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10-09-2016, 11:40 PM | #1 |
Amish Rake Fighter
Location: California
Posts: 23
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Billy's Singing, Change in Singing effected Post-Adore work?/Production Rant
It's pretty clear that Billy changed up his singing around Machina. To me it sounds like he started pushing the notes up through the top of his throat into his nose and head making it sound WAY more nasally and whiny. It's interesting to me articles that mention that Butch Vig "didn't care for the midrange in Billy's voice." It's my opinion that Billy's voice sounded much better in the Gish-Adore days and I think that the mid-range thing Butch was talking about is the nasally-whine I am referring to. I think Billy sounds so much more badass doing his breath-y, soft, dreamy-style vocals and the occasional scream. What do you guys think? Do you think quality of some of the later Pumpkin's work, including Machina, suffered due to him changing up his singing? Something that interests me is that one of the only later Pumpkins songs of any worth is "Song for a Son" and in that song he definitely is laying off the nasally-thing (although it's still there a little bit) and he's using some chest voice blended in.
Billy needs to get a real f&*%ing producer in there and guide him through some of this stuff. Sorry, Howie Weinberg is a shit producer and he needs to stick with doing what he does best.. mastering. Monuments is pathetic. Oceania = mediocre at best. Pretty apparent Bjorn Thorsrud is not even close to the level of Producer Billy Needs. I don't mean to rant but it makes me so angry that Billy could create such awesome work at one point and then piss it all away. Granted, there's many reasons for this happening but the Producer thing is a major one in my mind. |
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10-09-2016, 11:58 PM | #2 |
Socialphobic
Location: I’ve been trying to move to the Nordic countries for 5 years but the cost is astronomical to become an expatriate
Posts: 14,679
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Anyway here's Anti-Hero
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10-10-2016, 12:37 AM | #3 |
Apocalyptic Poster
Posts: 1,764
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Best damned Californian Amish rake fighter I've ever seen...
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10-10-2016, 01:29 AM | #4 |
dumb
Location: $8.6 million embezzled funds
Posts: 11,365
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is the amish rake fighter supposed to be some sort of SP joke?
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10-10-2016, 01:53 AM | #5 |
Demi-God
Location: a house in new orleans
Posts: 352
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I think his voice in zwan and on tfe is just fine. In fact sounds pretty good with him pushing from his diaphragm and not his head or throat voice. That really came full force during those long zg area residencies and shows. I feel like he adopted that style to save his voice as he got older. Doing the whole throaty singing and consonant dropping are a direct result of this. Billy was never a great singer but he was the singer of the smashing pumpkins. Arguably one of the most original creative band of their time.
To argue the production is kinda the same but also a way larger argument. Adore was vocally obsessively produced and it is almost impossible to argue that those vocals aren't his best. That airy breathy thing is fantastic you're right. But let's be honest since zeitgeist the ambiance and subtlety of the music has been missing. They catapulted the vocals and made the songs sound polished and completed. Who is missing in that equation? It ain't Jeff, no offense. Real singers like Vedder and Springsteen have taken to aging and have actually gotten better vocal ranges now. No. They aren't perfect and the boss live definitely bothers me but they don't sing like deaf people dropping letters fro wors |
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10-10-2016, 02:06 AM | #6 |
Apocalyptic Poster
Posts: 1,764
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Damn these are some fine rake fighters!
For as long as the band will be around- so will the vocals |
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10-10-2016, 02:14 AM | #7 |
Demi-God
Location: a house in new orleans
Posts: 352
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Ps. Crazy people that are rich don't hire real producers whom will tell them how to sing. They hire yes men for the money.
Otherwise how do you explain mtae and that subsequent tour? |
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10-10-2016, 02:39 AM | #8 |
Amish Rake Fighter
Location: California
Posts: 23
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Haha qwerty! Thanks for the compliment btw..
And yes jakob! I agree, I get your point about aging and having to exercise some new muscles to save your voice as you get older and also agree about Adore being his some of his best vocals.. I just feel like he doesn't have to do that whiny/nasally thing as much as he does.. For example on "Song for a Son"... It's still there but its done tastefully. I wonder if James and D'arcy have any thoughts on this kind of stuff? If they actually make another record together will they, specifically D'arcy, influence Billy to work on some of that vocal stuff and bring some quality back? She definitely had LOTS to say about Bill's vocals throughout time. On YouTube there's some interview where she called some Chicago radio station around 2009 to ask about the Silversun Pickups and was saying some critical stuff about Billy's voice. I loved it!!! |
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10-10-2016, 02:43 AM | #9 | |
Demi-God
Posts: 412
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Quote:
I don't know the name of the thread though. It's buried here somewhere though. |
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10-10-2016, 02:50 AM | #10 | |
Socialphobic
Location: Your god damn living room
Posts: 10,000
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Quote:
records these days are pretty much always autotuned and/or pitch-corrected in some way; billy, what with wanting to make a record that "the kids" truly wanted to listen to, was still not going to go down this avenue so basically they just did the analog version of it, choosing the best take for every vocal note or syllable to get the same kind of "perfect vocal track" the pop artists of today are putting out via digital editing, etc it wasn't about bill being a shitty singer or anything |
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10-10-2016, 02:55 AM | #11 | |
Demi-God
Location: a house in new orleans
Posts: 352
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Quote:
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10-10-2016, 03:54 AM | #12 |
Demi-God
Posts: 310
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10-10-2016, 04:14 AM | #13 |
Just Hook it to My Veins!
