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Old 08-25-2019, 09:10 AM   #61
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lol

 
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Old 08-25-2019, 01:34 PM   #62
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Originally Posted by wHATcOLOR View Post
this surprised me. 12 hours to record that into bit seems insane. i don't understand what nuances could they possibly be obsessing over for it to require 12 hours
I don't agree with the poster suggesting the playing of the intro played a big part.
I can't remember where I read/heard it nowóI think maybe it was the soundopinions audio interview with Butch Vigóbut Butch goes into detail about that process and from what I can remember, Butch was talking about all the time they spent trying different amps, getting the compression just right, etc. ...even to the extent of leaving the studio to try other setups (in storage? the instrument store? I forget.) So it was really the engineering that took so long.

 
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Old 08-25-2019, 01:43 PM   #63
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Of course, that's still really obsessive for 15 seconds of clean guitar sound. In hindsight, though, it makes sense. It's an iconic intro for one of the most successful, well-known songs Billy ever did. I guarantee you Today ended up being much bigger than even those two were hoping.

 
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Old 08-25-2019, 03:51 PM   #64
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I mean it's still silly. Even if Corgan and Vig are hyper-focused on the tone after 12 hours, 99% of people will hear it and think 'oh, that's a clean guitar'

or not even that, they'll think 'oh, that's a catchy riff'

I mean i'm a crazy nerd and just listen to live boots. The most iconic studio SD moment for me is the slight phaser on the Cherub Rock intro

 
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Old 08-25-2019, 04:24 PM   #65
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Originally Posted by selection7 View Post
I don't agree with the poster suggesting the playing of the intro played a big part.
I can't remember where I read/heard it now—I think maybe it was the soundopinions audio interview with Butch Vig—but Butch goes into detail about that process and from what I can remember, Butch was talking about all the time they spent trying different amps, getting the compression just right, etc. ...even to the extent of leaving the studio to try other setups (in storage? the instrument store? I forget.) So it was really the engineering that took so long.
I think I'm that poster, but I made no suggestions of my own about it, all I did was quote Butch Vig.

Butch Vig said, "the intro for Today took a LOT of takes to get the perfect sound and feel". That sounds to me like he's making a point about the number of times Billy had to retry it.

Last edited by he/she/it : 08-25-2019 at 04:34 PM.

 
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Old 08-25-2019, 05:31 PM   #66
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I think I'm that poster, but I made no suggestions of my own about it, all I did was quote Butch Vig.

Butch Vig said, "the intro for Today took a LOT of takes to get the perfect sound and feel". That sounds to me like he's making a point about the number of times Billy had to retry it.
I meant Trev just a couple of posts above me, not you.
Anyway, yes, Billy apparently took a lot of takes. And that could mean 30 minutes at most due to trying different things and discussing it. There's not enough variations of ways to try it that there's anything in hour 2 Billy would be doing that could be different than hour 1, much less hour 12.

Since I'd heard straight from the source that most of that time was spent on equipment setup, I figured I'd share.

 
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Old 08-25-2019, 07:43 PM   #67
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I meant Trev just a couple of posts above me, not you.
Ah, ok.

 
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Old 08-25-2019, 09:43 PM   #68
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this is great, thanks.

 
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Old 08-25-2019, 11:07 PM   #69
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Originally Posted by WakaFlocka View Post
Billy (on Geek USA): After two minutes, a song this heavy ceases to have any dynamic impact.

Jimmy (on Geek USA): "I'll play little fills that just come out of nowhere, like on Geek USA.
Those are too hard for me to try and pull off again if I'm thinking about
them. Then I realise I have to go home and practice this stuff so I can do
it live every night. "
That first Billy quote is exactly my problem with a lot of hardcore metal I've heard. After four minutes of relentless screaming, I just sort of shrug at it because it starts to feel manufactured and rote. Meanwhile, after the breakdown in TOASEarth when the heavy comes back in...it gets my blood boiling every time. That song is pretty relentless too, but there are still rises and falls in intensity, and the falls seem consciously set up to make the heavy moments feel even heavier. ...not that dynamics are any guarantee; a song still needs to be a good song to have impact.

As for Jimmy's quote, I'd always wondered about that sort of thing. Even if I was good enough to play his Geek USA part note-for-note, it would be pointless because even Jimmy doesn't devote that much time and mental effort into reproducing his studio takes live.

Last edited by selection7 : 08-25-2019 at 11:12 PM.

 
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Old 08-26-2019, 04:25 AM   #70
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from adore era recordings: "There are three songs that D'arcy really likes that probably won't make the album. She thinks I'm a fucking idiot for not putting them out.""


anyone know which songs these are?

 
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Old 08-26-2019, 10:50 AM   #71
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Originally Posted by selection7 View Post
That first Billy quote is exactly my problem with a lot of hardcore metal I've heard. After four minutes of relentless screaming, I just sort of shrug at it because it starts to feel manufactured and rote. Meanwhile, after the breakdown in TOASEarth when the heavy comes back in...it gets my blood boiling every time. That song is pretty relentless too, but there are still rises and falls in intensity, and the falls seem consciously set up to make the heavy moments feel even heavier. ...not that dynamics are any guarantee; a song still needs to be a good song to have impact.

