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Old 05-22-2018, 01:45 AM   #61
FoolofaTook
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Jesus loved John.

lol

 
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Old 05-22-2018, 01:46 AM   #62
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Old 05-25-2018, 12:50 PM   #63
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I have a question about what happens to mentally retarded people when they go to heaven in Christian theology.

Like, survival of the soul after death means that some entity, some "part of you" that has your personality and a continuity of memory and anticipation with the mortal you, exists in heaven after your bodily death, correct?

So, seeing as being intellectually disabled has implications on the aspects we think of as core to self and identity— things like personality, perception, behaviours, understanding, response to stimuli, etc.— in order to really be the "same person" that died, must somebody retarded in life continue to be retarded for eternity in the afterlife?

Or, leaving the constraints and limitations of their physical bodies, the same way people aren't likely to carry physical scars, injuries, and defects into the afterlife, do mentally disabled people suddenly gain normal mental capacity? If that's the case, it seems less like a person is living on in the afterlife, and more like one physical person dying, and another entirely unrelated non-physical person being born at the same time.

Of course, compared to heavenly beings, we are probably all pretty retarded, so does that mean that none of us truly lives on after death? We're doomed to die, and to be replaced by less retarded beings?

 
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Old 05-25-2018, 01:55 PM   #64
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Of course, compared to heavenly beings, we are probably all pretty retarded
.

 
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Old 05-25-2018, 01:56 PM   #65
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What about animals? Can my dog come to heaven? I mean I know I am doomed because I am a blaspheming Christ-killer, but my dog is agnostic. Would God consider letting him in?

 
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Old 05-25-2018, 01:58 PM   #66
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what about this centipede I just killed? It had a nervous system so it has some sort of "mind" and consciousness for sure. Are centipedes too retarded for heaven?

 
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Old 05-29-2018, 11:21 PM   #67
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Um, Ma'm. What if you're a really good person but you're in a really really bad fight and your leg gets gangrene and it has to be amputated. Will it be waiting for you in heaven?

 
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Old 05-31-2018, 08:15 PM   #68
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Can Jesus dunk? y/n

 
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Old 06-03-2018, 09:43 PM   #69
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n

 
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Old 06-03-2018, 10:59 PM   #70
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why do christians martyr themselves like with this kind of thread all the time? like, ur suffering is unique?

 
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Old 06-04-2018, 09:21 AM   #71
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the christian religion flourished thanks to martyrdom

 
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Old 06-04-2018, 12:15 PM   #72
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also fatherfucking

 
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Old 06-05-2018, 11:52 AM   #73
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I am totally returning to this thread. My son had a horrible ear infection where blisters formed on his eardrum and he cried for a solid night before complaining all day every day for a week.

He finally recovered and went back to school and on his first day back put a fucking ice cream in his bag to save for later.

So I am just not in a good place right now. But I am coming back to this thread I promise.

 
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Old 06-05-2018, 07:16 PM   #74
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Hope your son feels better, that sounds awful

Best wishes

 
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Old 06-05-2018, 07:22 PM   #75
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sorry to hear vix but also lmao at the ice cream...

 
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Old 06-05-2018, 10:16 PM   #76
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Hey Vix, I'm happy to hear that your little guy is doing better!

 
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Old 06-05-2018, 11:41 PM   #77
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Jesus wept

 
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Old 06-05-2018, 11:48 PM   #78
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Will the ice cream be waiting for him in heaven?

 
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Old 06-06-2018, 01:33 AM   #79
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Disco King
I have a question about what happens to mentally retarded people when they go to heaven in Christian theology.

Like, survival of the soul after death means that some entity, some "part of you" that has your personality and a continuity of memory and anticipation with the mortal you, exists in heaven after your bodily death, correct?

So, seeing as being intellectually disabled has implications on the aspects we think of as core to self and identity— things like personality, perception, behaviours, understanding, response to stimuli, etc.— in order to really be the "same person" that died, must somebody retarded in life continue to be retarded for eternity in the afterlife?

