Let's talk about the Pre-Gish era please.

[BurtSampson]

it is just so surreal to watch/listen to this shit and realize that in 8 years, they would be selling out Madison Square Garden. It also makes me wanna buy the new Pisces reissue but god knows how they fucked that up

[pavementtune]

Not so surreal for me - have you ever listened to "climbing up a bloody great hill" by "On a Friday"?

[BurtSampson]

Originally Posted by pavementtune

Not so surreal for me - have you ever listened to "climbing up a bloody great hill" by "On a Friday"?

no but Pablo Honey was bad enough LOL

[aztec litany service]

pablo honey is fucking great
and i love bill's early songs, even the kind of lame ones

[houseofglass11]

There was definitely a big jump in the quality of Bill's songwriting from 1986 to 1988. The stuff with the Marked was pretty awful and so was his singing in that band. Somehow he got his shit together quick in that period of time.

[redbull]

pablo honey is pretty not good

[CrabbMan]

There was enough good material before Gish to have put together a listenable album. I like to think of the WZRD show as their pre-gish album. But James' singing is terrible. His pitch is just off.

[Shallowed]

I'm fond of the pre-Gish era. I love how awkward amd inexperienced the band is on the Pulse show, yet Billy's talent for songwriting and guitar playing is really apparent. I watched the Pisces DVD with my friend who knows very little about SP and he was impressed.

[stumpycat]

Originally Posted by houseofglass11

There was definitely a big jump in the quality of Bill's songwriting from 1986 to 1988. The stuff with the Marked was pretty awful and so was his singing in that band. Somehow he got his shit together quick in that period of time.

My thoughts exactly. You can actually hear the quality of the music in the Marked go up between 1985 and 1986 even (Mastery + Conjecture is pretty epic, relatively speaking), but yeah his voice transforms into something that's remarkably listenable as early as 1987.

[aztec litany service]

Originally Posted by houseofglass11

There was definitely a big jump in the quality of Bill's songwriting from 1986 to 1988. The stuff with the Marked was pretty awful and so was his singing in that band. Somehow he got his shit together quick in that period of time.

maybe. i dunno, i just love the stupid genius of stuff like 'murder mix' or 'a day at the circus'. he wasn't trying to write u2 anthems, he was just a weird silly guy.

Originally Posted by Shallowed

I'm fond of the pre-Gish era. I love how awkward amd inexperienced the band is on the Pulse show, yet Billy's talent for songwriting and guitar playing is really apparent. I watched the Pisces DVD with my friend who knows very little about SP and he was impressed.

i've gotta get a hold of this somehow.
oh great, demonoid is gone. fuck me w/ a secret stick

[Toby]

is this my chemical romance???

[Grox]

Originally Posted by aztec litany service

fuck me w/ a secret stick

haha

[aztec litany service]

Originally Posted by Toby

is this my chemical romance???

totally. i much prefer their 1988 demos.

Originally Posted by Grox

haha

thank you

can't find a :bow: smilie. so i'm goin w/ bono

[BasedGod]

IM A CREEEEEP

[Candy Cane]

I think 'There it goes' is the best pre-Gish song. Some of my fav SP songs are pre-Gish.

[IAMTHEDOORWAY]

"She" wins the pre-Gish award.

[reprise85]

nothing and everything

[RenewRevive]

Psychodelic. but i like a lot of the material at the same level. and yeah, it would have been awesome to have released a début album in like '89. still would like to see them do this, retrospectively, but with the scatter-gun approach to throwing some of these songs on the first 3 reissue discs, plus billy's downer attitude to this era, i just don't see it happening. which is a shame, really.

[stumpycat]

I don't understand why he often seems to act embarrassed towards not only this era but especially himself in this era. Remember when he called himself a "poofter" or something analogous when looking at band picture from the time?

[RenewRevive]

well, he kinda did look like something like that, to be fair

actually, his attitude extends to Gish too these days; apparently, he couldn't write good songs until Siamese

though since he apparently still thinks HMM and Zeit are "good" i'm not sure he's the best person to judge his own material.

[IAMTHEDOORWAY]

Psychodelic fucking sucks, bro

[Ihaguitar]

Originally Posted by IAMTHEDOORWAY

Psychodelic fucking sucks, bro

Psychodelic fucking?

[IAMTHEDOORWAY]

Get feral, ihaguitar

[stumpycat]

Originally Posted by RenewRevive

well, he kinda did look like something like that, to be fair

C'mon, man...this was from a guy who was wearing summer fashion scarves with mime shirts and capri pants at the time! How ridiculous.

actually, his attitude extends to Gish too these days; apparently, he couldn't write good songs until Siamese

though since he apparently still thinks HMM and Zeit are "good" i'm not sure he's the best person to judge his own material.

Billy apparently doesn't like his own music until it starts to bear semblance to something constructed with epic reach in mind. Even when at some point "epic" began to mean over-worked, over-thought, somewhat aesthetically tacky, and lacking true depth of feeling. The songs up through the Gish era have a more straight forward approach and musical agenda but what an eclectic collection of songs they are.

[RenewRevive]

Originally Posted by stumpycat

C'mon, man...this was from a guy who was wearing summer fashion scarves with mime shirts and capri pants at the time! How ridiculous.

fair point. i'd expunged those images from my mind

Billy apparently doesn't like his own music until it starts to bear semblance to something constructed with epic reach in mind. Even when at some point "epic" began to mean over-worked, over-thought, somewhat aesthetically tacky, and lacking true depth of feeling. The songs up through the Gish era have a more straight forward approach and musical agenda but what an eclectic collection of songs they are.

yeah, and i think most musicians tend to overrate their new material and in many cases denigrate their oldest. whether this is due to the investment in time and effort, or because it is simply fresh, or due to them genuinely seeing something that they value in it, who knows? plus billy probably lost his marbles with the sales and attention he got with SD, which was a first for him. so naturally he overlooks the relatively simple Gish (and pre-Gish). you can see a little bit of this attitude with the positive reviews for Oceania. he comes off as a giddy schoolgirl (no offence to giddy schoolgirls that might be reading).