Wasn't the lead single for Day for Night supposed to be out by now?

[Ram27]

Originally Posted by Forgotten Child

Isn't he recording the new Complex EP/album though?

Exploring the studio space

A photo posted by Jimmy Chamberlin (@chamberdrums) on Nov 29, 2015 at 6:53pm PST

looks more like a jazz setup than a Pumpkins setup

guess he just got a second kit

[DemonUnicorns]

Zeitgeist has some real moments of brilliance. Again, it sounds more like a weak Pumpkins album than most of what has come after, which has just been like wtf how is this smashing pumpkins. The way the guitars and vocals are produced does totally ruin the listenability though. Bleeding the Orchid and 7 Shades might be decent songs, but especially now that it's been so long since it came out, the production just sounds like some kind of weird joke.

Yeah the layering of so many vocals is probably my biggest complaint of Zeitgeist. Billy took the layering concept of the SP sound, normally done with guitars, and did it all with the weakest part of the SP sound: his vocals post-2000. Some of the songs definitely would have been classics with the original lineup there to curb Billy's ideas.

Originally Posted by FoolofaTook

7 shades is not a decent song

stellar is tho. and I like neverlost but I know everyone hates it.

Neverlost is absolutely fine.

Originally Posted by redbreegull

If the guitars in 7 shades were twice as beefy and the vocals accounted for half as many tracks, it would totally change the energy of the song. It still wouldn't be a great song, but it would absolutely be a lot better.

Yep

Ranking Zeitgeist:
Tier 1: That's the Way (My Love Is), Tarantula, Stellar
Tier 2: Doomsday Clock, Bleeding the Orchid, United States, Death From Above, Bring the Light, Ma Belle
Tier 3: 7 Shades of Black, (Come On) Let's Go!, Neverlost
Tier 4: Starz, For God and Country, Pomp and Circumstances

Everything except Tier 4 is listenable to me, but really only Tier 1 is worth listening to. Tier 2 is close. So many wrong choices in the studio...

[Ram27]

Originally Posted by DemonUnicorns

Some of the songs definitely would have been classics with the original lineup there to curb Billy's ideas.

I wonder how much Jimmy was involved with that type of stuff. Who knows, maybe ZG would be even worse without Jim. He probably doesn't say much about guitar/production/lyric stuff though.

I do remember reading he urged billy to put Ruby on MCIS

[FoolofaTook]

Originally Posted by MonteLDS

last time public comment i recall about the new album release date was in late July

this sentence just seethes with viscerality

fuck yeah!!!

[redbreegull]

Originally Posted by Ram27

I wonder how much Jimmy was involved with that type of stuff. Who knows, maybe ZG would be even worse without Jim. He probably doesn't say much about guitar/production/lyric stuff though.

Listen to the first 45 seconds of Bring the Light loud on headphones. Holy shit. Jimmy brings the fucking light dude.

probably Jimmy had very little to do with anything other than just playing the drums, and even then, billy has said he would come to him with ideas and explain them and then Jimmy would play what he thought Billy wanted. But his prowess behind the kit is staggering. The relationship between his drums and Billy's guitar/voice was the essence of SP

[amoergosum]

Originally Posted by redbreegull

The relationship between his drums and Billy's guitar/voice was the essence of SP

>>>

Butch Vig (2012):
"He [Jimmy Chamberlin] and Billy Corgan really have a special dynamic...how they play. It's very hypnotic and I think that was the secret to the Pumpkins sound...it had this kind of sexy swagger in a way...very hypnotic...and...the only way I can describe it is they had this push pull thing and they were locked into each other..."

[DemonUnicorns]

Originally Posted by Ram27

I wonder how much Jimmy was involved with that type of stuff. Who knows, maybe ZG would be even worse without Jim. He probably doesn't say much about guitar/production/lyric stuff though.

I do remember reading he urged billy to put Ruby on MCIS

Yeah guitar/production/arrangements would be where D'arcy/James come in. And yes, of course Zeigeist would have been awful w/o Jimmy, there is no doubt.

