Official U.S. Government Shutdown Thread?

[redbreegull]

although you are right about syria, you're about 160% dead wrong on the healthcare bill. It misses the mark by about a thousand miles, but it's still a step up from the status quo.

[redbreegull]

I have been looking for any sort of credible info on the number of civilians killed in the american civil war, but beyond primary source data being nonexistent, there doesn't seem to be any serious research on the topic at all. Wikipedia cites some source which puts it at 50,000 dead, but no methodology is given for that figure. Seems very low. Even so, I would shocked to hear that more civilians than soldiers died, which is what would be required for "millions" (plural) of people to have perished in the war.

[Trotskilicious]

tom tomorrow nails it, as per usual

[Trotskilicious]

Have you even read the constitution?

[Trotskilicious]

Originally Posted by redbreegull

no, but that is mostly Andrew Johnson's fault, who I would nominate as a serious contender for worst pres in history. After the Civil War, black Americans made enormous strides forward in many areas from holding public office to owning businesses, to increased overall quality of life.

uhhh i mean generally but that took several decades to take place

google sharecropping k thanx

(also lincoln thought blacks were subhuman but didn't think they should be enslaved, and such)

also w was the worst prez

[Order 66]

buchanan was pretty terrible. as was pierce

and yeah i dont think it's hyperbolic at this point to say W was the worst . has to be at the bottom 3 at least

[redbreegull]

I'm not sure it's really possible to compare presidents from such different time periods. W was far, far beyond anyone else in terms of foreign affairs for sure though

[redbreegull]

worst ever lists everyone

GW Bush
Reagan
Jackson
A Johnson
Buchanan

[Order 66]

Originally Posted by redbreegull

W was far, far beyond anyone else in terms of foreign affairs for sure though

i think his foriegn blunders are actually pretty tame compared to his domestic... life in america will probably be "worse" for a generation at the very least.

[MyOneAndOnly]

got word today that some of the States I do business in will be out of funds to cover WIC and SNAP programs at the end of October. That's a seriously bad shit storm.

[Order 66]

gee thanks obama

[jczeroman]

Originally Posted by redbreegull

I have been looking for any sort of credible info on the number of civilians killed in the american civil war, but beyond primary source data being nonexistent, there doesn't seem to be any serious research on the topic at all. Wikipedia cites some source which puts it at 50,000 dead, but no methodology is given for that figure. Seems very low. Even so, I would shocked to hear that more civilians than soldiers died, which is what would be required for "millions" (plural) of people to have perished in the war.

Really? I wouldn't be. I am thinking that its normal for civilian deaths to be at least comparable to military deaths in modern warfare, but maybe I'm totally wrong.

[redbreegull]

Originally Posted by jczeroman

Really? I wouldn't be. I am thinking that its normal for civilian deaths to be at least comparable to military deaths in modern warfare, but maybe I'm totally wrong.

In a war like that, I would be surprised. As it already stands, military deaths account for the loss of about 1/5 of all white men in southern states and 8% of the total white male population in the US. Source is wikipedia but probably accurate. I could see civilian deaths, especially in the south, being in the hundreds of thousands... maybe 1, maybe 2, maybe 3, but I have a hard time seeing one million dead civilians

[Starla]

This is what I'd be paying per month for aca if I had to buy a plan through them.

http://i43.tinypic.com/vsonc5.jpg

That's higher than my car payment and monthly electric bill put together.

[Starla]

Originally Posted by scottytheoneand

got word today that some of the States I do business in will be out of funds to cover WIC and SNAP programs at the end of October. That's a seriously bad shit storm.

They have also shut down head start in several towns over my state. My daughter went to head start and it is an excellent program. I haven't seen any evidence of WIC being cut here yet... but if that happens it's going to be a mess. SNAP will start being cut back next month, but I haven't heard of it ending all together, unless they don't fund it at the beginning of 2014. Our churches that give away food here are completely inundated with people whose snap does not last them the entire month.

[Starla]

Originally Posted by redbreegull

worst ever lists everyone
Obama
Clinton
GW Bush
Bush Sr
Reagan
Carter
Nixon
Jackson
A Johnson
Buchanan

.

[redbreegull]

seriously do you have anything other than anecdotal accounts? like how this law affects other people for starters? it's good for more people than it is bad for.

also you are an idiot if you think obama belongs on a worst ever list. he's totally mediocre to upper range when compared with most other US presidents

[Starla]

Originally Posted by redbreegull

seriously do you have anything other than anecdotal accounts? like how this law affects other people for starters? it's good for more people than it is bad for.

also you are an idiot if you think obama belongs on a worst ever list. he's totally mediocre to upper range when compared with most other US presidents

I've posted enough about how this is going to affect people.

So have you enrolled yet?

[redbreegull]

Originally Posted by Starla

I've posted enough about how this is going to affect people.

So have you enrolled yet?

