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Old 08-30-2018, 05:24 PM   #301
Mals Marola
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What? Jim's drums are hardly quiet on the record, if anything they're more buried on Mellon Collie

 
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Old 08-30-2018, 05:49 PM   #302
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Billy looked really unhealthy in 2005. Speed?

 
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Old 08-30-2018, 05:58 PM   #303
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Depression and poor eating patterns I'd wager

 
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Old 08-30-2018, 06:04 PM   #304
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What? Jim's drums are hardly quiet on the record, if anything they're more buried on Mellon Collie
maybe they just sound that way to me because of the overemphasis on the vocals and brickwalled mastering. I think what I'm trying to say is the dynamic range on the drums is sort of truncated or something. There's no breathing room. It feels muddled and claustrophobic. It's like listening to a good song in a loud bar and you have to strain to hear it.

 
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Old 08-30-2018, 11:59 PM   #305
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Wow, Billy was a skinny chap in those days.
probably his best looking period. After this he got rail thin and had those amphetamine eyes, then it was all fat boi from then on

 
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Old 08-31-2018, 01:03 AM   #306
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the fuck are you trying to say
I thought it was funny to imagine god and country as being part of the tonight tonight box set single. Which is, like, exactly what I said.

 
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Old 08-31-2018, 01:19 AM   #307
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probably his best looking period. After this he got rail thin and had those amphetamine eyes, then it was all fat boi from then on
Aside from Gish era, he looked his best during the Adore era.

 
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Old 08-31-2018, 03:38 AM   #308
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i don't think billy looked unhealthy in those photos. being skinny or fat (having more or less body fat) doesn't necessarily mean someone is healthy or unhealthy. Bmi is a very limited/flawed thing but i doubt he has ever been technically underweight according to it. maybe he *was* unhealthy in some way but i don't think it's apparent from pics around this time

 
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Old 08-31-2018, 03:43 AM   #309
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the zeitgeist mixes are certainly weird/flawed by some objective standard (which he pretty much just admitted in his insta q+a). I kind of get a kick though out of how the album starts with that massive drum fill and the drums sound huge and then the guitars come in and they're even louder and then billy's vocals come in and they're even louder but it's his tiny thin voice lol

 
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Old 08-31-2018, 03:45 AM   #310
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i wonder if the mixes sucked because they were just excited to work with roy thomas baker and didn't challenge him on a bad job

 
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Old 08-31-2018, 07:09 AM   #311
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i wonder if the mixes sucked because they were just excited to work with roy thomas baker and didn't challenge him on a bad job
AKA "Trust the guy who did Bohemian Rhapsody" syndrome.

 
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Old 08-31-2018, 07:35 AM   #312
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i wonder if the mixes sucked because they were just excited to work with roy thomas baker and didn't challenge him on a bad job
Can't imagine that's the case, as most of what was done since sounds the same (see: Solara).

 
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Old 08-31-2018, 09:07 AM   #313
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vocals on ZG seem too loud because the melodies are boring and lyrics are really bad. if they turned them down you would probably complain about vocals being too buried because you would have to listen to a wall of boring guitars. it's not a mixing problem, it's a songwriting problem.

 
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Old 08-31-2018, 10:16 AM   #314
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Yeah I never really had too much of an issue with the vocals being too loud on Zeitgeist; I can still hear the instrumental parts fine. The problem is that some of the lyrics suck and his voice sounds really bad on certain songs. The Billy Choir thing also ruins a few songs.

Last edited by Zer0 Hour : 09-07-2018 at 11:39 AM.

 
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Old 09-01-2018, 04:19 AM   #315
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Needs more sad

 
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Old 09-10-2018, 07:19 PM   #316
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Zeitgeist was just a big hunk of disappointment. The mix and in particular the focus on the vocals killed it stone dead. The only Pumpkins album I barely listen to. Some of the songs could be good but all are ruined to varying degrees. Many sounded a lot better live, confirming that the studio decisions were fucking awful. A remaster could salvage it but it'd take a lot of work.

Oceania, by contrast is a solid album. it's not SP1 and the drums are a big meh but there are few shudder-inducing moments. Saw the pre-release shows where they played about half the album and Pinwheels, Oceania and Pale Horse were great. This didn't quite carry over to the recordings but they're still good tracks. Coming after the misstep that was TbK it was encouraging, despite Byrne not being a good fit. But it didn't sell so it got tossed overboard.

Monuments I have mixed feelings about. I actually like quite a few of the songs but Billy phones in the lyrics somewhat which detracts. Like on the song Monuments, really like the track but the lyrics are lightweight.

In more than a decade of wrong turns the biggest error is probably abandoning the American Gothic sound. This is the route they should have continued on, imo.

 
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Old 09-10-2018, 09:02 PM   #317
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but only Rose March was good on American Gothic

 
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Old 09-10-2018, 09:07 PM   #318
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rose march is not good. fuckin slow poked gtfooh

 
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Old 09-10-2018, 09:30 PM   #319
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I'm with you Elphy. Rose March is the only song I like on American Gothic too. It was the one thing that gave me hope moving forward after all those lackluster singles that they released.