Location: František! How's the foot of your turtle?
Posts: 32,743
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10-10-2016, 09:57 AM | #14 |
Ownz
Posts: 880
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10-10-2016, 03:20 PM | #15 |
Amish Rake Fighter
Location: California
Posts: 23
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Word.
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10-10-2016, 09:04 PM | #16 | |
Demi-God
Posts: 412
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Quote:
Billy wouldn't spend the precious cash to have all that work done if he didn't need it but if you wanna believe otherwise then go ahead, I'll allow it. Last edited by Jelly Blossom : 10-10-2016 at 09:12 PM. |
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10-10-2016, 09:36 PM | #17 |
Socialphobic
Location: montreal
Posts: 11,676
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the exaggerated nasal voice worked for machina. billy was playing a caricature of himself and the production pushed that nasal voice even further on machina 2.
but of course everyone preferred the soft dreamy SD vocal production. |
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10-10-2016, 10:04 PM | #18 |
dumb
Location: $8.6 million embezzled funds
Posts: 11,365
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weren't the SD vocals run through a phaser as well?
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10-10-2016, 10:26 PM | #19 |
Amish Rake Fighter
Location: California
Posts: 23
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T&T.. Interesting point. I never thought about the Glass/caricature thing and if that had anything to do with style of the vocals on Machina.
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10-10-2016, 10:38 PM | #20 | ||
Demi-God
Posts: 412
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Quote:
RED ALERT who's got a Something Awful account http://forums.netphoria.org/showthread.php?t=182663 These are the engineer's words, not mine from post #16 of that thread: Quote:
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10-10-2016, 10:49 PM | #21 |
Minion of Satan
Location: Banned
Posts: 8,874
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I know people's voices change as they age and that nobody sounds the same in their '50s as they do in their '30s, but Corgan's current singing style sounds more like a purposeful aesthetic choice than a necessity of age, and it also sounds really shitty. He sings like he has a wah-wah pedal in his fucking mouth these days. He's all, "this is a seehawng fer a seeuhn..."
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10-10-2016, 11:00 PM | #22 |
Braindead
Location: PROWLING THE BADLANDS
Posts: 17,399
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i just think the change in his singing comes from not having the energy to sing like he did when he was young anymore.
he's not a naturally great sounding singer - that 'breathy' singing and youthful snarl that he had, were essentially his (very much successful) ways of hiding the fact that his abilities as vocalist are very limited. now he just goes full head voice on everything, because he can't be fucked singing dozens of takes in the studio and perfecting on that master take, or beating himself up live trying to sound good. singing in a full head voice is more 'correct', and it's more 'reliable' for pitch accuracy, but it also projects a very different timbre, that only really works for some singers (usually of lower registers). bill is definitely not one of them. |
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10-10-2016, 11:09 PM | #23 | |
Minion of Satan
Location: An oasis of horror in a desert of boredom
Posts: 7,746
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From the recent tape op thing:
http://tapeop.com/interviews/115/sma...tudio-history/ Quote:
"So the last 7 years I've been putting my vox on top b/c everyone else does. Even tho fans hate it, but that's the way I like to hear it. But also, I acknowledge that the best I'm actually capable of is singing behind the guitars." Uhhhhh, soooooo... |
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10-11-2016, 02:04 AM | #24 | |
Socialphobic
Location: Your god damn living room
Posts: 10,000
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Quote:
you can try and shit on the man further by acting like "tape comps" is the only way he could get a decent vocal take on record, but really it's just the result of a man who wants to match up to modern standards without actually using certain modern "practices" to get there |
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10-11-2016, 02:50 AM | #25 |
Braindead
Location: Ignore List
Posts: 17,229
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His vocal chords were/are probably all ripped up so he doesn't have a choice. That or age. or both.
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10-11-2016, 03:22 AM | #26 |
Socialphobic
Location: Your god damn living room
Posts: 10,000
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i'm glad he went to the extremes he did on Machina, it's one of the things that make those records distinctive
from Zwan onward though it seems like he lost a lot of his self-awareness as a vocalist or something and it's kind of been that way ever since |
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10-11-2016, 03:51 AM | #27 | |
Demi-God
Posts: 412
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Quote:
Think of it this way, if Billy could get decent/good quality vocal takes in the studio without all that additional help, then why would he pay a premium for those services? I know you want to try to defend him, but with how bad Billy's voice has always been live it's obvious that there's a lot of magic going on in the studio going on. |
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10-11-2016, 04:05 AM | #28 |
Just Hook it to My Veins!
Location: N3t4Euh Haus
Posts: 32,752
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in terms of literally hitting the notes correctly he's a totally adequate singer and has improved a lot since the early days
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10-11-2016, 04:23 AM | #29 |
Braindead
Location: Ignore List
Posts: 17,229
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I love his voice on those early albums though. You can still hear a soul.
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10-11-2016, 07:29 AM | #30 | |
Braindead
Location: PROWLING THE BADLANDS
Posts: 17,399
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Quote:
why does he still sound like shit? |
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