Netphoria Message Board


Go Back   Netphoria Message Board > Archives > Pumpkins Archive
Register Netphoria's Amazon.com Link Members List Mark Forums Read

 
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 08-16-2008, 01:09 PM   #31
ChaosEffect
Apocalyptic Poster
 
ChaosEffect's Avatar
 
Location: Rockin out over Endor Space
Posts: 1,376
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Springbridge View Post
That's very mature of you. Welcome to my thread, and thank you for adding your intellectual response.

 
ChaosEffect is offline
Old 08-16-2008, 01:12 PM   #32
tcm
Braindead
 
tcm's Avatar
 
Location: Le look de Corgan
Posts: 17,922
Arrow

Quote:
Originally Posted by MonteLDS View Post
i like the smashing pumpkins, but i don't want to lecture people who don't.
but billy says we don't defend them enough. come on, man... stand up for yourself and for your band!

 
tcm is offline
Old 08-16-2008, 01:19 PM   #33
mistle
bonnie stars
 
mistle's Avatar
 
Location: saxophone
Posts: 12,077
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by tcm View Post
when did he say it was supposed to be nothing extraordinary?
i can't remember which interview it was. anyone? someone must recognize the 'hello' thing. 'nothing extraordinary' is very much paraphrasing and it might be exaggerated in my mind, but i remember him saying something along the lines of zeitgeist not being meant to be a great artistic statement, but just a solid rock album and me thinking 'well no wonder it's boring'

Quote:
Originally Posted by tcm View Post
Billy: The consistent line through those five records was risk taking. That is fact. And we always managed to insert a kind of random chaos in every release that, like a form of gambling, helps you to win big or lose big. We could live, and did live for, that chance taking. And I think that is the point of emphasis: the risk taking. Not the outcomes. The outcomes affect the willingness to take risk, and that's how we find out sometimes who we are, by who we are not. What makes us unusual is we've been willing to share that risk publically.

Jimmy: We had to make a choice as to what was more important to us: Art or someone else's version of success. We consistently chose our music and we found a home there. We learned a long time ago that by being consistent with our own vision that we could stay ahead of the game and vital, if only to ourselves.

Billy: I think our work now is quite strong, as solid as it's been since the mid-90's. At the end of the day, I have to trust our judgment on the level of our work above all others, because it has gotten us this far. "Far" meaning alive, motivated, and still out there.
well great. i'm not saying billy doesn't think zeitgeist is good. and i can't tell you that he doesn't believe that forming sp2 and making zeitgeist corresponds with those ideals. but i can tell you that i don't. and i gotta say that, considering the impression i have of him as someone who's very much concerned with commercial success and mainstream popularity and his obvious bitterness since the 'failure' of adore towards the fans, the music industry and the human race in general about his ever lesser achievements in that respect, sp2 looks like resignation and zeitgeist sounds like compromise

 
mistle is offline
Old 08-16-2008, 01:19 PM   #34
MonteLDS
*sigh*
 
MonteLDS's Avatar
 
Posts: 8,845
Default

i will defend SP against people who give wrong or bad information about them. Mainly the press. but the battle field here is lost.

some old fans just don't get SP2. Just like fans who didn't get Adore

 
MonteLDS is offline
Old 08-16-2008, 01:21 PM   #35
zerock
Ownz
 
zerock's Avatar
 
Location: Puerto Rico
Posts: 710
Default

Springbridge, i want to be your friend.

 
zerock is offline
Old 08-16-2008, 01:22 PM   #36
zerock
Ownz
 
zerock's Avatar
 
Location: Puerto Rico
Posts: 710
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by MonteLDS View Post
i will defend SP against people who give wrong or bad information about them. Mainly the press. but the battle field here is lost.

some old fans just don't get SP2. Just like fans who didn't get Adore
Adore 2 would rock

 
zerock is offline
Old 08-16-2008, 01:28 PM   #37
frugalscotsman
Demi-God
 
frugalscotsman's Avatar
 
Location: i admit i wasnt alive in the 80s but that doesnt mean i havent done research on what kinds of music there was back then
Posts: 316
Default

the line of tr00 fans starts here
http://sleevage.com/wp-content/uploa...t_inside_2.jpg

 
frugalscotsman is offline
Old 08-16-2008, 01:40 PM   #38
skipgo
Minion of Satan
 
skipgo's Avatar
 
Location: i'm a horrible human being
Posts: 9,141
Default

the debate rages on...

