Does anyone care that Billy went back on his word and went the oldies route?

fuzzyroes · 08:38 PM

As we know, he'd always rant and rave and criticize other bands for the sell out oldies jaunts. I guess most of us realize that Billy is full of shit at this point, but this is pretty much his most blatant hypocrisy and sellout move yet. I have to imagine that there is still some fans left who looked to him as an alt-rock moral compass. Are any of you guys a little turned off?

The "strictly oldies" angle kind of annoys me a bit... I mean it's pretty much the biggest sell out thing you can do. Bands like Pixies and Pavement got away with it because they didn't make much in their prime and fans felt they deserved a payday... And even then those bands played clubs and theaters for very reasonable prices. They were great intimate experiences. It just goes back on all his blabbering. Hell, even Axl Rose wouldn't do a reunion tour unless the music he made in the 2000's was represented and performed at the shows... Hell, it was a part of the bands output, why turn your back on it.

Another thing I didn't see coming was the outrageous ticket prices... This is the exact kind of thing that the grunge scene snubbed their noses at... The big bloated rock production. When Soundgarden did their arena tour they made sure that the ticket prices would be affordable. I mean man... Those SP rates are back breakers. I guess nosebleeds are somewhat affordable at like 80 dollars when you factor in fees, but that's just no way to attend a concert.

It seems like Billy Corgan has no shame with this. I expected him to try and maintain a little integrity with the tour, at least to save face... I figured they'd at least have new music performed at these shows.

wHATcOLOR · 03-01-2018, 08:35 PM

it bothers me something fierce because he's been so consistent up until this point. i can't think of one time that he didn't follow through as promised until this thing. really grinds my gears if you know what i'm saying, and i think you do, am i right?

reprise85 · 03-01-2018, 08:37 PM

i'm happy he's letting is hypocrisy flag shine

LaBelle · 03-01-2018, 08:37 PM

First post nails it

fuzzyroes · 03-01-2018, 08:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wHATcOLOR

it bothers me something fierce because he's been so consistent up until this point. i can't think of one time that he didn't follow through as promised until this thing. really grinds my gears if you know what i'm saying, and i think you do, am i right?

Lmao. Point taken. But THE ONE THING that he seemed so passionate about that he would NEVER waver on was the half-hearted oldies reunion cash grab. It seemed to go against everything that he wanted to stand for. I really thought that that one be the one thing he would stay firm on. It's a little sad.

I figured a reunion was inevitable cause the guy is a very fame driven artist but I really thought he would only do it is if there was also new music being performed. I suppose to his credit that they are working on a new album... It doesn't change the fact that this reunion is a highway robbery cash grab though... I'm sure it'll be accompanied by 50 dollar t-shirts and other overpriced merchandise.

I realize that's becoming the norm for these aging rockers, but it's just a little sad to see these grunge heroes turning their backs on everything they were supposed to stand for.

Forgotten Child · 03-01-2018, 08:47 PM

I have a feeling he's using it only to promote the tour.

I bet he's gonna finish those new 8 songs and play them on the tour. "Hey, turns out we couldn't hold back the magic of this meeting and we're releasing this new EP. I swear, it happened naturally cause we're a genuine reunion".

fuzzyroes · 09:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by reprise85

i'm happy he's letting is hypocrisy flag shine

Yeah... It's funny to think about... just 10 years or 11 years ago I was all excited that the band was back and at that time I really did look at Billy Corgan as this passionate artist with all this integrity... When I saw him live and he was ranting and raving about never selling out I was screaming and applauding and actually believed in the guy. At this point now he's went back on evvvvverrrrrrrytthingggg...

The thing is that I wasn't really as hardcore of a fan until like 2005 so I was unaware about a lot of the stuff that everyone here already knew in their hearts about the guy.

At the same time I was actually really excited to hear about a reunion and a tour. But I suppose that's more of a commentary on just how far the music and touring quality had fallen in just those 10 years alone. Trying to financially plan an outing to a stop on the tour is turning out to be a major headache. No way in a million years did I think Smashing Pumpkins would play to a SEATED floor area with tickets that cost thatttttttttt much. Lol I mean fuck... It's all been a bit of a bummer concerning the excitement of the fanboy still left in me. Typical life of a fan of Billy Corgan I guess.

fuzzyroes · 03-01-2018, 08:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Forgotten Child

I have a feeling he's using it only to promote the tour.

I bet he's gonna finish those new 8 songs and play them on the tour. "Hey, turns out we couldn't hold back the magic of this meeting and we're releasing this new EP. I swear, it happened naturally cause we're a genuine reunion".