Or, leaving the constraints and limitations of their physical bodies, the same way people aren't likely to carry physical scars, injuries, and defects into the afterlife, do mentally disabled people suddenly gain normal mental capacity? If that's the case, it seems less like a person is living on in the afterlife, and more like one physical person dying, and another entirely unrelated non-physical person being born at the same time.

Of course, compared to heavenly beings, we are probably all pretty retarded, so does that mean that none of us truly lives on after death? We're doomed to die, and to be replaced by less retarded beings?
I guess my hope would be that the Christian worldview that most Christians have is the same as the one that I have, placing value on the same things that I do. Modern healthcare has given prospective parents much more control over reproduction, and things like PGD and IVF have been used with increasing frequency, to avoid full term pregnancies and live births where the child has a genetic difference affecting long-term intellectual progress and independence. Christians have been pretty slow on the uptake of these strategies and in large part this is because there is a belief that God creates each human to be exactly the way they are, for His own purpose and glory, etc. So, part of how Christians view humans with intellectual and genetic differences has to do with honouring all members of God’s creation equally and not wanting to dishonour God by rejecting His creations. But I think there is a separate and equally significant attitude that many Christians (hopefully) have, where a person’s worth is not awarded based on how clever or skilled they are, or how rich they are, how powerful they are, etc. or how independent they can become. A person’s worth is determined by their obedience to God and their fulfilment of God’s purpose in their life. So from that perspective, somebody with a genetic difference like Down’s Syndrome isn’t seen as ‘less than’ complete, or normal, if that makes sense. We are all equal before God in this life, and the one to come. Nobody needs to change who they most fundamentally are, to be in God’s presence, because God created them, after all.

Obviously a lot of harm has been done by the church to the LGBTQ community in this regard, and many of us inside the church are deeply saddened by that. Sad that harm was caused to others, and sad that it was the one place that we thought we could count on, to be accepting of all God’s children, and sadder still that the condemnation and rejection was done supposedly in God’s name.

I don’t know many Christians who talk much about the afterlife, because despite how Christianity is usually presented, (by Christians as well as Richard Dawkins et. al.) for the Christians I know, it is not a religion that is primarily concerned with death and the afterlife, but with life in the here and now.

My 100-year old grandfather, who is still an ordained Presbytarian minister and yet what most people would call an atheist, is quite happy with the idea that there is no afterlife, because he has been widowed twice and is currently married to his third wife. There are definitely a lot of ways that an afterlife makes no sense to me or in fact seems like a bad idea. And our life experiences, from the death of people we cared for and emotionally invested in, usually tells us that these people really are gone and not coming back in any way, and that is why death is so painful, isn’t it?

I think, whatever happens after death, my faith is in God, not that. So, whatever God has worked out (if anything), it will be fair, and good, and right. Believing that, as I do, I don’t worry so much about the specifics. Even if I could find out more about them, my curiosity isn’t huge, because there is so much to keep me busy in this life.

I’m sorry if that is a really unsatisfying answer.

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Um, Ma'm. What if you're a really good person but you're in a really really bad fight and your leg gets gangrene and it has to be amputated. Will it be waiting for you in heaven?
I think there is a verse about this, getting a new body in heaven. I was part of a Bible study group of devout older ladies once. They were an amazing and selfless group. I was invited by a woman who lived with chronic back pain and never slept more than two hours, at night. And many of the others were in their 70s and 80s, and riddled with the usual aches and pains of that age group. So when the verse came up in our study one day, they laughed and talked about how they were looking forward to dancing in heaven. It was a really sweet moment. The woman who watched my (then preschool) son was called Merlene. The fact that her name was Merlene really sums up that group, somehow. They were very ordinary and caring ladies who had lived ordinary lives trying to do their best to honour God and be selfless and caring.

So, I kinda hope that bodies are made whole, just for those ladies, so that they can dance.

Sappy, huh. But that is the kind of sentimental shit that really makes me tick. Sorry.

