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11-06-2017, 07:28 PM | #31 |
dumb
Location: $8.6 million embezzled funds
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11-06-2017, 07:30 PM | #32 |
Minion of Satan
Posts: 6,014
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11-06-2017, 07:31 PM | #33 |
full of longing
Posts: 11,538
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just please don't quote the chrysanthemum lyric again
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11-06-2017, 07:31 PM | #34 |
full of longing
Posts: 11,538
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and if you must, at least don't italicize it or follow it with an ellipsis
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11-06-2017, 07:35 PM | #35 |
Minion of Satan
Posts: 6,014
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11-06-2017, 07:42 PM | #36 |
Minion of Satan
Posts: 6,014
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11-06-2017, 09:00 PM | #37 |
Socialphobic
Location: Your god damn living room
Posts: 10,000
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.
Last edited by Mals Marola : 11-06-2017 at 09:03 PM. Reason: del |
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11-06-2017, 09:11 PM | #38 |
Apocalyptic Poster
Posts: 1,695
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a flower's still a flower crushed to dust inside my hand
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11-06-2017, 10:19 PM | #39 |
Apocalyptic Poster
Posts: 3,425
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That YT comment was right about Paz. The band was amazing as a 4 piece. I'm 99% certain they'd have been successful if Billy held off on being a fame whore for at least one album.
His comments about Pajo and Sweeney being worried about their indie cred piss me off so much. Did he ever consider that maybe they were right? "I sold 20 million records" Yeah, not by yourself you didn't. Last edited by Funbags : 11-06-2017 at 10:30 PM. |
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11-07-2017, 02:35 AM | #40 |
Apocalyptic Poster
Location: A very stable individual
Posts: 1,689
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I thought the Zwan album was the beginning of the Billy trying too hard to sound way too happy on record that has since taken over his songwriting. Sadly it seems there was much better unreleased material because the album was just too much on the cheery side. No one is that happy all the time. Give me the range you had. I don't mind doses of it like he has done on the great Pumpkins records. But people feel more than one feeling. Ogilala isn't any better. I tried to listen to it and couldn't make it through the first few tracks without skimming through and deleting it from my HD. Billy isn't strong on his own with just a piano or guitar for an entire record. Again, small doses works much better. Where is the rocker Billy? Give us some real guitar licks and riffs. Not this la-di-da crap. The only positive thing with Ogilala is he's not just saying lover over and over and actually wrote some real lyrics unlike the nonsense on Elegy. Ogilala could sound better with a real band behind it and good production.
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11-07-2017, 10:19 AM | #41 |
Apocalyptic Poster
Posts: 2,626
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That fucking guy shouting "JAMES IHA" when David Pajo walks out on stage.
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11-07-2017, 10:25 AM | #42 |
dumb
Location: $8.6 million embezzled funds
Posts: 11,367
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imagine a world where zwan's first album was called 'chrysanthemum' and it didn't suck and everything was bright
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11-07-2017, 03:21 PM | #43 |
Apocalyptic Poster
Posts: 3,881
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Zwan's first album should've been self-titled and released early '02. The cover should've just been logo in gold on a black background. The tracklisting should've been the Glasshouse show setlist. They would've been a credible indie, alt band like QOTSA, Audioslave, White Stripes etc
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_OxdhMnkj0A...s1600/zwan.gif Instead Billy made this saccharine cheese fest that he somehow thought a mainstream pop audience would buy. |
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11-07-2017, 04:35 PM | #44 | |
Apocalyptic Poster
Location: up on the cross you go little fella
Posts: 2,676
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Quote:
Sweeney looks like he's just been caught jerking it on camera Billy looks like a rapist Paz winding down the end of a hardore porn scene for the money shot Jimmy rocking the Blue Steel look Pajo plainly about to eat the hearts of orphans |
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11-07-2017, 05:01 PM | #45 |
Ownz
Posts: 555
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11-07-2017, 05:22 PM | #46 |
Pledge
Posts: 137
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Loved Zwan, pity about some of the song choices on the album but still some great tracks and a really good departure from what he routinely trotted out up to that point.
I also kind of admired the The Future Embrace for how it tried to push boundaries even if it didn't really get to me on an emotional level. All Things Change, Camera Eye, Walking Shade, Mina Loy...decent tracks though in their own detached way. Zeitgeist was the first full on disappointment for me. The depth to his songwriting just wasn't there. It was a straight up rawk album with horrible vocals. I never listen to it. That been said i caught them in Dublin in 07 and it was one of the best gigs ive ever been to. Lost a shoe. So i was happy to overlook Zeitgeist. Just a case of diminishing returns since then. Still at least two albums worth of good songs written but nearly all butchered to some degree in the studio while his persona became full on reprehensible and interviews just jibberish. And then, Ogilala. I really enjoy it for what it is. It gives me hope that he might get out of his own way, stop making such stupid decisions, stop being so egotistical and who knows, maybe a more ambitious album with noteworthy contributions from all four pumpkins lies on the horizon. That would be quite the redemption. |
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11-07-2017, 05:22 PM | #47 | |
Minion of Satan
Location: breakfast
Posts: 6,174
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Quote:
To answer the question I was still onboard even through TFE (which I still think is way underrated). Tarantula came out and I was like cool! Then I heard the whole album and it was actually terrible, and that was the end, at least until James showed up onstage in LA... |
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11-07-2017, 05:45 PM | #48 |
Apocalyptic Poster
Location: vortex of lost souls
Posts: 1,969
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Also here for approaching 20 years and remember the hype on these boards around the Arising! tour as well as the early Zwan days. I remember being fully in the sway of Corgan-mania in the initial Zwan period and the album being a bit of a surprise when it came out.