Nah man... This seems like a firm agreement with Live Nation.. When Live Nation announces something, it's because it's contractually in place. A band can't really turn back on it at that point.

FoolofaTook · 03-01-2018, 08:56 PM

WeilandFan · 03-01-2018, 08:57 PM

Without the new songs I'd see your point, but they're coming out with eight new songs. It took Soundgarden two years to release even one, Faith No More took five years to put out an album, STP took two years to put out an album, Pavement and Rage Against The Machine never did etc.

Forgotten Child · 03-01-2018, 09:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fuzzyroes

Nah man... This seems like a firm agreement with Live Nation.. When Live Nation announces something, it's because it's contractually in place. A band can't really turn back on it at that point.

I'm not sure, I think Billy's planned everything. I'm not saying he would play only the new songs, but at least 2 of them. Plus, he told Darcy they were recording 1 song to promote the tour.

fuzzyroes · 03-01-2018, 09:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WeilandFan

Without the new songs I'd see your point, but they're coming out with eight new songs. It took Soundgarden two years to release even one, Faith No More took five years to put out an album, STP took two years to put out an album, Pavement and Rage Against The Machine never did etc.

Yeah, but how much is James really gonna be involved is the question? Judging from the D'arcy text messages it's mostly the Billy/Jeff/Jimmy show in the studio. They'll probably go the KISS route and have James on a few songs or whatever for promotional reasons, but it's not really the same working arrangement that a group like Soundgarden or even STP had.

You are right though, it's a little calming to know that they're planning for a path forward, but it seems like in order to get Live Nation on board that they had to sell out... I guess what I'm trying to articulate is that it sucks that they'd bother to go that route. If they just got James back, released some cool new music they'd be able to sell out mid range places and then they could do things their way.

They finally get Jimmy back and that's awesome and James is on board to some degree for a tour and a little recording and then they start charging Paul McCartney level money? It's all a bit of a slap in the face really... Again, it's just the asking price that is really souring things for me and the seating arrangement is a total joke... Grunge movement guys weren't supposed to go down like this! lol

fuzzyroes · 03-01-2018, 09:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Forgotten Child

I'm not sure, I think Billy's planned everything. I'm not saying he would play only the new songs, but at least 2 of them. Plus, he told Darcy they were recording 1 song to promote the tour.

Yeah, I figured a new song would be pumped out to all the stations a month or 2 before the start of the tour, but the press release says strictly songs from the first 5 albums... I suppose it's possible that they make a 1 song exception, but that would be it.

slunken · 03-01-2018, 09:33 PM

before, during, or after the tour

Shallowed · 03-01-2018, 09:37 PM

artvase · 03-01-2018, 09:50 PM

I don't really care personally, I actually think it's a step in the right direction, even if the intention is perhaps misguided. I saw them in ashville, NC for two straight nights in 2007 or 08 when he first tried to reunite the band and did the residencies..Over the course of those two shows, before bolly ever had a real handle on how the fans were receiving old songs vs. new, they pulled everything out. I honestly can't think of a track that I absolutely love that I did not hear on those nights, and both performances ripped - bolly never complained, the band just played and blew the roof off. Everyone, including the band, seemed to just enjoy the energy of that music. And I mean live, at that point, the Zeitgeist stuff killed too. At some point later on bolly lost his shit again.

With that being said, I hope by being back on stage at least with Jimmy and James for the first time in so many years, embracing those old tunes and how fans are moved by them, that it will somehow inspire and alter billy's perspective into writing some great new tunes and taking a different attitude towards how his music affects people, even if the initial thought was a cash grab.

FoolofaTook · 03-01-2018, 10:03 PM

fuzzyroes · 03-01-2018, 10:06 PM

Yeah, I tend to agree. These 2ndrate lineups that he had once Jimmy left weren't cutting it. I too enjoyed the Zeitgeist era and thought they were great on that tour.

I think the biggest evidence of this being a sell-out cash grab is the floor seating arrangement. If it was general admission, they'd have to charge a flat rate... This way they can just pump up the prices and charge more per rows. It's really kind of a lame move from the band. It doesn't seem to be going over well with the fans either. Just reading comments on a random article for the tour show a lot of people puzzled with the decision. Here's a couple from one article:
"
Fuck is with the seats thing anyway? I've never been to a stadium concert, that must be it.