I love this performance. Jeff's noodling actually adds to the song here.



Feels like vintage SP to me.

 
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Old 09-10-2018, 09:32 PM   #320
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bleeding the orchid

Aaaaaaaaa AAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAaaaaaaaaa

aaaaaaa AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA, AAAAAAAAAAAaaaaaaaaaAAAAAAAAAAAAAA

 
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Old 09-10-2018, 10:06 PM   #321
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ok i listened to rose march and it is pretty good. i take it back.

 
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Old 09-10-2018, 10:24 PM   #322
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Originally Posted by fuzzyroes View Post
I'm with you Elphy. Rose March is the only song I like on American Gothic too. It was the one thing that gave me hope moving forward after all those lackluster singles that they released.

I love this performance. Jeff's noodling actually adds to the song here.



Feels like vintage SP to me.
Damn, listening to this performance was way more of a nostalgic experience than I was expecting - if they'd approached it on AG more like this, more of an acoustic/electric hybrid instead of the dry thing we actually got, it mighta been a genuinely great little EP, instead of just an OK one

 
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Old 09-10-2018, 10:25 PM   #323
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Or maybe they did do it like that & my memory's just feeding me with "alt facts" right now

 
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Old 09-10-2018, 10:30 PM   #324
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Chris Isaak version ain't bad either tbh, just re-discovered that one


 
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Old 09-11-2018, 11:55 AM   #325
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Originally Posted by RenewRevive View Post
Zeitgeist was just a big hunk of disappointment. The mix and in particular the focus on the vocals killed it stone dead. The only Pumpkins album I barely listen to. Some of the songs could be good but all are ruined to varying degrees. Many sounded a lot better live, confirming that the studio decisions were fucking awful. A remaster could salvage it but it'd take a lot of work.

Oceania, by contrast is a solid album. it's not SP1 and the drums are a big meh but there are few shudder-inducing moments. Saw the pre-release shows where they played about half the album and Pinwheels, Oceania and Pale Horse were great. This didn't quite carry over to the recordings but they're still good tracks. Coming after the misstep that was TbK it was encouraging, despite Byrne not being a good fit. But it didn't sell so it got tossed overboard.

Monuments I have mixed feelings about. I actually like quite a few of the songs but Billy phones in the lyrics somewhat which detracts. Like on the song Monuments, really like the track but the lyrics are lightweight.

In more than a decade of wrong turns the biggest error is probably abandoning the American Gothic sound. This is the route they should have continued on, imo.
I agree with most of that. Oceania isn't perfect but I feel like, from a songwriting standpoint, it's much more interesting than Zeitgeist. I don't actually think Billy was phoning it in on ZG but it sounds that way in a lot of spots and some of the lyrics just fucking SUCK. Oceania has some weak lines and licks here and there but it has a number of songs I revisit a good bit. ZG is just so forgettable aside from a couple of tracks. Had he at least included Stellar and the title track on the album (rather than making them bonus tracks) and dumped For God and Country, Doomsday Schlock and some other tracks, maybe ZG might have been worthy.

Monuments, aside from Tiberius and Drum & Fife, just feels like Billy took the worst parts of TFE and his post-ZG/pre-Oceania material and made a (short) album out of it. It's definitely the Pumpkins release I listen to the least.

I liked American Gothic though. Sunkissed, Again and The Rose March are all good. I think Pox would have been better as an all electric, heavy song, but it's not awful.

 
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Old 09-11-2018, 12:18 PM   #326
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I don't even consider MTaE "Smashing Pumpkins". It's Billy, Jeff, and the guy from Motley Crue. That's not a band. He should've released it as a solo album or a different name.

I agree though, Oceania feels more like a band album. So I consider that Pumpkins.

And anything with Jimmy on it is automatically Pumpkins anyway (unless it's Zwan).

 
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Old 09-11-2018, 03:31 PM   #327
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Zeitgeist is Billy looking at what Green Day did on American Idiot and thinking that it was good.

 
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Old 09-11-2018, 04:45 PM   #328
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I don't even consider MTaE "Smashing Pumpkins". It's Billy, Jeff, and the guy from Motley Crue. That's not a band. He should've released it as a solo album or a different name.

I agree though, Oceania feels more like a band album. So I consider that Pumpkins.

And anything with Jimmy on it is automatically Pumpkins anyway (unless it's Zwan).
Yeah, MTaE is some old bullshit.

 
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Old 09-11-2018, 05:34 PM   #329
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Originally Posted by Mals Marola View Post
Damn, listening to this performance was way more of a nostalgic experience than I was expecting - if they'd approached it on AG more like this, more of an acoustic/electric hybrid instead of the dry thing we actually got, it mighta been a genuinely great little EP, instead of just an OK one
the roses at your feet part sends me

I don't like the intro, and the vocals are still not what I want

but otherwise it's solid and I'm glad it exists

 
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Old 09-11-2018, 05:36 PM   #330
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united states is still killer though. and live it was even better. blows the roof off.

 
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