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03-11-2018, 05:44 AM | #31 |
Just Hook it to My Veins!
Location: František! How's the foot of your turtle?
Posts: 32,742
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03-11-2018, 08:57 AM | #32 |
Just Hook it to My Veins!
Location: Donald Trump of Netphoria
Posts: 37,215
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2003-2005
Akuma No Uta, Feedbacker, Pink, Dronevil BOOM |
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03-11-2018, 10:46 AM | #33 |
Ownz
Posts: 616
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Boris is a 5/10 band.
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05-06-2018, 06:35 AM | #34 | |
Just Hook it to My Veins!
Location: František! How's the foot of your turtle?
Posts: 32,742
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Quote:
i'll do it on sunday (might have this; tiny chance) |
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05-06-2018, 10:48 AM | #35 |
Minion of Satan
Location: Minneapolis, MN
Posts: 5,595
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I've seen you say that many times before...
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05-06-2018, 11:07 AM | #36 |
Socialphobic
Location: montreal
Posts: 11,656
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I've got this. taking pics and uploading. gimme 10 mins.
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05-06-2018, 11:15 AM | #37 |
Socialphobic
Location: montreal
Posts: 11,656
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let me know if any of the pages are too shit for your taste, i'll do them again...
& DL them cause I will delete them from my imgur account within 6 months... |
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05-06-2018, 11:36 AM | #38 |
Minion of Satan
Location: Minneapolis, MN
Posts: 5,595
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Hey hey there it is!
Muchos gracias! |
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05-06-2018, 12:32 PM | #39 |
Minion of Satan
Location: Minneapolis, MN
Posts: 5,595
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Hmmm, wait. This isn't it. That blurb about Flood manipulating the guitar signal isn't in there! I must be thinking of a different article...
Was there a Guitar Player one around this time? |
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05-06-2018, 12:56 PM | #40 |
Socialphobic
Location: montreal
Posts: 11,656
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no idea about guitar player.
page 60, the section on the left in red, the middle column: they'd run the acoustic through a cassette recorder and mixing that distortion with the clean, hardly audible, but filling out the sound (try try try). and routing the recorded versions of takes back out to effects and then mix clean and mangled (re-processed) 75%/25%. (imploding voice) |
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05-06-2018, 04:50 PM | #41 |
Demi-God
Location: a house in new orleans
Posts: 352
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So rad! Thank you for this.
That crazy acoustic manipulation I'm pretty sure you can hear clearly on if there is a God full band version Last edited by jakobtheliar : 05-06-2018 at 04:50 PM. Reason: Dumb words |
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05-06-2018, 05:07 PM | #42 | |
Minion of Satan
Location: Minneapolis, MN
Posts: 5,595
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Quote:
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05-06-2018, 05:41 PM | #43 |
Braindead
Posts: 18,608
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05-06-2018, 06:40 PM | #44 |
Dute of Seven Y's
Location: Mr. C's garage
Posts: 7,764
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Those pictures of B0ll and James...what a pack of clowns.
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06-17-2018, 12:52 AM | #45 |
Banned
Posts: 75
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Here's some really old stuff I found on a hard drive. Some guy who was trying to archive these Guitar World articles, quotes and notes about the band pertaining to songs or recording sessions. I didn't see them on your site so hopefully they will be useful.