I mean, what's wrong with a giant field with thousands of people, and the most early, persistant, annoying and pushy motherfuckers gets to the front? Isn't that how concerts are supposed to work?
Northernmight 180 · a day ago · permalink · ↑reply "

"
Once I heard there were seats involved I didn't buy tickets in louisville. If it were a real old school rock concert with pits and crowd surfing and no bullshit id pay.
0
cactusman1 30 · 2 days ago · permalink · ↑reply"

FoolofaTook · 03-01-2018, 10:09 PM

Axl Rose

pumped up

ok

FoolofaTook · 03-01-2018, 10:10 PM

top-tier boarding by fullofatoke

houseofglass11 · 03-01-2018, 10:12 PM

It's hypocritical as fuk of him. But at least we won't have to hear any shitty Oceania songs.

fuzzyroes · 03-01-2018, 10:15 PM

Yeah, I mean I was actually excited to hear the Zeitgeist material live at the time, but there hasn't been much since then that would have got me excited in a live setting.

Ram27 · 03-01-2018, 10:21 PM

No way those songs are coming out

Oklahoma Sexual · 03-01-2018, 10:29 PM

i care, therefore i'm not attending this tour. time to move on and let bilbo do his thing

reprise85 · 03-01-2018, 10:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fuzzyroes

Yeah, I tend to agree. These 2ndrate lineups that he had once Jimmy left weren't cutting it. I too enjoyed the Zeitgeist era and thought they were great on that tour.

I think the biggest evidence of this being a sell-out cash grab is the floor seating arrangement. If it was general admission, they'd have to charge a flat rate... This way they can just pump up the prices and charge more per rows. It's really kind of a lame move from the band. It doesn't seem to be going over well with the fans either. Just reading comments on a random article for the tour show a lot of people puzzled with the decision. Here's a couple from one article:
"
Fuck is with the seats thing anyway? I've never been to a stadium concert, that must be it.

I mean, what's wrong with a giant field with thousands of people, and the most early, persistant, annoying and pushy motherfuckers gets to the front? Isn't that how concerts are supposed to work?
Northernmight 180 · a day ago · permalink · ↑reply "

"
Once I heard there were seats involved I didn't buy tickets in louisville. If it were a real old school rock concert with pits and crowd surfing and no bullshit id pay.
0
cactusman1 30 · 2 days ago · permalink · ↑reply"

i was in a GA crowd at the front for the 2008 tour. only once or twice was the crowd moving significantly.

reprise85 · 03-01-2018, 10:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by artvase

I don't really care personally, I actually think it's a step in the right direction, even if the intention is perhaps misguided. I saw them in ashville, NC for two straight nights in 2007 or 08 when he first tried to reunite the band and did the residencies..Over the course of those two shows, before bolly ever had a real handle on how the fans were receiving old songs vs. new, they pulled everything out. I honestly can't think of a track that I absolutely love that I did not hear on those nights, and both performances ripped - bolly never complained, the band just played and blew the roof off. Everyone, including the band, seemed to just enjoy the energy of that music. And I mean live, at that point, the Zeitgeist stuff killed too. At some point later on bolly lost his shit again.

With that being said, I hope by being back on stage at least with Jimmy and James for the first time in so many years, embracing those old tunes and how fans are moved by them, that it will somehow inspire and alter billy's perspective into writing some great new tunes and taking a different attitude towards how his music affects people, even if the initial thought was a cash grab.

yep, saw them one night (6/27) and they flat-out killed it. the audience was great, setlist was great, energy was great. show lasted forever. honestly felt like the crowd was one big euphoric energy-being, and i wasn't even high. best show i've ever seen

slayed23 · 03-01-2018, 10:52 PM

I can't knock him because what he is doing is working. The floor seats are selling. Yes, it sucks for low to middle class fans who can't afford to pay it. The people that would get to a venue 5 hours early if they had to and show their 50 dollar ticket and then get 15 feet from stage. It sucks for them.

He tried doing it the Oceania way and it didn't work. 10,000 people a city didn't want to hear new music (even though it was pretty good) from a band that had better hits 15 years earlier.

I am actually surprised they didn't do this sooner to be honest. Most bands in their shoes probably would have done so.

fuzzyroes · 03-01-2018, 11:00 PM

Well it does seem to be the exact kind of venture that the movement they were a part of rebelled against. I guess it's a happy accident that there really isn't many popular young rock bands around anymore.

Regarding the Oceania tour, I think the bad turnouts are a perfect reflection to the quality of the album... It's simply just an "alright" release... Not something that people would wanna go out of there way to go see live.

fuzzyroes · 03-01-2018, 11:06 PM

Over the hill rocker rushing together a semi reunion in order to go out and gouge fans with astronomical ticket prices by playing a bunch of old songs to help cover some band investments.

slayed23 · 03-01-2018, 11:14 PM

I thought Oceania had several above average songs. Quasar, Celestials, Violet Rays, MLIW, Pinwheels and the title track... all of those I played for a long time after the release. I can't say the same for basically any Pumpkins album after 2000. I mean to each his or her own though I guess.