Last edited by vixnix : 06-06-2018 at 02:10 AM. Reason: wrong quote

 
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Old 06-06-2018, 01:36 AM   #80
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What about animals? Can my dog come to heaven? I mean I know I am doomed because I am a blaspheming Christ-killer, but my dog is agnostic. Would God consider letting him in?
I mean, I think so. From your reports, your dog doesnít have the steely disposition probably required for hell...so I think there is a case on grounds of compassion, that he go to heaven and just cuddle up to God and feel all safe and secure. Maybe you can do his time, for himÖ?? Christianity seems big on that sacrificial love thing, after all.

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what about this centipede I just killed? It had a nervous system so it has some sort of "mind" and consciousness for sure. Are centipedes too retarded for heaven?
Iím not a huge fan of centipedes, so I wonít be bothered if they donít make it. But I am just one eternal soul, I guess, so it probably isnít going to be a place determined by my preferences. And knowing my luck, it will probably be full of stuff I don't like, just like this world is. That's my expectation. So I'm going to assume they will go to heaven.

 
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Old 06-06-2018, 01:37 AM   #81
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Can Jesus dunk? y/n
I mean his repertoire of magic tricks (ILLUSIONS) included turning water into wine and walking on water - also, coming back from the dead. So I reckon dunking is within the realm of possibilities, you know?

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n
Well, ok then.

Maybe not.

 
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Old 06-06-2018, 01:38 AM   #82
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why do christians martyr themselves like with this kind of thread all the time? like, ur suffering is unique?
This specific thread, I made because the board was deathly quiet and somebody mentioned that there arenít big arguments about politics or religion any more so I thought I would stir up some dust.

Sorry about the martyring.

 
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Old 06-06-2018, 01:40 AM   #83
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the christian religion flourished thanks to martyrdom
This could well be true. I have never thought about it. But I can imagine that seeing a lot of people who were prepared to die for their faith gave people in the ancient world pause for thought.

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also fatherfucking
Hmm. Not that I know of. This always and forever will remind me of that episode of Nip/Tuck where the adopted son supposedly wants cosmetic surgery to look more like his Dad because he loves his Dad so much, and then it turns out that they are a fake Dad-son anal sex exhibit at high-end parties for people who had seen it all and need something drastic and new to really get off, and the show will work much better if only they could look a little bit more alike.

That show really took me to a lot of unexpected and sad places that I will never fully be able to leave.

 
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Old 06-06-2018, 01:42 AM   #84
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Originally Posted by LaBelle View Post
Hope your son feels better, that sounds awful

Best wishes
ah thanks. Yeah it seemed pretty painful from where I was observing he is much better now, thankfully.

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sorry to hear vix but also lmao at the ice cream...
yeah I would have laughed too, if not for the week immediately preceding that event.

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Hey Vix, I'm happy to hear that your little guy is doing better!
thanks fuzzy

 
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Old 06-06-2018, 01:43 AM   #85
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Jesus wept
Still looking for video footage of a song with this title, sung by a group called the U.S.S. Hit Machine during a 24 hour long televised music marathon raising money for mental health, in 2004, in New Zealand. I saw it at 3:00am and was like this is the greatest fucking thing I have ever seen, just one lanky guy with an electric guitar and another guy on drums if I remember right. One of those moments where I was like I canít believe this actually exists, life has fulfilled its ultimate purpose, I need to see these guys live. Saddest and most depressing act I have ever had the cosmic pleasure to behold. From Christchurch. Typically, I have never been able to find out ANYTHING about them and I think it might have been a joke group that formed in an emergency when producers realised there was an empty slot. Still probably the greatest moment of live television, for me.

 
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Old 06-06-2018, 01:44 AM   #86
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Will the ice cream be waiting for him in heaven?
Only if God arranges for retrieval from Malaysian landfills. Not sure how to verify those details unfortunately. But my hunch is that his chances are not good. Moral of the story, if you have ice cream, eat it now!

 
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Old 06-06-2018, 01:55 AM   #87
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I was referencing Hellraiser

 
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Old 06-06-2018, 01:57 AM   #88
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https://youtu.be/P_Sey6jAXWY

 
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Old 06-06-2018, 03:02 AM   #89
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vixnix you should check out silence. excellent film about jesuits in japan.

 
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Old 06-07-2018, 08:48 AM   #90
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I was referencing Hellraiser
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Havenít watched this in ages...classic.

 
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