-------------------------------- From: "hummer23" Subject: Song Project Post 1/17 ////////////` "Today" Date: Monday, August 27, 2001 5:49 AM Introducing a collection of articles I compiled a couple of years back for a web project that, well, never got off the ground I guess, and were basically long forgotten until picking up an old disk tonite. These articles chronicle comments about individual songs by the band from the years 1988-1995 and they are quoted from various songs. It is an interesting read and I hope you like the next 17 days of posts as I purge them from my archives into the amsp world. Any questions/complaints email me! "Today" According to Billy, the most notable single from Siamese Dream, Today would have never made it onto Gish. "Never would have allowed such a cheesy pop song." He explains his natural progression in perspective from Gish to Siamese in this context. "I finally got over all the hangups about what I should or shouldn't be doing. Now I just do whatever comes to me." "The obvious things are always easy to see. The day after I wrote Today, my manager heard it and said, 'It's a hit', and I guess in a way, it was." This song was one of two of the tracks on Siamese that were "the first melodies I ever sang against the chords" Corgan explains, "And when you find melodies like that, everything seems to just fall into place effortlessly. It's as though the song is already writen, and you're just trying to find the thread. It's a weird feeling when you hit upon that." "I had all of the chords and the melody, but no opening hook. At that point, we just started the song with the verse chord progression, which in and of itself is pretty catchy because of the melody. I knew I had to come up with some sort of opening riff. Then, out of the blue, I heard the opening lick note for note in my head. That's the state of mind I've trained myself to be in: I'm always looking for the guitar hook. When I added the opening riff, it completely changed the character of the song. Suddenly, I had a song that was starting out quiet and then got very loud. I could start to hear the shifts in the song as it progressed. I knew that I was going to bring that riff back in for emphasis, and I knew where I could do that." One of the surprises fans learnt after Siamese Dream was finished was the fact that Jimmy Chamberlin's drumming on the album was almost all live and recorded in one take. "For one thing, we always fight over how many tracks we have anyways... So there's never enough drum tracks to do drum overdubs." Jimmy explains one of the few overdubs on the CD with his snare swap on Today: "It's really heavy, and then it dries out when it comes into the verse, with just the drums and bass. So what I did was play the heavy part with a Pearl 61/2" chrome Free-Floating snare, which is really a kickin' snare. Then I stopped the tape and matched up a click track to where I was playing before. We then edited in the verse, which is where I used the Radio King (1940 Gene Kruppa model snare). The drum is so totally dry and crisp that you can barely hear the snares on it. In production, they kind of matched the sounds up a little, but it sounds like night and day on the dry tracks. " The video for Today was directed by Stephane Sednaoui. The clip originated from an idea by Billy to illustrate a song that finds ironic comfort amid despair. "When I told the band about the ice-cream truck, everybody was like, you've got to be kidding" Corgan says. But the truck was actually his perfect metaphor. "I remember being about 14 and there was an ice cream truck driver in the neighborhood," he explains. "One night about 10 O'clock he comes along and we run up waving. And he says, 'God, I hate this job.' Typical 17-year-old guy. And he just hands us all the ice cream left in the truck. He takes off---fuck the job, fuck the ice cream truck. For that one moment that guy was the coolest guy in the world." Today has probably been played live more then any other Pumpkins song and the band will take the song on and off the setlist. "We get sick of hearing it." Compiled by Hummer23 [1997] From: "hummer23" Subject: Song Project Post 2/17 ////////////` "Spaceboy" Date: Monday, August 27, 2001 8:51 PM The 2nd of 17 posts chronicling the bands explanations of individual Smashing Pumpkins tracks. SPACEBOY: Some excellent versions of this song (Siamese Dream) have been recorded on acoustic radio shows. "[The song is] about my little brother. He 's an interesting character. It's kind of about how he's different. He has physical handicap, it's hard to explain. He has a rare chromosomal disorder, it gives him a some what different genetic make up. He has different physical and mental problems and yet somehow by all accounts, I'm physically and mentally OK. But I feel our lives are the similar." Similar in what way? " Freaks of nature, freaks of society, I always keep going back to something by Henry Miller. No matter how much he smiled, told jokes, shook hands, patted people on the back. People still looked at him funny, they still sensed something wasn't right. I've always felt that way, that no matter how normal I appear, I was treated differently. Billy in a Guitar World tuition: "Why am I writing a song like this? At that point, I was supposed to be writing rock songs for the album; the last thing I needed was another quiet acoustic song. As I continued to mess with the riff, it occurred to me that I was writing about something that had to do with a certain kind of alienation, an 'out-of-touchness.' I began to think about my brother, and the fact that he and I share a certain identity by virtue of the similar experiences we had growing up. I felt there have been handicaps in my life that reflect the handicaps