 
skipgo is offline
Old 08-16-2008, 01:42 PM   #39
frugalscotsman
Demi-God
 
frugalscotsman's Avatar
 
Location: i admit i wasnt alive in the 80s but that doesnt mean i havent done research on what kinds of music there was back then
Posts: 316
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by skipgo View Post
the debate rages on...
for what reason i'll never know

 
frugalscotsman is offline
Old 08-16-2008, 02:00 PM   #40
SlingeroGuitaro
Starbucks addicted minion
 
SlingeroGuitaro's Avatar
 
Location: Billy Corgan Kazoo Revue
Posts: 6,629
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by skipgo View Post
the debate rages on...
just like hemorrhoids

 
SlingeroGuitaro is offline
Old 08-16-2008, 02:01 PM   #41
skipgo
Minion of Satan
 
skipgo's Avatar
 
Location: i'm a horrible human being
Posts: 9,141
Default

fantastic analogy. this thread needs some preparation h, pronto.

 
skipgo is offline
Old 08-16-2008, 02:35 PM   #42
avsfan7733
Apocalyptic Poster
 
avsfan7733's Avatar
 
Location: neither here nor there
Posts: 1,217
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Springbridge View Post
Today I want to address something to all of those people who are so upset about SP2. They are OH so in passionately upset, because "How Dare Billy Corgan change the aesthetics of the music that I once loved so much". How DARE he make His decisions with His own property so it doesn't appeal to You and your very narrow-minded view on how the music is supposed to sound with a specific tone and feel.

What really bothers me the most is just because you're a really strong fan of something, you feel that somehow those people who own it, are making it, and are putting the effort in it, sat around in a room and made all the decisions, are somehow beholden to YOU and maybe the group of 200 or 300 other people who think like you. That is preposterous, arrogant, narcissistic, and downright stupid.

I'm sick of hearing claims that SP2 is doing something that you feel violates the very core of the music that you originally liked, because guess what? You know what made Smashing Pumpkins really cool in the first place? The sincerity, the energy, and the creativity in the music. I don't see that one changing up as much as the sound of the music itself.

You disgruntled SP2 complainers make silly statements, and really all that energy should be put somewhere else. What I do find really distressing is that fact that people are so afraid of Change. Since when did Pumpkins fans become these proto-fascists who need to always evolve back to the "Golden Era; when everything was so God damn perfect, it sounded so perfectly, and it was all simple and that's how life was suppose to be"...

You think that things in SP2 are going in a bad direction, well these things are happening in society today and that's where you should be putting your complaints, because it might actually effect a change that will do something for generations to come.

It's The Smashing Pumpkins everybody.

It's probably going to be Awesome, and if it's not...Go Listen to Something Else.
welcome to may of 2007.

 
avsfan7733 is offline
Old 08-16-2008, 06:07 PM   #43
Shapan
Socialphobic
 
Shapan's Avatar
 
Location: intellectual hobo
Posts: 11,794
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by MonteLDS View Post
some old fans just don't get SP2. Just like fans who didn't get Adore
this is a really stupid way to put it

Quote:
Originally Posted by Luke de Spa View Post
bill can do whatever he wants with his songs and his band, but that doesn't mean i have to like it
this is better

 
Shapan is offline
Old 08-16-2008, 06:29 PM   #44
slowdawn
Pledge
 
slowdawn's Avatar
 
Location: Illinois
Posts: 241
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by mistle View Post
i can't remember which interview it was. anyone? someone must recognize the 'hello' thing. 'nothing extraordinary' is very much paraphrasing and it might be exaggerated in my mind, but i remember him saying something along the lines of zeitgeist not being meant to be a great artistic statement, but just a solid rock album and me thinking 'well no wonder it's boring'
He did describe it as a 'hello' in the Inside the Zeitgeist DVD (in the beginning).

Billy:
"We weren't trying to make some grand declaration...we weren't trying to repeat the high points of our past, it was more like a hello"

 
slowdawn is offline
Old 08-16-2008, 08:00 PM   #45
vitaldust
Apocalyptic Poster
 
vitaldust's Avatar
 
Location: a melting apocalyptic jungle bleeding out of me like a dream
Posts: 1,172
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Springbridge View Post
Today I want to address something to all of those people who are so upset about SP2. They are OH so in passionately upset, because "How Dare Billy Corgan change the aesthetics of the music that I once loved so much". How DARE he make His decisions with His own property so it doesn't appeal to You and your very narrow-minded view on how the music is supposed to sound with a specific tone and feel.

