 2 years of my life. I really tried to improve the community as much as I could. I have never backed down from a fight in my whole life until yesterday.

[celestials]

Originally Posted by Cool As Ice Cream

ooh! what else happened?
did you get in trouble regarding copyrights? or did the lucky 13 debacle grow too big to stay motivated?

how did it come about that your site wasn't the right place for any news from the band, and was that like a slap in the face?

you mention breaking ties with monty, and leaving lucky 13, even before you read monty's post where he explained his views. (i think i read that. correct me if i'm wrong.)
how come? was it personal? or was it related to one of the reasons mentioned above?

No, I did not get into trouble with copyrights. I did a lot of legal research before I even launched the site. I also consulted a few of my lawyer friends from grad school just to make sure that I was doing things right.

Looking back, I think my involvement in Lucky 13 is where things really started to go downhill. But, I had a bad experience on the Oceania cruise. Monte was let on the cruise ship a few hours before anyone else to setup his gear or whatever. I'm sure that you have seen the pictures where he is looking down on all of us from the top floor beside the band. Well, Juliana, Simon and I were also guests of the band. The tour manager told us that we were allowed to get on early too. Monte never wondered why we were waiting down there. He just went on and about like it was a regular day - ho-hum. We had to make a few international calls ourselves to clear things up. So after we got permission to go on the top floor before anyone else, the first thing that Monte did when he saw us - was to reach for security. Why would someone that you considered a friend do that? That story is nothing compared to other things that Monte has done to fellow fans. But it's a euphemism for the things that he does in his position as fan rep/gatekeeper. If you're wondering why he is the only news source, it's because he makes sure it stays that way.

About "was that like a slap in the face"? Yes, and it was definitely not the first one I was privy to. I think what bothers me the most is that people tell me all the time that I need to be more like Monte "to get ahead". That I needed to be more shameless, stalkerish, conniving, pushy, in your face, etc. But I'm not willing to change who I am or to compromise my morals and ethics for the band or for the community. I think that my history with the band, my work ethic, skills and position in the community should be enough. I don't want to be part of a community where those traits is what "gets you ahead".

And yes, you did read that right. I cut ties with Monte and quit Lucky 13 weeks, even months before his Prop 8 post. That post and Nicole's response to it made the future of the community very clear to me.

[Cool As Ice Cream]

Originally Posted by celestials

But, I had a bad experience on the Oceania cruise. Monte was let on the cruise ship a few hours before anyone else to setup his gear or whatever. I'm sure that you have seen the pictures where he is looking down on all of us from the top floor beside the band. Well, Juliana, Simon and I were also guests of the band. The tour manager told us that we were allowed to get on early too. Monte never wondered why we were waiting down there. He just went on and about like it was a regular day - ho-hum. We had to make a few international calls ourselves to clear things up. So after we got permission to go on the top floor before anyone else, the first thing that Monte did when he saw us - was to reach for security.

wow. what a lovely move. (i love my oceania cruise button even more now.)
thanks for sharing that.

i've always known that he was worthless (without taking his religion or lack of education into account).

[MonteLDS]

so many false accusations about me are being made by Julliana and Marie. But I have learned my lesson the more I defend myself and clarify the more you people dogpile on me.

[Araneae]

Originally Posted by celestials

So after we got permission to go on the top floor before anyone else, the first thing that Monte did when he saw us - was to reach for security.

L O fucking L

It's so pathetic that I can't stop laughing.

Originally Posted by celestials

About "was that like a slap in the face"? Yes, and it was definitely not the first one I was privy to. I think what bothers me the most is that people tell me all the time that I need to be more like Monte "to get ahead". That I needed to be more shameless, stalkerish, conniving, pushy, in your face, etc.

That's the kind of people Billy loves. For Fucks sake, he dated a person like Courtney Love for years, even while they were both married. That should tell you more than enough about his ethics and morals.

Congratulations, though, for actually taking a stand and not licking Billy's ball sack like monte does. It's a shame, seeing as your site was the only one I actually ever used outside of netphoria, but I don't think Billy and this band deserves the amount of work and devotion that you guys have put into it. Billy doesn't give a shit and you should return the sentiment. For all his talk on morals, ethics, art, and love, he's just another fucking hypocrite.

[T&T]

Originally Posted by MonteLDS

so many false accusations about me are being made by Julliana and Marie. But I have learned my lesson the more I defend myself and clarify the more you people dogpile on me.

so you're saying that it's true?

[celestials]

Originally Posted by MonteLDS

so many false accusations about me are being made by Julliana and Marie. But I have learned my lesson the more I defend myself and clarify the more you people dogpile on me.

Well, I know two other people that can corroborate my story, Monte.
You have lied so much that you can't even keep track of all that you have said and done.

If you want me to prove everything that I might say about you here - you know I will & with screenshots. I just don't know if you are worth the time.

[Araneae]

Her latest status on Facebook is basically saying that the continued support for Crestfallen is the band's way of showing compassion and acceptance for his beliefs and actions. Also, that tolerating his differing views is the right thing to do.

I believe that's also the same stance that German's took before (and after) the Kristallnacht.

[T&T]

lets not get all godwin about this. it's bad enough as it is.



and the mods are trying to silence us here too. they deleted my thread!!!

[Araneae]

I'm just fucking around. I just think it's funny how quick people are to jump and sit on the fence than take a stand on anything (and the fact that I studied German makes it inevitable that I will make a Nazi joke).

[T&T]

no one is sitting on the fence. we're ready with our pitchforks and torches, just give us the fodder!

[celestials]

Originally Posted by T&T

no one is sitting on the fence. we're ready with our pitchforks and torches, just give us the fodder!

Although I have a lot more to add, I think the SP community knows the history very well and how things have become even more dilapidated since Monte was appointed fan rep. We should have protested in mass a long time ago. But that is the thing - does our opinion matter? Is this something worth fighting for? Can we as a collective make a difference?

I personally think not, and that disconnect between the band and the fans will continue as long as Monte is the rep. It sickens me that he is OK with the fact that the majority of fans do not respect him and that he thinks he is doing the band a service by posting official news in an unprofessional manner. I know that if I was not qualified to do something, that I would either refuse to take on the job or I would resign for the greater good. He said himself in that Prop 8 post that he "won't be replying due to the poor treatment revived when trying to express myself with my limited abilities." That to me says that he knows the great majority of hardcore fans do not like him and that he has limited abilities to communicate. And what is he doing right now? He is representing fans that do not believe in him and he is a constant communication conduit.