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Old 09-28-2019, 04:41 PM   #61
myosis
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does anyone have one of those "leet as fuck" teddy bears?

 
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Old 09-28-2019, 06:03 PM   #62
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Quote:
Originally Posted by houseofglass11 View Post
Zwan got trashed by Pitchfork when the album came out. Nobody cared about Zwan except the SP community. They were a total commercial flop and that in combination with Paz banging everyone in the band were the obvious reasons Billy blew it all up.



So sorry for your loss

 
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Old 09-28-2019, 06:09 PM   #63
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2001:

http://www.mtv.com/news/1445373/bill...t-pumpkins-lp/

http://www.mtv.com/news/1450482/bill...new-band-zwan/

https://www.rollingstone.com/music/m...s-zwan-182690/

https://www.nytimes.com/2001/11/22/a...fe-313998.html

https://www.latimes.com/archives/la-...221-story.html

2002:

https://lasvegassun.com/news/2002/de...-a-supergroup/

https://www.vice.com/en_us/article/w...-smashing-v9n1

https://www.chicagotribune.com/news/...112-story.html

http://www.mtv.com/news/1458717/bill...-single-album/

2003:

http://www.outloud.com/2003/May%202003/zwan.htm

https://www.chicagomaroon.com/2003/0...nd-sucks-cork/

https://www.sun-sentinel.com/news/fl...413-story.html

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/culture/...the-gloom.html

http://exclaim.ca/music/article/zwan..._on_-_march_25

http://www.bluecricket.com/plug/revi.../zwanmary.html

https://www.musicomh.com/reviews/alb...tar-of-the-sea

https://www.musicomh.com/reviews/liv...-empire-london

https://www.dallasobserver.com/music/zwan-6388571

https://www.phoenixnewtimes.com/musi...cians-11360960

https://www.popmatters.com/zwan-mary-2496121410.html

https://www.chron.com/entertainment/...st-2111537.php

http://ucsdguardian.org/2003/04/17/r...to-rock-rimac/

https://www.smh.com.au/entertainment...08-gdge0m.html

https://www.spin.com/2003/06/zwan-end-beginning/

https://www.bbc.co.uk/music/reviews/84jw/

https://pitchfork.com/reviews/albums...ar-of-the-sea/

https://www.nme.com/news/music/smash...ns-236-1371622

Breakup:

https://www.billboard.com/articles/n...tin-exits-zwan

https://www.billboard.com/articles/n...s-plug-on-zwan

https://www.spectatornews.com/showca...eakup-of-zwan/

Other:

https://mostlymodernmedia.wordpress....zwan-honestly/

https://www.idsnews.com/article/2005...-5b9c376797e2e

https://www.joe.ie/music/rewind-15-y...d-happy-615245

Post Zwan:

https://www.villagevoice.com/2010/12...h-josh-groban/

https://consequenceofsound.net/2017/...white-stripes/

https://music.avclub.com/random-rule...ild-1798213828



I've read well over a hundred or so articles from the Zwan years. There was never an "indie groundswell" movement that I could find. The album was very mixed when it came to professional reviews. They were touted as a supergroup at some points even before Paz joined. Some reviewers suggest that Billy used Matt and Pajo for their indie cred while others had no idea who they were. Paz hasn't said anything post Zwan about the band/experience that I can find. She was definitely bedding Pajo more than Billy. Billy is/was an egomaniac that most definitely tried to pull a fast one on some musicians that were only ever in it for the free ride.

 
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Old 09-28-2019, 07:57 PM   #64
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what is wrong with a little band bang?

stop blaming paz for billy's mistakes

LEAVE PAZ ALONE

 
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Old 09-28-2019, 08:16 PM   #65
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Originally Posted by smashingjj View Post
So sorry for your loss
Nah I couldn’t care less tbh, nor am I holding out for some magical Zwan box set that will never see the light of day.