Half of it is pretty good, I still really like Lyric, Honestly, Declarations Of Faith and some others. There's an increasing amount of iffy stuff on this one though which followed a pattern set by Machina and continued onwards... Heartsong, Baby Let's Rock, Desire, and Of A Broken Heart are all pretty bleh and could have been replaced by much stronger songs. The loud at any volume saga was also a bit of an issue, as well as the "hey! look at us larking about like old pals" vibe of the videos Last edited by New Art Rioter : 11-07-2017 at 05:59 PM. |
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11-07-2017, 06:11 PM | #49 |
Pledge
Posts: 186
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No, Adore was the end of the band's acclaim and success. It was the largest sales dropoff they ever experienced, and something they never recovered from. Machina sold even less. I remember most of my friends who liked the band around Mellon Collie and Siamese Dream just basically said "they suck now" in 1998 and that was the end of the good will towards the band by about 3/4 of the people who ever brought their records before that.
You can read almost everything he's done since then as an attempt to return to Mellon Collie glory. Everyone bailed at Adore, it just took a few years for the online community to also collapse. |
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11-07-2017, 06:19 PM | #50 |
Minion of Satan
Posts: 6,014
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11-07-2017, 07:14 PM | #51 | |
Apocalyptic Poster
Posts: 3,881
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Quote:
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11-07-2017, 07:58 PM | #52 | |
Apocalyptic Poster
Posts: 3,425
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If Billy actually releases the Zwan boxset, I hope it's something like: DISK 1: Zwan v1.0 demo album (Chrysanthemum, Glorious, etc) DISK 2: Glasshouse soundboard DISK 3: MSoTS remixed from scratch DISK 4: Djali Zwan |
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11-07-2017, 09:52 PM | #53 |
Minion of Satan
Location: the institute
Posts: 6,421
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people who thought that the band sucked with Adore were just the Rat in a Cage fans... they probably skipped half of the tracks on MCIS
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11-07-2017, 10:11 PM | #54 | |
Banned
Posts: 21,169
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Quote:
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11-08-2017, 01:59 AM | #55 |
Apocalyptic Poster
Location: A very stable individual
Posts: 1,689
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I f--king love Adore. Loved it from the first moment I put it on. I agree the hate was just from the harder rock fans who just wanted more of the same Bullet With Butterfly Wings, Zero, etc. But sound-wise, it's really not that far off from Mellon Collie. I felt it was a natural progression.
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11-08-2017, 02:41 AM | #56 |
Apocalyptic Poster
Posts: 1,695
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wrong record for the year. the late 90s were dire for rock and rock adjacent music like adore
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11-08-2017, 08:12 AM | #57 |
Apocalyptic Poster
Posts: 3,881
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Adore is pretty inaccessible though, there's a slow tempo to a lot of the songs, many of them worked a lot better live. I think the only chance Adore had of being commercially viable would be to cull the tracklist and running time.
Once Upon A Time Crestfallen Tear Annie-Dog Shame I like these tracks individually but they grind the momentum of the record to a fucking standstill. Adore Alt-90's Commercial Success Edition: To Sheila Ava Adore Perfect Daphne Descends Appels & Oranjes Pug Dusty & Pistol Pete Behold! The Night Mare Waiting For Martha Blank Page 17 Bonus: Let Me Give The World To You |
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11-08-2017, 10:50 AM | #58 |
Banned
Posts: 21,169
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I gotta admit, I was once a casual fan who lost all interest once Adore was out.
But thinking back in hindsight as a hardcore fan, It must've been so exciting to have Jimmy returning and then hearing The Everlasting Gaze as the lead single. How could you not be pumped up? And then the album drops and there's literally no other songs that sound like it all. I can only imagine listening to Machina for the first time had to have been a little anticlimactic considering how high the anticipation must've been. Not to say Machina's a particularly bad album or anything, it's just easy to imagine it being a letdown considering the circumstance. Come to think of it, that's been another Billy Corgan trend... Releasing a lead single and having it sound nothing like the rest of the album. Ava Adore, TEG, Tarantula, Being Beige ETC. |
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11-08-2017, 02:47 PM | #59 |
Apocalyptic Poster
Posts: 1,695
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tons of stuff on Machina sounds like The Everlasting Gaze. off the top of my head, The Imploding Voice, Heavy Metal Machine, even The Sacred + Profane...
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11-08-2017, 05:31 PM | #60 | |
Apocalyptic Poster
Location: A very stable individual
Posts: 1,689
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Quote:
01 Ava Adore 02 Eye 03 Perfect 04 Daphne Descends 05 Saturnine 06 Tear 07 Crestfallen 08 Waiting 09 Appels + Oranjes 10 Pug 11 Behold! The Night Mare 12 For Martha 13 Blank Page 14 Blissed And Gone Last edited by MyKeyZ : 11-08-2017 at 10:32 PM. |
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