As for Jimmy's quote, I'd always wondered about that sort of thing. Even if I was good enough to play his Geek USA part note-for-note, it would be pointless because even Jimmy doesn't devote that much time and mental effort into reproducing his studio takes live.
re:JC

A lot of times I've heard him speak, he mentions trying to be faithful to his fills that are 'signature', that are ones he hears back on the radio and wants to copy every time he plays the song, because they're integral to the song, or at least what casual fans perceive as the song*


* I'm not sure if I've ranted about this on here before, but jesus christ, the number of fans that, like, want to hear 1979, but don't start cheering until the guitar lick starts, even though JC's been doing the sig drum beat for a while....it's sad

 
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Old 08-28-2019, 09:46 AM   #72
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if there are no overdubs it's still one take, just a heavily edited take.
You think there's no overdubs on Mayonaise?

OK

 
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Old 08-28-2019, 03:38 PM   #73
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Originally Posted by Ram27 View Post
I mean it's still silly. Even if Corgan and Vig are hyper-focused on the tone after 12 hours, 99% of people will hear it and think 'oh, that's a clean guitar'
yeah, and they will think that because corg worked hard to get it right. producing isn't really about amazing a layman who will miss the nuance, it's about not getting him distracted while the important stuff is playing. it's an art. and sometimes you labour over a song intros, even if the work is not gonna be apparent to some guy on a netphoria forum.

 
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Old 08-28-2019, 03:43 PM   #74
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ur dad labored hard last night

 
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Old 08-28-2019, 05:09 PM   #75
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Originally Posted by selection7 View Post
I meant Trev just a couple of posts above me, not you.
Anyway, yes, Billy apparently took a lot of takes. And that could mean 30 minutes at most due to trying different things and discussing it. There's not enough variations of ways to try it that there's anything in hour 2 Billy would be doing that could be different than hour 1, much less hour 12.

Since I'd heard straight from the source that most of that time was spent on equipment setup, I figured I'd share.
You've never recorded a record have you? When you seek perfection it takes a lot of tiny elements to get that perfect take, compounded by the complete lack of digital editing in 92/93. It's entirely feasible he spent 2 hrs just playing the thing.

 
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Old 08-28-2019, 09:36 PM   #76
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Originally Posted by soniclovenoize View Post
You think there's no overdubs on Mayonaise?

OK
the drums. the original statement was that jimmy did it in "one take" meaning they didn't splice different takes together, and they didn't overdub drum tracks.

 
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Old 08-28-2019, 10:04 PM   #77
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you got something to say to that, soniclovenoise?

 
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Old 08-30-2019, 12:34 PM   #78
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you got something to say to that, soniclovenoise?
Not sure how to respond if his standards are that low.

 
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Old 09-03-2019, 07:02 PM   #79
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Quote:
Originally Posted by trev View Post
from adore era recordings: "There are three songs that D'arcy really likes that probably won't make the album. She thinks I'm a fucking idiot for not putting them out.""


anyone know which songs these are?
disappointed this question hasn't been answer yet

but i think we all know who could get us there

 
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Old 09-03-2019, 07:45 PM   #80
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hasn't been answer yet
sorry guys, i'm still learning the language

 
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Old 09-03-2019, 07:46 PM   #81
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also sorry, i'm fuzzy roasters
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I am not gonna wear a bunch of black sp crap and look like freakin marylin manson.

I still rock my pre mcis gear......i'll leave it to you to look like a douche bag. I for one still like to bang hot girls and blend into normal society.

 
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Old 09-05-2019, 12:29 AM   #82
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disappointed this question hasn't been answer yet
what are your thoughts on the songs?

i remember reading somewhere that darcy liked waiting, so maybe that one.

but other than that i can only make random guesses on good songs left off. maybe lmgtwty? cash car star? blissed and gone?

 
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Old 09-05-2019, 11:38 AM   #83
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my bets would be on Waiting, Let Me Give the World & i guess Blissed and Gone

 
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Old 09-05-2019, 12:22 PM   #84
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the cyber metal epic of cash car star doesn't get your dander up?

 
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Old 09-05-2019, 02:07 PM   #85
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not really

was way better on Machina 2

 
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Old 09-05-2019, 02:07 PM   #86
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there are a bunch of great outtakes from the Adore era but those 3 i mentioned above are the only ones i can think of someone calling Corgo "fucking crazy" for leaving out

 
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Old 09-05-2019, 02:36 PM   #87
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what about once in a while and czarina, fool?

 
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Old 09-05-2019, 07:01 PM   #88
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no

 
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Old 09-05-2019, 07:39 PM   #89
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satur9

 
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Old 09-05-2019, 07:48 PM   #90
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yeah that one's tite (bite) too, good call

 
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