 
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Old 09-28-2019, 08:51 PM   #66
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AveryLoren View Post

I've read well over a hundred or so articles from the Zwan years.
so sorry for your loss

 
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Old 09-28-2019, 11:10 PM   #67
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AveryLoren View Post
I've read well over a hundred or so articles from the Zwan years. There was never an "indie groundswell" movement that I could find. The album was very mixed when it came to professional reviews. They were touted as a supergroup at some points even before Paz joined. Some reviewers suggest that Billy used Matt and Pajo for their indie cred while others had no idea who they were. Paz hasn't said anything post Zwan about the band/experience that I can find. She was definitely bedding Pajo more than Billy. Billy is/was an egomaniac that most definitely tried to pull a fast one on some musicians that were only ever in it for the free ride.
I appreciate your dedication, but Zwan were an independent band. There was a groundswell of fan support. I mean, I was on this board in 2001 downloading Zwan bootlegs and remember the vibe around the shows.

 
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Old 09-29-2019, 12:55 AM   #68
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Groundswell of support on SP message boards sure, but the general public didn't care much about Zwan. The album was a commercial flop, first week sales were very poor, and you guys were trashing the shit out of MSotS on here when it came out and have continued to do so in the years since. I've always liked the album but you're looking at it with rose tinted glasses.

 
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Old 09-29-2019, 05:02 AM   #69
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Nobody said the general public gave a fuck about Zwan.

They said there was a buzz about them in indie circles following the 2001 shows, which is true.

 
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Old 09-29-2019, 10:47 AM   #70
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i know it may seem like the only people who cared about zwan were on sp message boards, but the fact of the groundswell groundswell groundswell groundswell groundswell groundswell groundswell groundswell groundswell groundswell groundswell groundswell groundswell groundswell groundswell groundswell groundswell groundswell groundswell groundswell groundswell groundswell groundswell groundswell groundswell groundswell groundswell groundswell groundswell groundswell groundswell groundswell groundswell groundswell groundswell groundswell groundswell groundswell groundswell groundswell groundswell groundswell groundswell groundswell groundswell groundswell groundswell groundswell groundswell groundswell groundswell groundswell groundswell groundswell groundswell groundswell groundswell groundswell groundswell groundswell groundswell groundswell groundswell groundswell groundswell groundswell groundswell groundswell groundswell groundswell

 
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Old 09-29-2019, 01:06 PM   #71
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"ZWAN WAS A BAND!!"

"FUCK YOU YOU'RE A BAND"

"GO FUCK OURSELVES! MY INDIE DICK WAS TOTALLY GROUNDSWOLLEN IN 2001!"

 
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Old 09-29-2019, 01:30 PM   #72
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Old 09-29-2019, 01:59 PM   #73
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I was an indie kid back in those days and discovered SP through the grassroots indie scene hype behind Zwan.

I exclusively listened to bands like Gunt, Shopper Omega, Wartorn Kosovo, Boxking and of course Slint. I remember talking to Jersey Fling (Literal Bible frontman) after a show and she was all “have you heard Zwan” and I was like “No who they?” and he said “check them out” and so I did

 
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Old 09-29-2019, 02:04 PM   #74
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but did you read well over a hundred or so articles from the Zwan years?

 
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Old 09-29-2019, 02:59 PM   #75
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Quote:
Originally Posted by houseofglass11 View Post
Nah I couldn’t care less tbh, nor am I holding out for some magical Zwan box set that will never see the light of day.
I can't wait for the Zwan boxset booklet where Billy will use it to bash the rest of the band and their contributions and how it was really him who pulled it all together and the true genius behind Zwan and how Paz shapeshifted in front of his eyes leading him to break up the band.

 
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Old 09-29-2019, 03:03 PM   #76
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Originally Posted by MyKeyZ View Post
I can't wait for the Zwan boxset booklet where Billy will use it to bash the rest of the band and their contributions and how it was really him who pulled it all together and the true genius behind Zwan and how Paz shapeshifted in front of his eyes leading him to break up the band.
...all written in really bad flowery prose

 
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Old 09-29-2019, 03:24 PM   #77
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FoolofaTook View Post
but did you read well over a hundred or so articles from the Zwan years?
Yes but I’m not gonna scan all my zines

 
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Old 09-29-2019, 03:33 PM   #78
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I remember when I got MCIS. I was blown away so took it round a friends house. Man you gotta listen to this!

Well I got some big rant about how he’s not going to listen to some major label bullshit double album led zeppelin shit and I don’t care if it is legit take that sell out shit outta here.

“But it’s the guy from the true poets of Zwan..”

