Postfinal Debate about Zeitgeist

[BurtSampson]

Originally Posted by MacGyver

You guys are ridiculous. Remember when you were chompin' at the bit for a shitty ass mp3 somebody recorded with their cell phone of "tarantula"?? It was just a rehearsal jam, not even a complete song, but yet everybody started making these speculations of how the album would sound.. For the most part, at first anyway- alot of folks here liked the album despite its cheesy moments... I think once the novelty wore down of a "new" SP album, thats when everyone started jumping on the bandwagon bitching and complaining about every little thing...

Here are the facts people: It had been several years since anything new from SP...Within a matter of just months, we got a great DVD/Documentary that was NOT shitty whatsoever.. We also got lots of extra b-sides and American Gothic.. If you look at Zeitgeist as a whole (including the DVD and extra songs), it's really not THAT bad...I hate the Billy choir just as much as you do, but this era had good songs that I still listen to even today.. (Neverlost, 7 shades, For God, Sunkissed, Rose March, 99 Floors, Stellar, Ma Belle,).. Despite its crappy moments, I refuse to hate on Zeitgeist and over-analyze the shit out of it... It's the last album/tour we got with Jimmy so why not be at least a little thankful??

because Doomsday Clock and Billy in a head dress won't let me be thankful

[BurtSampson]

I love life every day
in each and every way
Kafka would be proud
to find out

It's the means that has me spooked

Please don't stop, it's lonely at the top, these lonely days, will they ever stop?

A GROWN MAN WROTE THESE LYRICS

[redbreegull]

I never caught that Kafka line before what the fuck is that supposed to mean? was BiCorg feeling a bit arthropod-esque that day or something

[RenewRevive]

Originally Posted by amoergosum

Nope, it has an awful dynamic range >>>
http://www.dr.loudness-war.info/inde...lbum=zeitgeist

ugh.

[Slurpee]

Once you have cleared your mind of every expectation, Zeitgeist is kind of fun to listen to, like watching a bad movie. But it will never be good. Never, ever.

[Kahlo]

Originally Posted by redbreegull

I never caught that Kafka line before what the fuck is that supposed to mean? was BiCorg feeling a bit arthropod-esque that day or something

Burt missed out a line:

Kafka would be proud, to find out
i'm certain of the end
it's the means that has me spooked

doesn't really need much explaining. I do like these lyrics, even if they are a bit cheesy

[Trotskilicious]

what about the robber button

[Kahlo]

http://forums.netphoria.org/showthread.php?t=175761

[amoergosum]

Billy Corgan and Jimmy Chamberlin discuss the making of Zeitgeist >>>

[amoergosum]

Originally Posted by MacGyver

I get the feeling that one of Jimmy's breaking points was listening to Billy's "GROUNDBREAKING" idea about Teargarden.. He probably just thought it was BS, and wanted to do another record (which is exactly what Billy ended up doing anyway).

In this 2007 interview Billy talked about the project, probably for the first time publicly >>>

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ODyiD3yptOw#t=20m2s

[BurtSampson]

never heard that Zeitgeist interview, it was really interesting. I feel like the making of that album is so mysterious.

[amoergosum]

I love how Billy and Jimmy showed what the original versions of some of the songs sounded like.
The discussion about The Shuffle was very funny.
Jimmy Chamberlin:
"JC don't play that." ...

>>>
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1sQwiIAhALM#t=2m13s

[Monet LSD]

Yes, and I love how JC takes something that he hates (the main beat he described is the same one throughout Tarantula) and just makes it badass. Just absolutely kills it.

[1337]

Maybe this discredits my Pumpkins fandom to you people, but I never read nearly this much into the production of Zeitgeist. Or the lyrics, for that matter. Or the Billy-orchestra. You people actually pay attention to and let this shit affect you like this?

Zeitgeist, in my opinion, is a way better album than Oceania. Sound-wise, lyrically and vocally. I've never EVER heard anything b0lly has done that repulsed me the way Oceania did as a whole the first time I listened to it from start to finish. The songs are BAD. The lyrics are embarrassing and awful. And it sounds like absolute shit with those saccharine-rich keyboards and drums that sounds like Byrney's beating on some cardboard boxes and a plastic basket filled with thumbtacks.

There's your production failure. His name is Bob Ludwig, and he ruins everything he puts his hands on.

