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Old 01-06-2016, 05:19 PM   #271
Grox
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Originally Posted by T&T View Post
I like the way the synth sounds in roustabout. it's so unexpected and unique.
i don't think any other artists EVER have done something like that.
it's almost better then all the grand Renaissance paintings ever.
Considering it's the first track billy has written inspired by Baby AJ, I look forward to what's in store for the future!
track was written and recorded in 2014

 
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Old 01-06-2016, 05:20 PM   #272
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Originally Posted by werideatdusk View Post
NIN, peak Beatles, Bowie, etc
The Beatles are probably the biggest influence on Billy in terms of intense studio detail, but they don't compare in terms of the actual amount of things happening in their songs. There are SP songs with well over a hundred tracks of instrumentation. George Martin is a wizard, but I don't even know if that kind of track layering was possible in the 60s. When Queen recorded Bohemian Rhapsody, the number of vocal tracks required them to bundle many tracks together into "songs" and then play those groupings of tracks back and re-record the multitude of voices onto a smaller number of tracks. So there were definitely technological limitations that had disappeared by the time Butch Vig sat down behind the glass and recorded the Pumpkins.

 
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Old 01-06-2016, 08:04 PM   #273
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not entirely accurate.

SD, too, was recorded in analogue. it's more a matter of working procedures that got more advanced, but the gear itself is essentially very similar. i reckon they used two 24-track tape machines for SD, and just kept bouncing stuff until they had it all tidied up. i'm guessing it was pretty difficult to mix it, though, because you had many channels that doubled as "vocal/guitar line at 2:43/harmonize at 3:33/double chorus from 4:11 onwards" kinda stuff. butch vig mentioned he had to draw "guitar maps" to be able to get his head around all that stuff.

the beatles had much, much less stuff going on simultaneously. their main innovations were their use of effects, ADT (simulated double tracking for vocals), and interesting arrangements that step outside the rock formulas (brass instruments, introducing sitars to rock music, etc).

 
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Old 01-06-2016, 08:08 PM   #274
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btw a track like bohemian rhapsody has much more tracks than anything off SD, i'd reckon.

three singers singing four part harmonies, with each of them doubling his line three times, and then repeating the process until it sounds like a choir. it's easily like 140 vocal tracks alone all combined

 
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Old 01-06-2016, 10:32 PM   #275
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Songfacts – Bohemian Rhapsody

Quote:
The backing track came together quickly, but Queen spent days overdubbing the vocals in the studio using a 24-track tape machine. The analog recording technology was taxed by the song's multitracked scaramouches and fandangos: by the time they were done, about 180 tracks were layered together and "bounced" down into sub-mixes. Brian May recalled in various interviews being able to see through the tape as it was worn so thin with overdubs. Producer Roy Thomas Baker also recalls Mercury coming into the studio proclaiming, "oh, I've got a few more 'Galileos' dear!" as overdub after overdub piled up.
damn. I assumed that there were tape machines with more than 24 tracks by the 90s I guess.

I would hazard a guess that Queen themselves were a huge influence on Billy in terms of guitar layering and harmonics, and in the Z era of course, vocals as well. The Beatles I think are obviously a direct influence on the Pumpkins in a lot of ways and song arrangement is a big one... When you hear an SP song with a ton of different orchestral things going on, it's directly tied to the Beatles I think. But in terms of the lengths to which the respective bands took that eye for minute detail, the Beatles don't even come close to the Pumpkins, not even on on Sgt. Pepper or Abbey Road

 
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Old 01-07-2016, 05:11 AM   #276
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Originally Posted by Grox View Post
track was written and recorded in 2014
that's not how it works.
babies take 9 months to make in a womans stomach.
and the woman gets the baby when she decides she loves the man.
no one knows if billy really is the father of Baby AJ
like we don't know how many times billy re-wrote and re-recorded Roustabout.
I think it's safe to assume that since Baby AJ was born in November, billy had plenty of time to re-write and dedicate this song to him.

Do you think Airplane mode would object?
do Airplane mode mothers take longer or shorter to make a baby? It might actually be the same but I'm not sure, she should do and AMA on Netphoria. Who's going to ask her about the artificial insemination? I nominate mickeyShambles

 
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Old 01-07-2016, 09:07 AM   #277
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Originally Posted by redbreegull View Post
damn. I assumed that there were tape machines with more than 24 tracks by the 90s I guess.

