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Old 08-02-2018, 05:13 PM   #121
Shadaloo
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Yeah, Speed Kills is pretty awesome either way. I like them both for different reasons. The heavier version just straight up RAWKS the whole way through, and the more mellow one has some fucking unreal guitar solos. Is it James doing the solo work on that one? I always assumed it was but I'm not sure.

I've always wondered why Bill recorded so many different versions of songs for Machina. He seemed to do that more with that album than any other. What are everyone's preferences for the songs that have multiple versions? These are mine (I'm not sure what the official names are for some of them):

Blue Skies Bring Tears - Heavy version
Here's to the Atom Bomb - Judas O version
Saturnine - Judas O version
Try - Machina II version
Dross - "Rare" version
Glass - "Won't You Please Talk to Me" version
Cash Car Star - Version 1
Heavy Metal Machine - Ugh, I guess Machina I because the one from Machina II is ear cancer
Machina getting cut down and eventually split into two albums and the songs making it to M1 being worked over from their Arising versions is part of it, and it also might be because we just have so much material available to us compared to other albums. I'd say around 1997 marks a point when Billy started really approaching songs from different angles and doing totally different versions with TEITBITE/TBITEITB. Then Adore's production was this giant nightmare from which he carried LMGTWTY, Cash Car Star and Saturnine forward.

My personal preferences with split hairs and demo comparisons:

TEG - M1 version, Disco King sucked
Raindrops + Sunshowers - M1 version. Studio demo is promising but undeveloped.
Try - M1 version. The MII ambulance siren synth drives me insane.
Heavy Metal Machine - M1. I refuse to accept that the MII/Myspace versions are anything other than first-take drum machine demos
GATGC - Studio demo is a thing of sublime beauty and is the only right answer
Crying Tree Of Mercury - Myspace piano demo
BSBT - Arising/FAEOMM tape version
Sacred + Profane - Intro drumbeats on the promo version are a nice added touch
Age of Innocence: Promo mix is better
Glass' Theme - MII version. I like that it's to the point.
Dross - MII version
Cash Car Star - Version 1/Alternate
Saturnine - Judas O version, but I think it'd like the MII version more if it weren't coming from a deep cave twelve feet away
If There Is A God - FAEOMM tape version
Home - MII version

...And the B-side/Japan version of Speed Kills takes it for me.

Last edited by Shadaloo : 08-02-2018 at 05:18 PM.

 
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Old 08-03-2018, 03:53 AM   #122
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the japanese cd uses an edit of speed kills, which is only 3 minutes something instead of 5 minutes something.

 
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Old 08-03-2018, 06:48 AM   #123
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Pissed me off when I was buying the Japanese version for that song...

 
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Old 08-03-2018, 06:53 AM   #124
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i'm glad.
thanks for sharing.

 
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Old 08-03-2018, 07:35 AM   #125
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Thanks for your EMPATHY !

May at least never have to buy a newer version...

 
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Old 08-03-2018, 08:44 AM   #126
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Is it any surprise that the Japanese is shorter?

 
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Old 08-03-2018, 08:44 AM   #127
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I mean, think about it.

 
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Old 08-03-2018, 09:40 AM   #128
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Is it any surprise that the Americans don't have it at all?

No need to even think about it why... #circumstances

 
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Old 08-03-2018, 10:37 AM   #129
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Originally Posted by Shadaloo View Post
Machina getting cut down and eventually split into two albums and the songs making it to M1 being worked over from their Arising versions is part of it, and it also might be because we just have so much material available to us compared to other albums. I'd say around 1997 marks a point when Billy started really approaching songs from different angles and doing totally different versions with TEITBITE/TBITEITB. Then Adore's production was this giant nightmare from which he carried LMGTWTY, Cash Car Star and Saturnine forward.