Zeitgeist at least resembled an SP album in sound. Oceania sounds like a bad MSOTS follow-up by Zwan. The lyrics and the vocal performance alone on Oceania sink the album, not to mention b0lly is aping numerous past-Pumpkins songs to try and give a bunch of the Oceania tracks wings.

It just boggles my mind that people rag on Zeitgeist and yet praise Oceania like it's the "new Siamese Dream" or something.

[Kahlo]

Oceania repulsed you

lol

I'm just jealous you had any kind of strong emotional reaction to it. Honestly. At best most of us went 'this is....ok'

[amoergosum]

Originally Posted by 1337

Zeitgeist, in my opinion, is a way better album than Oceania.

...no doubt about it.

[1337]

Originally Posted by Kahlo

Oceania repulsed you

lol

I'm just jealous you had any kind of strong emotional reaction to it. Honestly. At best most of us went 'this is....ok'

I'm not kidding; it literally did

I sat down with excellent, quality headphones in a comfy armchair like a total nerd and followed along with the lyrics and everything, and I was baffled at how awful the album is. I literally said out loud to nobody in particular, "what the fuck is this SHIT?"

and I stand by that, because it hasn't grown on me an ounce since.

Okay..."Panopticon" isn't that bad, but it's nothing great by Billy's standards, either.

And that's the problem I have with the record: I've been able to warm to and appreciate everything this guy's done, even at his so-called worst (Zwan). But this album -- that I wanted to love from the start as the "Great Pumpkin Comeback" -- turned me off instantly. Like a fucking lightswitch

it's just sad when I'd rather listen to "Owata" on repeat than any one song on Oceania once.

[Monet LSD]

Originally Posted by 1337

I'd rather listen to "Owata" on repeat than any one song on Oceania once.

Woah, woah, wait, what?

Disliking Oceania is valid, but there's nothing worse than studio Owata.

[1337]

OMG just got acknowledged by superfan Monty

PUNKINFREEKOUTENGAGE!!1!

[1337]

Originally Posted by Monet LSD

Woah, woah, wait, what?

Disliking Oceania is valid, but there's nothing worse than studio Owata.

I've taken serious Netphoria-level heat on the O-board for admitting to my love for the first two minutes of Owata

and I can name you at least a dozen Corgan-penned tracks that are "shit next to a Stop sign" compared to it.

[Monet LSD]

Originally Posted by 1337

OMG just got acknowledged by superfan Monty

PUNKINFREEKOUTENGAGE!!1!

What the fuck are you talking about?

Originally Posted by 1337

I've taken serious Netphoria-level heat on the O-board for admitting to my love for the first two minutes of Owata

Well, that says something.

Originally Posted by 1337

I can name you at least a dozen Corgan-penned tracks that are "shit next to a Stop sign" compared to it.

What does Shit Next To A Stop Sign mean? And let's hear that list.

[1337]

1. One Diamond, One Heart
2. The Celestials
3. Pomp and Circumstance
4. Sorrows (In Blue)
5. Wildflower
6. Tom Tom
7. In My Body
8. Endless Summer
9. With Every Light
10. Starz
11. Spangled
12. Desire

could probably do a top 25 if you pressed, but why bother?

[reprise85]

in my body is a great fucking song. so is desire and with every light

endless summer is p. good too

[Dogfighter28]

No one who likes Zeitgeist better than Oceania is a proper person

[Dogfighter28]

And the same goes for anyone who thinks Oceania is good enough to be considered canon.

[DeadOpera]

don't feed the trolls.

[1337]

Originally Posted by Dogfighter28

No one who likes Zeitgeist better than Oceania is a proper person

I could say the same thing about somebody who openly praises Oceania

but I won't.

[reprise85]

zzzzzzzzzzzzzz

[1337]

Originally Posted by DeadOpera

don't feed the trolls.

Not that I care

but what's with the constant "troll" labels and shitty rep remarks every time somebody makes a post someone else doesn't agree with?

I'm generally curious about this. Like, I know it's Netphoria and all, but the fact that some of you go out of your way to let routine opinions bother you to the point where you have to comment on it via reputation points is hilarious

cry me a fucking river already

[reprise85]

what makes you think reputation takes emotion or involvement of more than 5 seconds