[in stereo]

Let's hope that D4N never gets released. JC or not, it will be cringe-worthy. There will be no 'redeeming' album. No return to form. It's over. When the best you can do is "my love is strange" then the party is over. Thanks for the good times, now give us the Machina reissue so we can stop paying attention.

[T&T]

give us the D4N so we can stop paying attention.

[DemonUnicorns]

Bully touted D4N as sounding completely different than anything he's done before. I'd like to hear it.

[run2pee]

Originally Posted by DemonUnicorns

Bully touted D4N as sounding completely different than anything he's done before. I'd like to hear it.

Maybe he's even "invented a new form!"

Remember? Like he did with EMTEA




......oh wait

[DemonUnicorns]

Originally Posted by Run To Me

Remember? Like he did with EMTEA




......oh wait

what the fuck is EMTEA

[myosis]

a different kind of tea

[redbreegull]

god is EMTEA just like me

[inkless]

Originally Posted by DemonUnicorns

Yeah the layering of so many vocals is probably my biggest complaint of Zeitgeist. Billy took the layering concept of the SP sound, normally done with guitars, and did it all with the weakest part of the SP sound: his vocals post-2000. Some of the songs definitely would have been classics with the original lineup there to curb Billy's ideas.



Neverlost is absolutely fine.



Yep

Ranking Zeitgeist:
Tier 1: That's the Way (My Love Is), Tarantula, Stellar
Tier 2: Doomsday Clock, Bleeding the Orchid, United States, Death From Above, Bring the Light, Ma Belle
Tier 3: 7 Shades of Black, (Come On) Let's Go!, Neverlost
Tier 4: Starz, For God and Country, Pomp and Circumstances

Everything except Tier 4 is listenable to me, but really only Tier 1 is worth listening to. Tier 2 is close. So many wrong choices in the studio...

Neverlost Tier1

[run2pee]

Originally Posted by DemonUnicorns

what the fuck is EMTEA

It's the way cool acro* someone on here came up with for MTAE that alludes both to its emptiness and the fact bill's more interested in curating outtake inkjet tea bundles than writing songs









*way cool slang for acronym

[T&T]

shut the fuck up Run2Me

[run2pee]

Get pegged AT&T

[DemonUnicorns]

Regardless, I don't think Billy really hyped MTAE up as having a completely different sound. D4N he has...

[NovaFritz]

My guess is that D4N is being held up by the label. Either they are holding onto it b/c they know a back-to-back album release will be bad for sales (Corgan fatigue), or b/c they are not interested. The whole back-to-back thing was thought up before MTAE bombed.

[jparker800]

It's no longer called Day for Night...

fast-forward to @ 0:45

(edit) but just now realized most of you probably already knew that. oh well, interesting video either way

[Ram27]

Why does he keep worrying about hits?

goddammit the hits are the most forgettable part of the SP catalog

i mean I understand trying to write a couple singles per album but don't produce every fucking song like it's meant to be topping the charts in 2015. you're not justin beiber motherfucker. rock isn't mainstream cool anymore but you're in a rock band so write good rock music and stop trying to placate the kids or people going to clubs or whatever

_________

so the new album is gonna suck. the stuff he said was going to be dark, heavy, and different is what he said thought sucked when he listened back. so he locked himself in isolation and rewrote the album. this is gonna suck. and it won't even have Jimmy, probably.

the guy writing that album in seclusion isn't this guy anymore. it's this guy

Hell even if it had Jimmy he'd probably just be playing fucking 8 notes per song accenting the synths or whatever

[jparker800]

... having listened to this interview and plenty others, hearing BC constantly refer to The Smashing Pumpkins as a "franchise", or a "business", or a "product" kinda irks me.

Why go so overboard in trying to minimize something that is art, something personal and intimate, sometimes transcendent, by constantly referring to it as and reducing it to a consumable product?

I wonder if constantly viewing his music from this disconnected business perspective is a sort of defense mechanism to protect him from all the negativity toward his art.