I already have insurance through my government job. but the ACA did allow me to stay insured after I graduated but before I got my own insurance

like I'm sorry your insurance is getting expensive but to be blunt and candid I just don't care when the flipside is that people who otherwise cannot be insured are now going to be able to, and that those people number very many. you are not going to go hungry or have to sleep in the gutter. for the hundredth time, the law is far from perfect. there are going to people who don't do as well under it. And if that minority had its way, the majority would continue paying the cost of their myopic selfishness. It's a common theme in American conservatism, from taxes to healthcare. Let's not help the disenfranchised masses if it is isn't beneficial to those who are already doing ok because er... profit is like, a biological imperative! it's wrong to make anyone give up anything to help others because freedom! the statistical evidence is all there to demonstrate that this law will give more people the opportunity to get insurance and see a doctor without being destroyed by debt than the status quo. that's it. period. and if your tea party boys and girls in congress were actually looking to replace the law with another sort of reform, people would take them more seriously. But they haven't shown us even the faintest glimmer of one viable alternative. They don't want reform. They want all their demands met at any cost. That is not the kind of attitude that lends itself to negotiation, especially since Obama has compromised with them every step of the way just to be spit on by these hick extremists.

[Starla]

Originally Posted by redbreegull

I already have insurance through my government job. but the ACA did allow me to stay insured after I graduated but before I got my own insurance

like I'm sorry your insurance is getting expensive but to be blunt and candid I just don't care when the flipside is that people who otherwise cannot be insured are now going to be able to, and that those people number very many. you are not going to go hungry or have to sleep in the gutter. for the hundredth time, the law is far from perfect. there are going to people who don't do as well under it. And if that minority had its way, the majority would continue paying the cost of their myopic selfishness. It's a common theme in American conservatism, from taxes to healthcare. Let's not help the disenfranchised masses if it is isn't beneficial to those who are already doing ok because er... profit is like, a biological imperative! it's wrong to make anyone give up anything to help others because freedom! the statistical evidence is all there to demonstrate that this law will give more people the opportunity to get insurance and see a doctor without being destroyed by debt than the status quo. that's it. period. and if your tea party boys and girls in congress were actually looking to replace the law with another sort of reform, people would take them more seriously. But they haven't shown us even the faintest glimmer of one viable alternative. They don't want reform. They want all their demands met at any cost. That is not the kind of attitude that lends itself to negotiation, especially since Obama has compromised with them every step of the way just to be spit on by these hick extremists.

Ah, so you're lucky. I'm lucky as well, since I'm on tribal health. The above is what I would be paying, if I had to.

I think you are out of touch with reality, when it comes to the poor. People are going to go into debt, because of it, people have lost their jobs, or had their hours cut, and wages lost... and there will be many who fall into the gap that won't qualify for subsidies, medicaid, and will still be going to the ER for health care. And yes, you are still going to have to pay for that too. You seem to have this imaginary thinking, that this is going to be great for everyone, and that it will just all work out somehow. At this point, it doesn't matter what political party you are for. They are all corrupt.

[Future Boy]

if the law fails to keep costs down while forcing people that can barely afford it to buy insurance it wont be better than the status quo just because some people can now be covered by insurance. That's an incredibly low and stupid bar to have. Law does some good things, but even if it works its a piece of shit insurance company giveaway.

[Trotskilicious]

i'm glad the self professed socialist "doesn't care" about single mothers getting gouged by health insurance

[Trotskilicious]

that's what i call obamunism

[Trotskilicious]

Originally Posted by Starla

I think you are out of touch with reality, when it comes to the poor

agreed

[Trotskilicious]

the profound selfishness of the poor and the underclass for shame, you should sacrifice

[redbreegull]

and like a good "self-proclaimed socialist," my first concern is for the people that are actually the most disenfranchised even if that means putting more of a strain on others. From those according, to those according.

[Starla]

If I'm not a Barack fan, does this make me a tea party-er, right wing extremist, neocon, religious right clinging to guns and religion, etc. ?

[jczeroman]

Originally Posted by Starla

This is what I'd be paying per month for aca if I had to buy a plan through them.

http://i43.tinypic.com/vsonc5.jpg

That's higher than my car payment and monthly electric bill put together.

This is more than I pay for a health plan that would be better than the highest tier offered through ACA.

[Starla]

Originally Posted by jczeroman

This is more than I pay for a health plan that would be better than the highest tier offered through ACA.

I had to pay for my insurance when I was living in ca for a a few years, and never paid that much. Although, they did drop me when I was getting too many treatments at one time. At this point, my insurance covers everything and I pay $5 co pay on medication, no matter what it costs.

I forgot where you are living. I thought you were somewhere that had universal health care.

[reprise85]

28 year old single woman, non-smoker, for a silver plan with 20k income/year:

Household income in 2014:174% of poverty level
Unsubsidized annual health insurance premium in 2014:$2,483
Maximum % of income you have to pay for the non-tobacco premium, if eligible for a subsidy:5.11%
Amount you pay for the premium:$1,021 per year
(which equals 5.11% of your household income and covers 41% of the overall premium)
You could receive a government tax credit subsidy of up to:$1,461
(which covers 59% of the overall premium)

$85 a month.