[Conspiracy Theory] D'arcy is Billy's "great white buffalo"

[MyOneAndOnly]

Originally Posted by slunken

this reads like a circus magazine article

Thank you

[stumpycat]

Originally Posted by juliana

Smashing pumpkins originally was a new wave / goth sorta band. Which is why adore sounds the way it does— that was the album they were going to make without jimmy. If Jimmy wasn't so good, they would have replaced him because he was the odd man out.
.

Yeah, that's probably true regarding the direction of the band. The music did become heavier and more "masculine" straight up rock within a year after Jimmy joined. I can't prove that was the cause but whatever.

[stumpycat]

Originally Posted by scottytheoneand

Thank you

Err...I'm not sure sounding like Circus magazine is something one should aspire to?
I just remember that my cousin used to horde those things from the used mag stack at Half Price Books, and that it seemed like a sort of Bop magazine for the alt-rock girls even though the photography somehow consistently managed to make their idols look like dirty hung over shit.

[BurtSampson]

Originally Posted by stumpycat

Yeah, that's probably true regarding the direction of the band. The music did become heavier and more "masculine" straight up rock within a year after Jimmy joined. I can't prove that was the cause but whatever.

well to be fair it's a lot easier to "straight up rock" when you don't have a fuckin drum machine

[ping-ping]

Originally Posted by stumpycat

even though the photography somehow consistently managed to make their idols look like dirty hung over shit.

As an "alt-rock [fan]girl" I always assumed the magazine was written for male fans precisely because of this reason.

It was a terrible magazine, but I still loved it.

[MyOneAndOnly]

Originally Posted by stumpycat

Err...I'm not sure sounding like Circus magazine is something one should aspire to?
I just remember that my cousin used to horde those things from the used mag stack at Half Price Books, and that it seemed like a sort of Bop magazine for the alt-rock girls even though the photography somehow consistently managed to make their idols look like dirty hung over shit.

I loved circus magazine back in the day.

Back when I was in a metal band.

[stumpycat]

Originally Posted by ping-ping

As an "alt-rock [fan]girl" I always assumed the magazine was written for male fans precisely because of this reason.

It was a terrible magazine, but I still loved it.

What particular charm did this magazine hold for you? I'm genuinely curious. I always read the Guitar World type mags because it provided a much more in depth view of the music (and not just in terms of the technical stuff, either) in the interviews.

[slunken]

that magazine was poorly done garbage. of course it fascinated me. there was nothing to offer except for the cover interview by your favorite artist. sometimes they could be a little more candid in the interviews (i had a couple pumpkins post mcis//adore-era issues as well as a couple of marilyn manson issues) because it was such a lowbrow publication.

the fan art and poetry pages were hilarious and amazing. the magazine was filled with cheap one page full color pinups backed with shitty band history quizzes, to test your knowledge of the band.

so essentially, for me, the particular charm was you bought it because there was a multi-page cover story interview by (insert favorite band frontman of the time).

[MyOneAndOnly]

Originally Posted by slunken

so essentially, for me, the particular charm was you bought it because there was a multi-page cover story interview by (insert favorite band frontman of the time).

this

[ping-ping]

Originally Posted by stumpycat

What particular charm did this magazine hold for you? I'm genuinely curious. I always read the Guitar World type mags because it provided a much more in depth view of the music (and not just in terms of the technical stuff, either) in the interviews.

I enjoy Guitar World but on an entirely different level than I enjoyed Circus. I guess it's similar to the difference between reading Time and reading a celebrity tabloid. Different bands made the rounds -- Guitar World would be fapping over, I dunno, Lenny Kravitz? Circus was running another cover story on Slipknot. The interviews were more candid, like slunken said, and I seem to recall they were outright incorrect at times. (For example, there was an article on Iha's first solo album where the author stated that Corgan taught him how to play guitar.) And yeeessss the fan art! I also liked browsing the Rockibilia ads. It was the simple things.

[stumpycat]

And by them being more candid, this means what? That bands tended to not put on airs or engage in a lot of posturing when being interviewed by them, or that they more freely threw about possibly unpopular opinions? I was always dissuaded by a sense that the magazine was not particularly credible on the whole (which still maybe has some credence, given your anecdote about printing something very factually incorrect.) Good to know that the bands might have actually had more interesting things to say in the interviews, though.

[BurtSampson]

another interesting thing to think about is how Billy is so wrapped up in the aesthetics of the original Pumpkins and how he thinks that contributed to his success that he has always tried to replicate it. D'arcy -> Melissa -> Ginger -> Nicole. James -> Jeff

Hell even in Zwan, he hired Paz to play bass and moved Pajo (the asian) to guitar. It's absurd

[z e r o]

True but you've got to understand that SP has to be as visually diverse as it is musically diverse. It just wouldn't work as a bunch of average white guys in t shirts. The reason Billy always follows the same template for the lineup is simple- first of all, he needs a guitarist who plays well and who looks good, but looks different to him and yet doesn't upstage him. Cue guitarists with Asian heritage- they can often play well and provide, shall we say, a clear visual contrast to Billy. SP is a cartoon band and Billy only hires people who are, or at least look like, cartoon characters. The closest he's come to hiring a non-Asian guitarist was Dave Navarro for Spirits in the Sky and he's kind of androgynous and exotic as well. (there's also Matt Sweeney, but Billy needed a trucker-cap wearing hobo to show that Zwan had indie credibility.)

As for attractive female bassists, they are in greater supply than proficient female guitarists, but even if Billy could have both, which I'm sure he would like, simply having both on stage at once would make him look like he was overcompensating, so he has to go for a male guitarist. He sticks to that template for shallow reasons but they are, in fact, necessary for the band to make sense as a live spectacle and have a broader appeal.

[Ram27]

He should consider giving more of a damn about the drummers.

[slunken]

Originally Posted by stumpycat

And by them being more candid, this means what? That bands tended to not put on airs or engage in a lot of posturing when being interviewed by them, or that they more freely threw about possibly unpopular opinions? I was always dissuaded by a sense that the magazine was not particularly credible on the whole (which still maybe has some credence, given your anecdote about printing something very factually incorrect.) Good to know that the bands might have actually had more interesting things to say in the interviews, though.

For me it means they could say things a little more off the record because the interviews were not very in depth and they knew it wouldn't be read by an audience the size of rolling stone magazine for example. In other words the artist would not take a circus interview as seriously as another.

[slunken]

And like even billy admitted when you don't take as much time with something sometimes you get a little closer to the truth. Often the interviewed person would come across as more of a regular person in a rag publication like circus. Not so much as an artist selling billions of records.

[MyOneAndOnly]

Circus was the WWF of rock magazines

[slunken]

Coupled with a handful of semi professional and unretouched photos of said artist looking like shit.

[slunken]

Dammit Scotty I'm on the phone

[MyOneAndOnly]

Tell Monte you're busy and hang up

[null123]

edit

[juliana]

Originally Posted by scottytheoneand

Tell Monte you're busy and hang up

I miss monte's antics