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Old 09-02-2018, 04:34 AM   #331
smashingjj
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Originally Posted by Catherine Wheel View Post
Or you’re just masochistic or bored and that’s why you are arguing this pointless case
which one goes for you

 
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Old 09-02-2018, 07:25 AM   #332
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Originally Posted by Forgotten Child View Post
The box sets also includə a DVD, which in that case could be the final show or the Arising! Tour.
With D'arcy edited out.

 
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Old 09-02-2018, 07:55 AM   #333
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machina sales were riding the last mcis wave

but i'm not arguing with a troll. i would never get trolled. never have. never will be.

 
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Old 09-02-2018, 09:47 AM   #334
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Machina was never big, and none of its songs made any real impact. It landed, stuck around for a month and fizzled out. I only really remember TEG making any kind of impression.

At the Montreal show, the reaction to SIYL and Try in particular was very subdued compared to everything prior. It was plainly only the diehards who had any kind of enthusiasm.

Wish it were otherwise but Machina was a flop, and it never built up the reputation for being underrated the way Adore has.

 
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Old 09-02-2018, 10:11 AM   #335
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Bolly is treating fans like trash.- if he gains 3 new fans- he loses 4 with his behaviour on insta.
Machina is ok for fans- didnt have constant airplay.

Your slav from srebrenica

 
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Old 09-03-2018, 12:30 AM   #336
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Yeah I can’t believe that anyone even questions that Machina was a flop. It performed so poorly that the record label refused to release Machina II because they figured it would flop too.

And yeah, I know Billy thinks SIYL and Try are fan favorites but just speaking from personal experience I’ve yet to meet a single SP fan who lists either of those songs among their favorites. I love TEG but even that one wouldn’t crack my top 20. Maybe my top 30.

 
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Old 09-03-2018, 01:17 AM   #337
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Originally Posted by Zer0 Hour View Post
Yeah I can’t believe that anyone even questions that Machina was a flop. It performed so poorly that the record label refused to release Machina II because they figured it would flop too.

And yeah, I know Billy thinks SIYL and Try are fan favorites but just speaking from personal experience I’ve yet to meet a single SP fan who lists either of those songs among their favorites. I love TEG but even that one wouldn’t crack my top 20. Maybe my top 30.
Idk man Billy surrounds himself with sycophants in an echo chamber who believe that alternative rock starts and stops with SP no matter how bad the songs are. It's unbelievable

 
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Old 09-03-2018, 04:03 AM   #338
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I of the Mourning is good. At first the constant repetition of "radio" bugged me but it no longer does. And I love the drums.

 
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Old 09-03-2018, 08:10 AM   #339
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I of the Mourning is good. At first the constant repetition of "radio" bugged me but it no longer does. And I love the drums.
I can’t tell if I overplayed IOTM or if it just aged badly, but it seems like a slog now, and the ‘radio’ crescendo isn’t worth the 5 minutes. There are much better mid-tempo rock songs on M2.

 
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Old 09-03-2018, 08:11 AM   #340
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You're wrong

 
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Old 09-03-2018, 09:24 AM   #341
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your dong

 
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Old 09-03-2018, 09:33 AM   #342
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my dong

 
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Old 09-03-2018, 09:53 AM   #343
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who'S dong?

 
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Old 09-03-2018, 12:06 PM   #344
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also said yesterday that a studio version of Chrysanthemum exists
Speaking of Chrysanthemum. Does anyone have a link to a good live recording of this song? The only ones I’ve ever heard were so bad I could barely make anything out.

 
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Old 09-03-2018, 12:13 PM   #345
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I can’t tell if I overplayed IOTM or if it just aged badly, but it seems like a slog now, and the ‘radio’ crescendo isn’t worth the 5 minutes. There are much better mid-tempo rock songs on M2.
I used to just refer to the song a “Radio.” I think that song was the point where I realized Billy had lost a lot of his ability as a lyricist, and once I listened to HMM, it confirmed it.

Going from “graceful swans of never topple to the earth” and “if you spin your love around the secrets of your dreams” to “radio, play my favorite song, radio, radio” and “let me die for rock n’ roll” was just depressing and embarrassing.

