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Old 08-26-2014, 12:04 AM   #1
chrisothoulo
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What if Zwan members all got along and they were still around making music today? Man I loved what little we had of the band. Truly a lot of amazing songs came out of that era. Kinda sad how everything has went.

Why doesnt BC keep these people in his life? They truly all cant be bad seeds.

 
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Old 08-26-2014, 12:13 AM   #2
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Corgan just has a hard time working with people. I will admit that Pajo seems to sail on the reputation of having played in Slint (there are multiple people who've affirmed he's kind of a sleazy dude) but Matt Sweeney and Paz are all major, in demand musicians who have worked with many artists and have not gotten complaints from anyone other than Corgan.

William can talk all he wants about how these are all "his songs" regardless of what name he plays under, but there is something major to be said about how playing with a certain set of musicians can affect how songs turn out in many different ways (not all of which even have to do with music as much as interpersonal relationships). This is why a band with James, Billy, D'arcy, and Jimmy had a distinctly different feel from Zwan, which had a distinctly different feel from Smashing Pumpkins with Billy, Jeff, Mike, and Nicole.

With Zwan, he really seemed to have an interesting group of people with great musical chemistry. I honestly think Sweeney might have been the guitarist who could have pushed Billy further than any other. But, whatever, it's been a decade since Zwan was a thing.

 
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Old 08-26-2014, 12:17 AM   #3
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I was just discussing this yesterday with Monte over Sunday afternoon tea.
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Old 08-26-2014, 12:53 AM   #4
Order 66
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liked zwan but i was relieved when it ended. they had good (musical) chemistry but it was pretty much The Billy Corgan Experience mk.2 ... i think he was just trying to shake the adore/machina-era grandiosity out of his system and used a new band as the vehicle. when in reality it probably could've been under the pumpkins name just as well

back then it would've been controversial but in retrospect with "SP2" and 3 and whatever dozen iterations it comes in in the future, its not that far fectched

 
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Old 08-26-2014, 02:24 AM   #5
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I never liked any zwan-era song..
not that I hate them, it's just that I can't really LIKE any of them. like, every MSOTS song sounds the same to me, and there's nothing in it for me that I can like. whatever it is that made me like siamese dream, gish, mcis, adore and machina is just not there.

and I can say the same thing about zeitgeist and oceania. (except that those two really do have songs that I hate)

 
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Old 08-26-2014, 06:48 AM   #6
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Billy's just an egomaniac prick, isn't he. Pretty sure that it's hard to work with him, moreso than it is to work with the others in that band.

 
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Old 08-26-2014, 07:13 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Order 66 View Post
liked zwan but i was relieved when it ended. they had good (musical) chemistry but it was pretty much The Billy Corgan Experience mk.2 ... i think he was just trying to shake the adore/machina-era grandiosity out of his system and used a new band as the vehicle. when in reality it probably could've been under the pumpkins name just as well

back then it would've been controversial but in retrospect with "SP2" and 3 and whatever dozen iterations it comes in in the future, its not that far fectched
Zwan is more SP to me than the Oceania lineup ever was

 
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Old 08-26-2014, 07:40 AM   #8
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I think Billy couldn't handle the fact that Zwan contained musicians who didn't owe him anything.

Billy has said many times that Matt/Pajo cared more about their "indie cred" than being famous. Why wouldn't they? They had the trump card that James and D'arcy never had; their own careers. I bet Billy would have loved to see them ruin that for the sake of gaining total control.

The dude is fucked up.

 
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Old 08-26-2014, 09:07 AM   #9
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He makes shit so fucking complicated.

Just play music together you fuckheads. All this intangible shit doesn't matter.

 
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Old 08-26-2014, 09:32 AM   #10
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Slint is a better band than SP

 
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Old 08-26-2014, 11:15 AM   #11
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zwan was a great band, until billy ruined it in the studio.
"lets make a happy poppy album" - ugh.

I can understand the bands frustration and how they reacted to billy switching things up with the album compared to what they had built up till that point.
In my head billy told them to shut up and cash their cheques, and then it blew up in his face that they could actually check out and just cash their cheques and not give a fuck.

 
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Old 08-26-2014, 02:21 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by T&T View Post
zwan was a great band, until billy ruined it in the studio.
"lets make a happy poppy album" - ugh
yeah that's pretty much exactly how it went down. the album is pretty bad save for a few songs. but there's so many good zwan songs out there. if they just released the spun soundtrack properly it would be way better than msots. obviously this point has been beaten to death here for the past 10 years. but it's still so frustrating, considering that bc was still writing great music but couldn't get out of his own way. luckily now oceania has proven that bc is no longer writing great music, so it's not as frustrating.

 
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Old 08-26-2014, 02:24 PM   #13
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i havent even thought about zwan or listened to them in years. but this whole setlist thing made me revisit so i could pick a few to rep that era, and was surprised again by how many songs i like from then.

 
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Old 08-26-2014, 02:31 PM   #14
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My feelings on Zwan have always been iffy. It's such an odd time period to me, and the vibe I get from it puts me off from it. The music never really stuck with me.