he has experienced in his. Suddenly, I had stumbled upon feelings and thoughts that moved me, and the song kind of wrote itself." "In and of itself, 'Spaceboy' doesn't seem to be anyone's favorite song. Our producer, Butch Vig, didn't think it was an album track, and the band didn't think so either. Nevertheless, the spirit of the song--what it meant to me, and what it ended up being about--made it worth putting on the album. This is a good example of where inspiration turned just another song into something that I'm proud of. Of course, if I assess 'Spaceboy' on the criterion of, was it a hit song? the answer is no. Did it have a video? No. Do people cite it as their favorite song? No. Do they scream for it at concerts? No. But does it mean something to me? Yes. Would I do it again? Yes. " "The obvious things are always easy to see. The day after I wrote 'Today,' my manager heard it and said, 'It's a hit,' and I guess in a way, it was. The success of 'Disarm' was no mystery to anyone, either. 'Spaceboy' doesn't have the same qualities as those songs; it's different, and that's what I like about it. It grew from a unique kind of inspiration." From: "hummer23" Subject: Song Project Post 3/17 ////////////` "Geek USA" Date: Tuesday, August 28, 2001 11:05 AM The 3rd of 17 posts chronicling the bands explanations of individual Smashing Pumpkins tracks. GEEK USA: "Geek USA is the only song on Siamese Dream that to me is an extension of what Gish was," Corgan wrote in his Guitar World tutorial. Geek USA had one of the most amazing solo breaks in the bands history. "People really miss the point on soloing. It's just another emotional expression. A fast solo is an emotional expression too; it's just like screaming or something. For a perfect example, the solo on Geek USA completely jacks up the song. It's not there because I wanted to play a solo, but because the song needed to kick up another notch. " In Guitar World magazine in 1994, Billy went in depth with song composition and arranging, and used Geek USA as the model. He talks about the original riff for Geek. The text is reprinted below: We played [the riff a certain] way for a while, but it never really took off and it sounded too Black Sabbath-y. What ultimately happened proved to be a good argument for observing the commandment, 'Never throw a riff away.' For if you keep playing it, and fucking with it, sooner or later you might find a use for it. This rejected riff lingered in my head for about a year. Finally, I was just fucking around with it one day, and I played a variated version. Our drummer, Jimmy Chamberlin, started playing a syncopated rhythm underneath, and, boom, that was it! I now had to decide whether this was going to be the riff I was going to sing over. I ruled against this, so I needed to find a variation to play under the vocals. I then wrote a variation to assist my vocals.The next step in writing the song was to ascertain whether I could use the initial riff for the chorus. It didn't work out, so then I had to write another part. The chorus riff is a spin-off of the verse riff. I now had the main riff, the verse riff and the chorus riff, which led me back to the initial riff. But instead of just repeating it verbatim, I overdubbed high single notes and a couple of little riffs on top of it. Even though the additions are minor, I used these little melodic guitar figures to carry the song's arrangement along. When I got up to about the two-minute point, I wanted to do something that would change up the song and send it in another direction. After two minutes, a song this heavy ceases to have any dynamic impact. You can't play it any louder, and you can't play it any faster. My trick is go in the opposite dynamic direction, which we in the band refer to as a "reset." We reset the dynamics by quieting down the song, which serves to increase the impact of it getting loud and heavy again.The funny thing is, that little insert was actually a different song idea. Remember: Never throw out a riff. After all these shifts in dynamics, the song then kicks back into ultra-heaviness. This new surge of adrenaline gave me a few choices of where to go, and in this case I opted for a guitar solo to jack up the song. After the solo section ends, I follow with a vocal section that I wrote thinking, "What can I sing over that will sustain the full momentum and weight of the song without killing everything that I've set up?" I wrote [an] ascending chordal figure specifically to address my needs at that point of the song. Initially, I was going to play a crazy solo during that section, but, while we were in the studio, I decided that a light, contained part was more appropriate. That line of thought led me to a descending riff which is played over the ascending chordal figure. What I've done here compositionally is use the technique of contrary motion to elevate the song's dynamics. What is clearly illustrated is that Geek U.S.A. was completely spawned on the guitar. It may not be the most melodic song ever written, but it's a motherfucker guitar song. I use the guitar throughout the song to bring the dynamics up and up and up. When we were done recording the song, it was a minute and a half longer than the version released on Siamese Dream. I had to look at the song as a whole and edit it down. The guitar solo section, for example, was originally a bit longer, but when I stepped back and looked at the whole picture, I realized that the solo was the least important thing. " --------------------------------- Drummer Jimmy Chamberlain tells of the time in the studio and the arrangement of songs. "Some things are going to be different when you get there, and things will definitely change. When you hear things bare on the 24-track, you