But you go to the concerts and you talk to people that are so warped with the hits, they can't sit through that for an hour before they hear a song they recognize. It's like trying to get a toddler to watch Shawshank Redemption.

03-01-2018, 08:32 PM	#1
fuzzyroes Banned Posts: 21,169	Does anyone care that Billy went back on his word and went the oldies route? As we know, he'd always rant and rave and criticize other bands for the sell out oldies jaunts. I guess most of us realize that Billy is full of shit at this point, but this is pretty much his most blatant hypocrisy and sellout move yet. I have to imagine that there is still some fans left who looked to him as an alt-rock moral compass. Are any of you guys a little turned off? The "strictly oldies" angle kind of annoys me a bit... I mean it's pretty much the biggest sell out thing you can do. Bands like Pixies and Pavement got away with it because they didn't make much in their prime and fans felt they deserved a payday... And even then those bands played clubs and theaters for very reasonable prices. They were great intimate experiences. It just goes back on all his blabbering. Hell, even Axl Rose wouldn't do a reunion tour unless the music he made in the 2000's was represented and performed at the shows... Hell, it was a part of the bands output, why turn your back on it. Another thing I didn't see coming was the outrageous ticket prices... This is the exact kind of thing that the grunge scene snubbed their noses at... The big bloated rock production. When Soundgarden did their arena tour they made sure that the ticket prices would be affordable. I mean man... Those SP rates are back breakers. I guess nosebleeds are somewhat affordable at like 80 dollars when you factor in fees, but that's just no way to attend a concert. It seems like Billy Corgan has no shame with this. I expected him to try and maintain a little integrity with the tour, at least to save face... I figured they'd at least have new music performed at these shows. Last edited by fuzzyroes : 03-01-2018 at 08:38 PM.

03-01-2018, 08:35 PM	#2
wHATcOLOR THIS IS AWESOME!!!!!!!!!! Location: \|\| MY NAME IS KIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIID ROCK!! Posts: 47,247	it bothers me something fierce because he's been so consistent up until this point. i can't think of one time that he didn't follow through as promised until this thing. really grinds my gears if you know what i'm saying, and i think you do, am i right?

03-01-2018, 08:37 PM	#3
reprise85 BOTTLEG ILLEGAL Location: I'm faced with so many changes that I just might change my face Posts: 32,800	i'm happy he's letting is hypocrisy flag shine

03-01-2018, 08:37 PM	#4
LaBelle Socialphobic Location: Away Posts: 11,398	First post nails it

03-01-2018, 08:47 PM	#6
Forgotten Child Apocalyptic Poster Location: SP, Sao Paulo - Brazil Posts: 4,876	I have a feeling he's using it only to promote the tour. I bet he's gonna finish those new 8 songs and play them on the tour. "Hey, turns out we couldn't hold back the magic of this meeting and we're releasing this new EP. I swear, it happened naturally cause we're a genuine reunion".

03-01-2018, 08:56 PM	#9
FoolofaTook Just Hook it to My Veins! Location: Donald Trump of Netphoria Posts: 37,218	no

03-01-2018, 08:57 PM	#10
WeilandFan Apocalyptic Poster Posts: 1,270	Without the new songs I'd see your point, but they're coming out with eight new songs. It took Soundgarden two years to release even one, Faith No More took five years to put out an album, STP took two years to put out an album, Pavement and Rage Against The Machine never did etc.

03-01-2018, 09:33 PM	#14
slunken Virgo Posts: 42,781	before, during, or after the tour

03-01-2018, 09:37 PM	#15
Shallowed Braindead Posts: 18,608	ok

03-01-2018, 09:50 PM	#16
artvase Pledge Location: los angelus Posts: 135	I don't really care personally, I actually think it's a step in the right direction, even if the intention is perhaps misguided. I saw them in ashville, NC for two straight nights in 2007 or 08 when he first tried to reunite the band and did the residencies..Over the course of those two shows, before bolly ever had a real handle on how the fans were receiving old songs vs. new, they pulled everything out. I honestly can't think of a track that I absolutely love that I did not hear on those nights, and both performances ripped - bolly never complained, the band just played and blew the roof off. Everyone, including the band, seemed to just enjoy the energy of that music. And I mean live, at that point, the Zeitgeist stuff killed too. At some point later on bolly lost his shit again. With that being said, I hope by being back on stage at least with Jimmy and James for the first time in so many years, embracing those old tunes and how fans are moved by them, that it will somehow inspire and alter billy's perspective into writing some great new tunes and taking a different attitude towards how his music affects people, even if the initial thought was a cash grab.