What really bothers me the most is just because you're a really strong fan of something, you feel that somehow those people who own it, are making it, and are putting the effort in it, sat around in a room and made all the decisions, are somehow beholden to YOU and maybe the group of 200 or 300 other people who think like you. That is preposterous, arrogant, narcissistic, and downright stupid.

I'm sick of hearing claims that SP2 is doing something that you feel violates the very core of the music that you originally liked, because guess what? You know what made Smashing Pumpkins really cool in the first place? The sincerity, the energy, and the creativity in the music. I don't see that one changing up as much as the sound of the music itself.

You disgruntled SP2 complainers make silly statements, and really all that energy should be put somewhere else. What I do find really distressing is that fact that people are so afraid of Change. Since when did Pumpkins fans become these proto-fascists who need to always evolve back to the "Golden Era; when everything was so God damn perfect, it sounded so perfectly, and it was all simple and that's how life was suppose to be"...

You think that things in SP2 are going in a bad direction, well these things are happening in society today and that's where you should be putting your complaints, because it might actually effect a change that will do something for generations to come.

It's The Smashing Pumpkins everybody.

It's probably going to be Awesome, and if it's not...Go Listen to Something Else.
stop ranting

calm down

you should be able to see why people are so frustrated and respect that.

 
vitaldust is offline
Old 08-16-2008, 08:00 PM   #46
MisterSquishyHalo
Apocalyptic Poster
 
MisterSquishyHalo's Avatar
 
Location: seattle, wa, usa
Posts: 3,964
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by MonteLDS View Post

some old fans just don't get SP2. Just like fans who didn't get Adore

And people's musical tastes just change.

 
MisterSquishyHalo is offline
Old 08-16-2008, 08:00 PM   #47
mistle
bonnie stars
 
mistle's Avatar
 
Location: saxophone
Posts: 12,077
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by slowdawn View Post
He did describe it as a 'hello' in the Inside the Zeitgeist DVD (in the beginning).

Billy:
"We weren't trying to make some grand declaration...we weren't trying to repeat the high points of our past, it was more like a hello"
thanks. i thought i'd probably twisted that a bit

 
mistle is offline
Old 08-16-2008, 08:10 PM   #48
Shallowed
Braindead
 
Posts: 18,608
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by MonteLDS View Post
some old fans just don't get SP2. Just like fans who didn't get Adore
http://forums.netphoria.org/showthread.php?t=161555

 
Shallowed is offline
Old 08-16-2008, 10:06 PM   #49
catluck
Pledge
 
Posts: 53
Default

http://img244.imageshack.us/img244/2200/suppgp5.jpg

 
catluck is offline
Old 08-16-2008, 10:29 PM   #50
Reggaeluv2000
Banned
 
Location: mickeymouse clubhouse, Russia
Posts: 342
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by catluck View Post
lol..that's good

 
Reggaeluv2000 is offline
Old 08-16-2008, 10:40 PM   #51
smashingjj
real estate cowboy
 
smashingjj's Avatar
 
Location: if Monsanto and Purdue Pharma had a baby
Posts: 36,881
Default

converge

 
smashingjj is offline
Old 08-16-2008, 11:07 PM   #52
MonteLDS
*sigh*
 
MonteLDS's Avatar
 
Posts: 8,845
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by catluck View Post
i assume where ever you are it must be opposite day.

 
MonteLDS is offline
Old 08-16-2008, 11:15 PM   #53
SlingeroGuitaro
Starbucks addicted minion
 
SlingeroGuitaro's Avatar
 
Location: Billy Corgan Kazoo Revue
Posts: 6,629
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by MonteLDS View Post
i assume where ever you are it must be opposite day.

::cough::

 
SlingeroGuitaro is offline
Old 08-16-2008, 11:41 PM   #54
Hate the Hater
Apocalyptic Poster
 
Hate the Hater's Avatar
 
Posts: 2,499
Default

haha

 
Hate the Hater is offline
Old 08-17-2008, 12:48 AM   #55
exactlythesame
Minion of Satan
 
exactlythesame's Avatar
 
Location: I thought what I'd do is I'd pretend I was one of those deaf-mutes
Posts: 7,676
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Springbridge View Post
Today I want to address something to all of those people who are so upset about SP2. They are OH so in passionately upset, because "How Dare Billy Corgan change the aesthetics of the music that I once loved so much". How DARE he make His decisions with His own property so it doesn't appeal to You and your very narrow-minded view on how the music is supposed to sound with a specific tone and feel.