...or maybe his art isn't even personal anymore... and it truly is just a product.

So then, is his love actually strange or not? Or does he think playing a character who is obsessed with declaring his love is strange every other song is a solid business decision?

[Cool As Ice Cream]

integrity

[Jelly Blossom]

Originally Posted by jparker800

It's no longer called Day for Night...

fast-forward to @ 0:45

(edit) but just now realized most of you probably already knew that. oh well, interesting video either way

Man, Billy's comment @ 2:25 here is fucking disturbing. Monuments has some of Billy's weakest songwriting in songs like "One and All", "Anti-Hero" and "Run2Me" yet he still champions the idea that the album is really strong song wise.

Even the better songs on that album are pretty fucking weak, and "Drum + Fife" was saved by Tommy Lee's input/rewriting so idk where Billy gets off on thinking the album is so strong.

[in stereo]

Originally Posted by Jelly Blossom

Man, Billy's comment @ 2:25 here is fucking disturbing. Monuments has some of Billy's weakest songwriting in songs like "One and All", "Anti-Hero" and "Run2Me" yet he still champions the idea that the album is really strong song wise.

Even the better songs on that album are pretty fucking weak, and "Drum + Fife" was saved by Tommy Lee's input/rewriting so idk where Billy gets off on thinking the album is so strong.

Dude is delusional. He's 20 years removed from the period in time where he could write amazing songs easily. Now, the best he can do is Run2Me.

The funniest part about this video is that the people there paid $300 to listen to this fucker whine about politics/clickbait/the music industry.

[Silvermayo]

Originally Posted by Jelly Blossom

Man, Billy's comment @ 2:25 here is fucking disturbing. Monuments has some of Billy's weakest songwriting in songs like "One and All", "Anti-Hero" and "Run2Me" yet he still champions the idea that the album is really strong song wise.

Even the better songs on that album are pretty fucking weak, and "Drum + Fife" was saved by Tommy Lee's input/rewriting so idk where Billy gets off on thinking the album is so strong.

Although I tend to agree with you that MTAE is far from Billy's best work...I really enjoy the album. It's better than the vast majority of crap being spewed by bands currently. Just sharing my opinion. And Anti-Hero really is a great song when you can get past the sub-par lyrics.

[DemonUnicorns]

Originally Posted by Silvermayo

And Anti-Hero really is a great song when you can get past the sub-par lyrics.

Surprisingly, this is actually true. Lyrics are the biggest flaw on MTAE, and they completely ruin EVERY song. Underneath Billy's shit lyrics are a few good tunes. AH sounds very Zwanish except for the lyrics being total shit instead of just shit.

[Jelly Blossom]

Originally Posted by Silvermayo

Although I tend to agree with you that MTAE is far from Billy's best work...I really enjoy the album. It's better than the vast majority of crap being spewed by bands currently. Just sharing my opinion. And Anti-Hero really is a great song when you can get past the sub-par lyrics.

Lyrics are just as important to me as music or melody when it comes to songs and that's been one of my problems with Billy in recent years, especially with his work on MTAE and on songs such as "Anti-Hero" and "One and All".
The guy's pushing 50, claims that he's a musical genius, and yet is consciously releasing songs with horrible lyrics such as "Never been kissed by a girl like you/All I wanna, I wanna do/Love me baby, love me true" and "I don't mind what you're running/Cause you and me we're just something/Don't just hang what you're running".... and yes, he rhymes the word "running" with the word "running" there. True genius.

As I've grown as an individual I've realized that artists like Billy haven't grown (either as a person or an artist) and I find that irritating and fucking disturbing for some reason.

He's so content with releasing mediocre work (or work by his admission is just 'ok') and then he wonders why people don't think he's great and aren't worshiping him unconditionally. The fact that he has cognitive dissonance with that is fucking amazing.

[T&T]

I THINK THIS PROVES THAT DENNIS FLEMION WAS BILLY'S GHOST WRITER!