03-01-2018, 10:03 PM	#17
FoolofaTook Just Hook it to My Veins! Location: Donald Trump of Netphoria Posts: 37,218	ok

03-01-2018, 10:06 PM	#18
fuzzyroes Banned Posts: 21,169	Yeah, I tend to agree. These 2ndrate lineups that he had once Jimmy left weren't cutting it. I too enjoyed the Zeitgeist era and thought they were great on that tour. I think the biggest evidence of this being a sell-out cash grab is the floor seating arrangement. If it was general admission, they'd have to charge a flat rate... This way they can just pump up the prices and charge more per rows. It's really kind of a lame move from the band. It doesn't seem to be going over well with the fans either. Just reading comments on a random article for the tour show a lot of people puzzled with the decision. Here's a couple from one article: " Fuck is with the seats thing anyway? I've never been to a stadium concert, that must be it. I mean, what's wrong with a giant field with thousands of people, and the most early, persistant, annoying and pushy motherfuckers gets to the front? Isn't that how concerts are supposed to work? Northernmight 180 · a day ago · permalink · ↑reply " " Once I heard there were seats involved I didn't buy tickets in louisville. If it were a real old school rock concert with pits and crowd surfing and no bullshit id pay. 0 cactusman1 30 · 2 days ago · permalink · ↑reply"

03-01-2018, 10:09 PM	#19
FoolofaTook Just Hook it to My Veins! Location: Donald Trump of Netphoria Posts: 37,218	Axl Rose pumped up ok

03-01-2018, 10:10 PM	#20
FoolofaTook Just Hook it to My Veins! Location: Donald Trump of Netphoria Posts: 37,218	top-tier boarding by fullofatoke

03-01-2018, 10:12 PM	#21
houseofglass11 Minion of Satan Location: sleuthing around like a worm Posts: 5,690	It's hypocritical as fuk of him. But at least we won't have to hear any shitty Oceania songs.

03-01-2018, 10:15 PM	#22
fuzzyroes Banned Posts: 21,169	Yeah, I mean I was actually excited to hear the Zeitgeist material live at the time, but there hasn't been much since then that would have got me excited in a live setting.

03-01-2018, 10:21 PM	#23
Ram27 dumb Location: $8.6 million embezzled funds Posts: 11,368	No way those songs are coming out

03-01-2018, 10:29 PM	#24
Oklahoma Sexual Apocalyptic Poster Posts: 1,612	i care, therefore i'm not attending this tour. time to move on and let bilbo do his thing

03-01-2018, 10:52 PM	#27
slayed23 Ownz Posts: 592	I can't knock him because what he is doing is working. The floor seats are selling. Yes, it sucks for low to middle class fans who can't afford to pay it. The people that would get to a venue 5 hours early if they had to and show their 50 dollar ticket and then get 15 feet from stage. It sucks for them. He tried doing it the Oceania way and it didn't work. 10,000 people a city didn't want to hear new music (even though it was pretty good) from a band that had better hits 15 years earlier. I am actually surprised they didn't do this sooner to be honest. Most bands in their shoes probably would have done so.

03-01-2018, 11:00 PM	#28
fuzzyroes Banned Posts: 21,169	Well it does seem to be the exact kind of venture that the movement they were a part of rebelled against. I guess it's a happy accident that there really isn't many popular young rock bands around anymore. Regarding the Oceania tour, I think the bad turnouts are a perfect reflection to the quality of the album... It's simply just an "alright" release... Not something that people would wanna go out of there way to go see live.

03-01-2018, 11:06 PM	#29
fuzzyroes Banned Posts: 21,169	Over the hill rocker rushing together a semi reunion in order to go out and gouge fans with astronomical ticket prices by playing a bunch of old songs to help cover some band investments.

03-01-2018, 11:14 PM	#30
slayed23 Ownz Posts: 592	I thought Oceania had several above average songs. Quasar, Celestials, Violet Rays, MLIW, Pinwheels and the title track... all of those I played for a long time after the release. I can't say the same for basically any Pumpkins album after 2000. I mean to each his or her own though I guess. But you go to the concerts and you talk to people that are so warped with the hits, they can't sit through that for an hour before they hear a song they recognize. It's like trying to get a toddler to watch Shawshank Redemption.