My personal preferences with split hairs and demo comparisons:

TEG - M1 version, Disco King sucked
Raindrops + Sunshowers - M1 version. Studio demo is promising but undeveloped.
Try - M1 version. The MII ambulance siren synth drives me insane.
Heavy Metal Machine - M1. I refuse to accept that the MII/Myspace versions are anything other than first-take drum machine demos
GATGC - Studio demo is a thing of sublime beauty and is the only right answer
Crying Tree Of Mercury - Myspace piano demo
BSBT - Arising/FAEOMM tape version
Sacred + Profane - Intro drumbeats on the promo version are a nice added touch
Age of Innocence: Promo mix is better
Glass' Theme - MII version. I like that it's to the point.
Dross - MII version
Cash Car Star - Version 1/Alternate
Saturnine - Judas O version, but I think it'd like the MII version more if it weren't coming from a deep cave twelve feet away
If There Is A God - FAEOMM tape version
Home - MII version

...And the B-side/Japan version of Speed Kills takes it for me.
Agree that TEG was better than Disco King but I did kinda like the "you run, you run so slow" part in DK. I wish he would have included that in another song.

I bolded the ones that have alternate versions I've never heard. Any idea where I could find those?

Also, love the description of the Saturnine recording, lol. It's so shitty I can't listen to it. It probably would be decent if not for that, though I still think I'd prefer the Judas O version because it's more interesting than just Billy hitting power chords slowly.

 
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Old 08-03-2018, 10:53 AM   #130
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I gotcher back fam

I used to never, ever listen to that version of Saturnine but over time I grew to appreciate the miserable vibe what they were going for.

 
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Old 08-03-2018, 11:00 AM   #131
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have you guys ever tried drugs?

saturnine is fucking tripcore.

 
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Old 08-03-2018, 11:47 AM   #132
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Guys, I think we all know what would have made Machina better.


 
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Old 08-03-2018, 11:53 AM   #133
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Originally Posted by Corgan's Bluff View Post
Is it any surprise that the Americans don't have it at all?

No need to even think about it why... #circumstances
You racist against Americans (God Bless), bro?

 
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Old 08-03-2018, 12:48 PM   #134
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You racist against Americans (God Bless), bro?
#circumcisions

 
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Old 08-03-2018, 03:08 PM   #135
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Guys, I think we all know what would have made Machina better.

Give me Chino Moreno, he was awesome with them

 
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Old 08-03-2018, 10:34 PM   #136
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I have been making these lists since MACHINA II came out and over the years, through all the similar posts, I’ve noticed something: everyone’s is so vastly different from mine. Like, it is baffling some of the choices and the stuff usually left out or favored.

 
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Old 08-04-2018, 10:15 AM   #137
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I have been making these lists since MACHINA II came out and over the years, through all the similar posts, I’ve noticed something: everyone’s is so vastly different from mine. Like, it is baffling some of the choices and the stuff usually left out or favored.
Yeah I hear you. I feel like there is no definitive version. There are some M2 songs I absolutely love that few others seem to (Glass, Dross, White Spyder) and others everyone seems to love but me (Slow Dawn, Real Love). So maybe it’s all really good. Or maybe it’s all crap. I just wish it had all gotten released for real back then so that more people would have heard it and maybe we’d all agree on whether or not SP1 ended on a high note.

 
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Old 08-05-2018, 12:19 AM   #138
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Just thinking about all this and wondering whether Zeitgeist could have been better. I don’t know if it would have made a difference but I feel like if Billy had made more of an emphasis on the songs he wrote in that era that were more obscure and/or epic, it might have been better received. I’m not sure if the American Gothic songs were in some stage of development when Zeitgeist was recorded, but let’s say they were. If so, what do you think about this track listing?


1. United States
2. Tarantula
3. 7 Shades
4. Again, Again
5. Starz
6. Come On, Let’s Go
7. Sunkissed
8. Rose March
9. Stellar
10. Pomp & Circumstances
11. Bring the Light
12. Gossamer
13. Zeitgeist

I dumped Doomsday Schlock, Orchid and FGAC because they all sound various shades of shitty. Also dropped That’s the Way because the lyrics are pathetic, and Neverlost because it’s just a Blissed and Gone rehash.

 
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