can tell if the drum track is too raw, if the drums need to be more driving in certain places, or if the vocals need to be pushed. Geek, for instance, was completely rearranged once we got into the studio. "I'll play little fills that just come out of nowhere, like on Geek USA. Those are too hard for me to try and pull off again if I'm thinking about them. Then I realise I have to go home and practice this stuff so I can do it live every night. " From: "hummer23" Subject: Song Project Post 4/17 ////////////` "Cherub Rock" Date: Thursday, August 30, 2001 8:57 AM CHERUB ROCK: The first single from Siamese Dream. Breaking the ice in an interview in 1994 an interviewer complimented Billy on the solo in the song. "Tape flange. That's the trick on that one. You copy the solo onto another tape, then you run the two tapes simultaneously and alter the speed of one tape. It's geek shit, you know?" "Cherub Rock and Quiet, which are a step forward in terms of melodicism and construction, are also a step backwards in terms of dynamics. They're simpler." With the numerous overdubs on Siamese Dream critics challenged how well the pumpkins could play these songs live. ".We do what we can, you know. We're long past the notion of getting hung up about it. A song like Cherub Rock has some really good, choice overdubs in it, but the song is just as effective live, in a different way. We just try to go with it. Sometimes we try to approximate the studio version, and sometimes we just don't give a fuck." The way the video for Cherub disappointed Billy who later explained his original conception in an interview. "I kinda had this idea of us playing in this theatre and there'd be angels swinging around on ropes and there would be these, like, kids who were like metal kids and they would come into the show...See, already it sounds better than, than... like, I have this, like, I look like Jason (from Friday the 13th horror movies) at some point in the video, and... you know." Billy also talked about the pressures on him while making Siamese Dream. "When Siamese Dream was finished, the people of the record company immediately wanted to talk about the first-single choice. I wanted Cherub Rock as first single, they wanted Today. I mean, I created a monstrous emotional piece of art of an hour and the only thing people wanted to talk about was a song I wrote in 10 minutes. That has nothing to do with art anymore, or depth or complexity. It has to do with who's on top of the mountain, who decides the 'flavor of the month' and how people should react to that. " From: "hummer23" Subject: Song Project Post 5/17 ////////////` "I Am One" Date: Thursday, August 30, 2001 9:08 PM The 5th of 17 posts chronicalling a selection of Pumpkins songs and the bands collected comments on those tracks......... This will be the last singular post before I purge the rest of them onto the group in one post....Thanks for reading..... I AM ONE: Billy Corgan: "[This] is an example of a song that has a pretty decent guitar riff, but a killer bass riff to support it." I Am One first came out on a 1989 with a limited release. It is a pivotal point on the Pumpkins' first album Gish and apparently in the history of the band. Billy explains: "The only thing I didn't like about Gish has to do with I Am One. In hindsight, that was really the first true Pumpkins song. We'd done other stuff before that, but that song seemed to click us into some other gear. We recorded it at least a year before we did Gish, and put it out on a seven-inch. What disappointed me was that I didn't take advantage of the chance to re-record the song for the album. The two versions are virtually identical; in fact, I've had guys come up to me in bars and say that the solo on the seven-inch is better that the one on the record. I'm sure they have a point, because the seven-inch solo was a one take deal. " During the Siamese Dream tour, I Am One was added to the setlist for a period of time, then was altered. Billy: "We're sick of playing I Am One, right? So I came up with this idea: in the original version there is a bass break and then the band kicks back in, so instead of that, we just keep the groove going, the guitars drop out, and I wanted to do this spoken word thing. I had no idea what I was going to do. Over the course of a few weeks, I came up with kind of a running/singing dialogue that was a little bit of commentary, a little bit of whatever, keeping in line with what the song is about. For a month or two, that rap meant something, but after two months, the rap ceases to mean anything. It becomes as predictable as some solo that you'd play. It's no longer an inspired rap about how you feel, and becomes just another change in the song. Especially when people are seeing you for the second time, it's like, wow, he's saying the same shit--the first time I saw him, it seemed like it was coming from the heart, but now I know it's rehearsed! [laughs]." |
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06-17-2018, 10:26 AM | #46 | |
Minion of Satan
Location: the institute
Posts: 6,421
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Quote:
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06-17-2018, 01:44 PM | #47 |
Pledge
Posts: 238
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T&T: Thanks for the pics from the Guitar World 2000 interview. Could you also share the article that starts on page 91 ("C" No Evil. A private lesson with Billy Corgan and James Iha)? Thanks.
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06-17-2018, 02:06 PM | #48 |
Banned
Posts: 75
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Jimmy is such a boss. Even while playing the heroin houdini role in Atlanta this fucking beast was still a 'one-take jake'!