Oh Zwan? Put that shit on!!!

 
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Old 09-30-2019, 12:36 PM   #79
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I have went through the 2001-2003 Zwan posts on this board and a few others. It took about two days. I still haven't found any trace of the illusive "indie groundswell" phenomenon. The major consensus I am finding is that Matt and Pajo had some "lite" indie cred. Paz was unknown. Billy and Jimmy brought in the mainstream media who didn't seem to care after the initial tour until the album dropped which had some pretty great reactions. Hardcore pumpkins fans seemed to heavily dislike Zwan almost immediately. The years between the breakup and Billy's solo plans generated a lot of Zwan theory threads then it dried up till post 2011 when the reissues began.

 
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Old 09-30-2019, 12:48 PM   #80
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the "groundswell" thing was a hoax put on by a bunch of boys who have a groundswell for saying the word groundswell

 
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Old 09-30-2019, 01:06 PM   #81
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I am bound and determined to find this 𝙶𝚁𝙾𝚄𝙽𝙳𝚂𝚆𝙴𝙻𝙻

 
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Old 09-30-2019, 01:16 PM   #82
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AveryLoren View Post
I have went through the 2001-2003 Zwan posts on this board and a few others. It took about two days.

 
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Old 09-30-2019, 02:55 PM   #83
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Zwan groundswell was equal to Oceania or MTaE groundswell.

 
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Old 09-30-2019, 03:14 PM   #84
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please, a cursory glance at any given Indie Rag of the mid-2010s will quickly debunk that bullshit!

 
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Old 09-30-2019, 03:15 PM   #85
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hell... look at the rag i used to clean my bathroom floor!

 
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Old 09-30-2019, 03:37 PM   #86
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AveryLoren View Post
I have went through the 2001-2003 Zwan posts on this board and a few others.
Why?

Quote:
It took about two days.
Why?

Quote:
I still haven't found any trace of the illusive "indie groundswell" phenomenon.
Why would there be evidence of an indie groundswell on an obscure Pumpkins forum?

Quote:
The major consensus I am finding is that Matt and Pajo had some "lite" indie cred.
Pajo had a decent amount of indie cred cos of Slint.

Quote:
Paz was unknown.
Paz wasn't in the band until late 2002.

Quote:
Billy and Jimmy brought in the mainstream media who didn't seem to care after the initial tour until the album dropped which had some pretty great reactions.
What does this even mean? There were multiple tours prior to the album, they started with a different line-up and an evolving setlist. They got MSM attention to promote the album in 2003.

Quote:
Hardcore pumpkins fans seemed to heavily dislike Zwan almost immediately.
Nope. The True Poets and Djali/Hideout stuff was very well-received.

Quote:
The years between the breakup and Billy's solo plans generated a lot of Zwan theory threads then it dried up till post 2011 when the reissues began.
Thanks for making this pointless analysis of one folder of one forum to try and disprove statements by people who were actually here and remember what happened crystal fucking clearly.

 
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Old 09-30-2019, 08:02 PM   #87
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Woody View Post



Pajo had a decent amount of indie cred cos of Slint.

The Pajo angle is way overblown on this forum. Sure, Spiderland is something of a cult classic, but not even the biggest Slint fans were hyped up or creating any buzz about the prospects of him playing guitar for Billy Corgan. Hell, the honest to gods truth is that most Slint fans actually expected the band to suck and were wondering what the hell Pajo was thinking.

You guys are rewriting history in order to serve some sorta narrative. Props to AveryLowen for so thoroughly debunking the Zwan sensationalism that you guys are so oddly pushing. It would be like saying Cheap Trick fans were creating an "indie groundswell" over Tinted Windows... No Cheap Trick fans cared.

Last edited by fuzzyroes : 09-30-2019 at 08:10 PM.

 
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Old 09-30-2019, 09:35 PM   #88
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Zwan had some really good music

and then the studio album was mediocre

 
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Old 09-30-2019, 09:39 PM   #89
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Lord William "bait and switch" Organ

 
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Old 09-30-2019, 09:41 PM   #90
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I think "Yeah!" is a moment where you're like "oh so this vibe actually works"

there was potential for a graceful transition, his voice doesn't even sound like shitty ass on that track

 
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