 
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Old 08-26-2014, 02:38 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chrisothoulo View Post
Why doesnt BC keep these people in his life? They truly all cant be bad seeds.
if every roommate you've ever had has been shitty, then NEWSFLASH you're the shitty roommate.

alternatively: if you think everyone you meet is an asshole, then you're the asshole.

either way...go fuck yourself billy.

 
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Old 08-26-2014, 02:45 PM   #16
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Paz was the downfall of that band. They should have kept the 4 piece line up with Pajo on bass instead. She clearly was the cause of all the drama after she made the rounds and everyone got jealous of everyone else.

 
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Old 08-26-2014, 02:50 PM   #17
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Of course a woman is to blame again. Yoko broke up the Beatles, Courtney killed Cobain... it is like that since Eva, isn't it?

 
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Old 08-26-2014, 03:02 PM   #18
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http://img2.bdbphotos.com/images/ori...d.jpg?djet1p5k

 
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Old 08-26-2014, 03:09 PM   #19
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Different scenario. John was bringing Yoko to the studio and she was interfering and making the other Beatles uncomfortable. Courtney is a psycho hosebeast who, if not directly, at least drove the man to suicide.

As far as Zwan, introducing an attractive female such as Paz (I mean, she's alright), would create a sexual tension if different members of the band had the hots for her. Men will break their allegiances to each other over a girl. Come on, as if you haven't heard of a scenario with two best friends where one steals the others girlfriend...they become sworn enemies after that.

 
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Old 08-26-2014, 03:17 PM   #20
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but it's not always the girl's fault - look at the smashing pumpkins!

no, d'arcy didn't break up the band, we didn't let her!
IT WAS JAMES IHA! yes, james iha broke up the smashing pumpkins!

 
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Old 08-26-2014, 03:18 PM   #21
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http://i.giflike.com/fZVF2jC.gif

 
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Old 08-26-2014, 03:25 PM   #22
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That gif pretty much sums it up, lol.

 
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Old 08-26-2014, 03:25 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sonic Johnny View Post
Slint is a better band than SP
The guys in Slint have better personal relationships with each other as opposed to SP which...you know.

I love both bands though.

 
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Old 08-26-2014, 03:27 PM   #24
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Slint is alright, but better than SP?
http://i973.photobucket.com/albums/a.../kanye-nod.gif

 
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Old 08-26-2014, 03:29 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sonic Johnny View Post
Slint is a different band than SP
fix'd

 
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Old 08-26-2014, 03:30 PM   #26
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YouTube comment:

Quote:
Kev's Bootlegs

This was their debut show. The audience had no idea what to expect. There had been rumors that it was an acoustic set. So when they came out and started with rock song the crowd went nuts. I paid some guy 30 bucks for a tix. That was expensive for me back then.

 
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Old 08-26-2014, 10:11 PM   #27
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Why did everyone start cheering when Corgan sang "Yesterday..."? It was already clear it was a bombastic song prior to the vocals.

Props to the cameraman for focusing on Jimmy at 0:38-->.

 
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Old 08-26-2014, 10:57 PM   #28
themadcaplaughs
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Order 66 View Post
liked zwan but i was relieved when it ended. they had good (musical) chemistry but it was pretty much The Billy Corgan Experience mk.2 ... i think he was just trying to shake the adore/machina-era grandiosity out of his system and used a new band as the vehicle. when in reality it probably could've been under the pumpkins name just as well

back then it would've been controversial but in retrospect with "SP2" and 3 and whatever dozen iterations it comes in in the future, its not that far fectched
I actually think that if Billy had taken a year off after the Machina touring and then came back with what ended up being Zwan as Smashing Pumpkins in 2001, it would have been a much smoother transition. Yea people probably would have wondered where James went, but without all the attention of the band "breaking up" it probably would not have affected many peoples' perception.

Instead we got...

-2001-2005 with Billy saying Smashing Pumpkins were dead, not coming back, and we should stop living in the past.
-Two years (2005-2007) of "who's in the band drama."
-One year (2007-2008) of Billy saying he and Jimmy were always the foundation of Smashing Pumpkins.
-Having one half of that foundation leave in 2009, and Billy going on with the name anyway.
-Billy spending 2009-now attempting to convince us that this is all his music, and names are irrelevant, and that he even considers Zwan and solo songs to be de-facto Smashing Pumpkins songs.

If, in 2001, he'd just bit the bullet and carried on Smashing Pumpkins with Jimmy and let Iha do whatever it was Iha wanted to do, we'd probably be in the same place we are now, but with much less drama.

 
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Old 08-26-2014, 11:00 PM   #29
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I wonder if Jimmy would've left in 2009 (or even earlier) if the band had been going solid for 8 years

 
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Old 08-26-2014, 11:10 PM   #30
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I don't see how it could have been going solid with Jimmy for so many years, touring and all.
He got two kids during those 8 years, he didn't want to spend months playing gigs.

 
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