What really bothers me the most is just because you're a really strong fan of something, you feel that somehow those people who own it, are making it, and are putting the effort in it, sat around in a room and made all the decisions, are somehow beholden to YOU and maybe the group of 200 or 300 other people who think like you. That is preposterous, arrogant, narcissistic, and downright stupid.

I'm sick of hearing claims that SP2 is doing something that you feel violates the very core of the music that you originally liked, because guess what? You know what made Smashing Pumpkins really cool in the first place? The sincerity, the energy, and the creativity in the music. I don't see that one changing up as much as the sound of the music itself.

You disgruntled SP2 complainers make silly statements, and really all that energy should be put somewhere else. What I do find really distressing is that fact that people are so afraid of Change. Since when did Pumpkins fans become these proto-fascists who need to always evolve back to the "Golden Era; when everything was so God damn perfect, it sounded so perfectly, and it was all simple and that's how life was suppose to be"...

You think that things in SP2 are going in a bad direction, well these things are happening in society today and that's where you should be putting your complaints, because it might actually effect a change that will do something for generations to come.

It's The Smashing Pumpkins everybody.

It's probably going to be Awesome, and if it's not...Go Listen to Something Else.
lol wut

 
exactlythesame is offline
Old 08-17-2008, 02:23 AM   #56
trev
charm
 
trev's Avatar
 
Location: Naarm, Wurundjeri, Woiwurrung, Kulin Nations
Posts: 2,221
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by catluck View Post
that's awesome. and so true.

but yeah mistle has said pretty much everything that needed to be said. well done.

seriously if you can't tell the difference between the original 4 and anything else that's pretended to be the smashing pumpkins since then you can't be much of a fan.

i'm not saying it's all been shit, but there is a difference that is un-questionable, it's there. and most people agree it was better with the original 4.

basically it comes down to people arguing about how much worse SP2 is to the original 4. whiny bitches like springbridge and monte think it's almost as good / right up there, so close.

and others think it's pretty mediocre at best.

 
trev is offline
Old 08-17-2008, 02:29 AM   #57
SpFission
Apocalyptic Poster
 
SpFission's Avatar
 
Posts: 2,999
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by trev View Post
that's awesome. and so true.



seriously if you can't tell the difference between the original 4 and anything else that's pretended to be the smashing pumpkins since then you can't be much of a fan.

i'm not saying it's all been shit, but there is a difference that is un-questionable, it's there. and most people agree it was better with the original 4.

the 'original' 4 argument is crap...because that original 4 also created Machina..which is worse than most of the newer material.

 
SpFission is offline
Old 08-17-2008, 02:30 AM   #58
trev
charm
 
trev's Avatar
 
Location: Naarm, Wurundjeri, Woiwurrung, Kulin Nations
Posts: 2,221
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by SpFission View Post
the 'original' 4 argument is crap...because that original 4 also created Machina..which is worse than most of the newer material.
bullshit - the original 4 created the arising material, which fucking ruled. the original 4 didn't do machina.

 
trev is offline
Old 08-17-2008, 02:35 AM   #59
Quiet CD
Apocalyptic Poster
 
Quiet CD's Avatar
 
Location: wherever you aren't
Posts: 3,239
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by SpFission View Post
the 'original' 4 argument is crap...because that original 4 also created Machina..which is worse than most of the newer material.
When do you come back from your vacation to Oppositeland?

 
Quiet CD is offline
Old 08-17-2008, 04:20 AM   #60
foxtrot2000
Demi-God
 
foxtrot2000's Avatar
 
Posts: 326
Default

Billy has always been really genuinely good to people. From the Adore charity tour, to the free release of Machina II, shaking the hands of the fans who have been sitting in line for hours before the shows, the free signing tour for machina, offering his fans free tickets, putting extra effort into making each show unique- on one occassion I recall Billy getting people on stage at the end of the show to hold their instruments. What I don't understand is the social phenomenon (particularly at Netphoria) of shitting in their own nest and on the Pumpkins desipte their good deeds.

I endorse the idea of being critical and using judgment even if it is unfavorable; such is the nature of an active fuctioning brain. But at some point all human beings are entitled to some respect.

 
foxtrot2000 is offline
 


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is On
Google


Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 07:01 AM.




Smashing Pumpkins, Alternative Music
& General Discussion Message Board and Forums
www.netphoria.org - Copyright © 1998-2022