 
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Old 09-03-2018, 01:54 PM   #346
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Originally Posted by Zer0 Hour View Post
Speaking of Chrysanthemum. Does anyone have a link to a good live recording of this song? The only ones I’ve ever heard were so bad I could barely make anything out.
doesn't exist

 
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Old 09-03-2018, 02:11 PM   #347
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I think a big part of that was his aim to write a big catchy rock opera with a lot of singalong moments. There's songs in there like Home, This Time and Atom Bomb that I don't find particularly lyrically weak. He hadn't quite reached Pale Horse levels of bad repetition yet on the whole. Adore was his peak though.

 
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Old 09-03-2018, 02:30 PM   #348
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During live performances he'd do this little 'I love you radio, cuz you're a star' etc. buildup which helped break the monotony of the end a bit. Wonder if that was on the original takes and got excised.

Last edited by Shadaloo : 09-03-2018 at 02:58 PM.

 
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Old 09-03-2018, 03:38 PM   #349
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Originally Posted by Zer0 Hour View Post
I used to just refer to the song a “Radio.” I think that song was the point where I realized Billy had lost a lot of his ability as a lyricist, and once I listened to HMM, it confirmed it.

Going from “graceful swans of never topple to the earth” and “if you spin your love around the secrets of your dreams” to “radio, play my favorite song, radio, radio” and “let me die for rock n’ roll” was just depressing and embarrassing.
I remember thinking the same thing the first time I heard "despite all my rage I am still just a rat in a cage" to be honest.

 
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Old 09-03-2018, 07:32 PM   #350
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I of the Mourning is amazing

So is Raindrops. Production is really bad on Rain. Horrific clipping in the low end

 
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Old 09-03-2018, 07:38 PM   #351
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I'm pretty sure the Machina album in general blew out my old car's speakers back in the day. That fuckin' bass - i love it tho

 
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Old 09-03-2018, 07:39 PM   #352
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Originally Posted by Zer0 Hour View Post
I know Billy thinks SIYL and Try are fan favorites but just speaking from personal experience I’ve yet to meet a single SP fan who lists either of those songs among their favorites.
the fuck? if you've never met a Pumpkins fan who included SIYL among their favorites, you probably just haven't met many Pumpkins fans

Either that or you've only run into the ones with a blanket attitude of "Machina sux"

 
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Old 09-03-2018, 08:09 PM   #353
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SIYL is absolutely perfect. That song kills.

 
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Old 09-03-2018, 09:04 PM   #354
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I've only met 1 or 2 Smashing Pumpkins fans

 
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Old 09-03-2018, 09:09 PM   #355
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The group of kids who got me into them when we were in high school jump ship very quickly after Z so I guess I mostly just know "ex-fans"

then again, that's probably what makes up most of this message board currently so it ain't that drastic a change

 
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Old 09-03-2018, 09:20 PM   #356
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TEG - 8/10 (the acapella part was the first time SP made me cringe up to that point)
R+S - 8/10 (sonic wall of sound)
SIYL - 10/10 (perfect song)
IotM - 9/10 (as a depressed teen the lyrics were relatable)
S+P - 7/10 (not bad, but just kinda there)
Tx3 - 7/10 (swear he was trying to write something like that new radicals "you get what you give" song here, but it's still pretty good despite the pop tart lyric)
HMM - 7/10 (I like the big dumb rock riff)
This Time - 9/10 (great)
TIP - 5/10 (ehh)
G+tGC - 7/10 (not a bad epic, but too long)
Wound - 9/10 (great)
CToM - 7/10 (arising version was better, but I like the lyrics)
WEL - 7/10 (pretty song, but a bit corny)
BSBT - 6/10 (arising version was better)
AoI - 8/10 (great, always liked the feeling of urgency it has)

 
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Old 09-03-2018, 09:27 PM   #357
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The Imploding Penis?

 
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Old 09-03-2018, 09:28 PM   #358
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i agree w/ most of yer assessments even though I don't agree S&P is "just kinda there," i feel like there aren't that many SP songs that just kind of grooved like that, & the song itself has always been really good to me

This Time is probably a top 3 SP song for me by this point, tbh

 
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Old 09-03-2018, 10:09 PM   #359
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just the TIP

would agree with you on S&P, it does have a good groove.

 
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Old 09-03-2018, 10:50 PM   #360
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i feel bad for This Time and S&P being my two favorite songs on Machina, because i think they're actually kinda samey

 
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