One of the surprises fans learnt after Siamese Dream was finished was the fact that Jimmy Chamberlin's drumming on the album was almost all live and recorded in one take. "For one thing, we always fight over how many tracks we have anyways... So there's never enough drum tracks to do drum overdubs." Jimmy explains one of the few overdubs on the CD with his snare swap on Today: "It's really heavy, and then it dries out when it comes into the verse, with just the drums and bass. So what I did was play the heavy part with a Pearl 61/2" chrome Free-Floating snare, which is really a kickin' snare. Then I stopped the tape and matched up a click track to where I was playing before. We then edited in the verse, which is where I used the Radio King (1940 Gene Kruppa model snare). The drum is so totally dry and crisp that you can barely hear the snares on it. In production, they kind of matched the sounds up a little, but it sounds like night and day on the dry tracks. " This stuff is a pretty interesting read, it's also nice to read Billy quotes without needing cipher decryption. I still own all my old guitar magazines and the guitar books they made for SD, MCIS, and Adore. Some of the best advice I read as a young musician many years ago were the introductory notes from Billy in the Siamese Dream book. Really good advice for me at the time, he discusses guitars, picks, strings, amps, etc. |
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06-17-2018, 02:37 PM | #49 |
Minion of Satan
Location: the institute
Posts: 6,421
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-Believe me, when we're faking, we're as bad as it gets.
-I can certainly say that the greatest things that we've ever done as a band have been unconscious acts, because unconscious acts are pure. |
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06-17-2018, 06:27 PM | #50 |
Virgo
Posts: 42,781
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hope i die before i get old
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06-17-2018, 08:02 PM | #51 | |
Minion of Satan
Location: Minneapolis, MN
Posts: 5,595
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Quote:
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06-17-2018, 08:03 PM | #52 |
Braindead
Location: TX
Posts: 16,289
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06-17-2018, 08:07 PM | #53 |
Virgo
Posts: 42,781
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ok relax
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06-17-2018, 09:09 PM | #54 |
Starbucks addicted minion
Location: Billy Corgan Kazoo Revue
Posts: 6,629
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it can still be one take. the tape was cut up and the tempo was changed, but it could still be one single take. Wasn't Mayonaise explained by Butch as the band playing one bpm, sounding too aggressive, slowing it down and JC playing to a click, but still playing parts to the original BPM? the tape was then manually cut and spliced to match whichever tempo they had settled on. Despite that quote saying 'most' its possible it was still recorded in one take. Edit =/= punch in.
Last edited by SlingeroGuitaro : 06-17-2018 at 09:14 PM. |
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06-17-2018, 10:10 PM | #55 |
Virgo
Posts: 42,781
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06-18-2018, 05:08 PM | #56 | |
Minion of Satan
Location: Minneapolis, MN
Posts: 5,595
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Quote:
Also there's no source for this "one take" blurb anyways. |
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08-24-2019, 11:30 AM | #57 |
Minion of Satan
Location: Minneapolis, MN
Posts: 5,595
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Made some updates to this.
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08-24-2019, 12:17 PM | #58 | ||
THIS IS AWESOME!!!!!!!!!!
Location: || MY NAME IS KIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIID ROCK!!
Posts: 47,245
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really cool post
Quote:
this surprised me. 12 hours to record that into bit seems insane. i don't understand what nuances could they possibly be obsessing over for it to require 12 hours Quote:
that is fascinating, i never knew the used a guitar as a drum room mic on pissant. |
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08-25-2019, 04:07 AM | #59 |
charm
Location: Naarm, Wurundjeri, Woiwurrung, Kulin Nations
Posts: 2,221
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08-25-2019, 04:17 AM | #60 | |
charm
Location: Naarm, Wurundjeri, Woiwurrung, Kulin Nations
Posts: 2,221
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Quote:
he could do a almost good enough job in one take without thinking, he would do that easily at every rehearsal and live show. but then he probably listened back to it and heard single notes that sounded louder or softer than others, or with more attack, or not with full sustained tone, and wanted to get it perfect. he could have easily played it 4 or 5 times, then go into the control room to play it back on the good speakers, analyse how it sounds with a few listens, hear back to back comparisons a few times, then go back in and try again for a few more takes. then trial and error of that process to see what sounds the best on tape to get the ideal sound he had in his head. |
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