I would hazard a guess that Queen themselves were a huge influence on Billy in terms of guitar layering and harmonics, and in the Z era of course, vocals as well. The Beatles I think are obviously a direct influence on the Pumpkins in a lot of ways and song arrangement is a big one... When you hear an SP song with a ton of different orchestral things going on, it's directly tied to the Beatles I think. But in terms of the lengths to which the respective bands took that eye for minute detail, the Beatles don't even come close to the Pumpkins, not even on on Sgt. Pepper or Abbey Road
yeah, of course, studio practices were much more limited back then.
it would be really interesting to do what the beatles could come up with with more advanced studio methods.

it's funny you mentioned song arrangements being a direct tie to the beatles though - i don't think i had ever heard anybody who constructs their songs like old man bill used to do. the beatles are much more "tidy" in that regard, as in - their songs usually adhere to verse/chorus/verse/chorus.
billiam used to have many different sections which were all spinoffs on the same progression that served as different parts of the song, which i could never recreate with my own writing, and frankly hadn't really seen anybody do quite like him.

 
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Old 01-07-2016, 01:48 PM   #278
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i love how sharp the mellotron on Spaceboy is

 
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Old 01-07-2016, 03:00 PM   #279
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Originally Posted by teh b0lly!!1 View Post
yeah, of course, studio practices were much more limited back then.
it would be really interesting to do what the beatles could come up with with more advanced studio methods.

it's funny you mentioned song arrangements being a direct tie to the beatles though - i don't think i had ever heard anybody who constructs their songs like old man bill used to do. the beatles are much more "tidy" in that regard, as in - their songs usually adhere to verse/chorus/verse/chorus.
billiam used to have many different sections which were all spinoffs on the same progression that served as different parts of the song, which i could never recreate with my own writing, and frankly hadn't really seen anybody do quite like him.
I agree there really is something unique (to my ears anyway) about the way Corgan used to put songs together, which is kind of why I asked the question. I was wondering if anyone else had honestly heard songs arranged with so much attention to detail, especially in terms of all the "little things" happening in SP songs below the surface. At the time of the Beatles, I don't think any popular music bands had the sheer number of different things going on in their songs that SP does. When you listen to classic SP, the arrangements are almost more like the way an orchestra plays, with many instruments creating stacks of sound but also others doing tiny little almost unnoticeable inflections, harmonies, accentuations. There are a million bands that were inspired by the Beatles in this way, but I kind of see them as the direct precursor to the pursuit of this kind of studio detail in rock music, although comparatively you are right, their songs are much "tidier." But the inclusion of mellotron, sitar, and violin/cello as orchestral instruments almost certainly comes from the Beatles.

another big influence on the way the instruments are put together is probably Phil Spector

 
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Old 01-09-2016, 01:14 AM   #280
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Can anybody tell me if that is a scream toward the end of Disarm or is it a cymbal? I always thought it was a scream because in the Vieuphoria tape he says the mellotron is used for people screaming.

 
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Old 01-09-2016, 02:20 AM   #281
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Like at the very end? That's a cymbal

There's a lot of cymbal swells towards the end

anything that sounds like a scream is probably an orchestral thing

 
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Old 01-09-2016, 02:39 AM   #282
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It's at 3:07 in this version of this video

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d1acEVmnVhI

 
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Old 01-09-2016, 03:07 AM   #283
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Quote:
Originally Posted by redbreegull View Post
I agree there really is something unique (to my ears anyway) about the way Corgan used to put songs together, which is kind of why I asked the question. I was wondering if anyone else had honestly heard songs arranged with so much attention to detail, especially in terms of all the "little things" happening in SP songs below the surface. At the time of the Beatles, I don't think any popular music bands had the sheer number of different things going on in their songs that SP does. When you listen to classic SP, the arrangements are almost more like the way an orchestra plays, with many instruments creating stacks of sound but also others doing tiny little almost unnoticeable inflections, harmonies, accentuations. There are a million bands that were inspired by the Beatles in this way, but I kind of see them as the direct precursor to the pursuit of this kind of studio detail in rock music, although comparatively you are right, their songs are much "tidier." But the inclusion of mellotron, sitar, and violin/cello as orchestral instruments almost certainly comes from the Beatles.

another big influence on the way the instruments are put together is probably Phil Spector
It was the guitar squigglies throughout Cherub Rock for me. Forever hooked. How can you stop mining for these nugs once you notice they're happening.

Listening to SP (esp. SD thru Adore) both trained my ears to listen below the surface and also spoiled me to the extent that, yes, the studio output of many (most?) other rock artists just doesn't sound nearly as interesting

 
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Old 01-09-2016, 06:31 AM   #284
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When he goes "you once made me smuh-eye ... Then you'd stray"

In Being Beige

I like the choked/gasped out "smuh-eye" = best moment on EMTEA

Last edited by run2pee : 01-09-2016 at 12:52 PM.

 
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Old 01-09-2016, 10:58 AM   #285
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The falsetto Michael Jackson 'oh's on the Widow Wake My Mind intro are the worst thing he's ever done

 
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Old 01-09-2016, 03:39 PM   #286
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Quote:
Originally Posted by redbreegull View Post
one night soon ima smoke hella trees and write here about all the amazing little things I've been noticing on Adore
I remember doing that thing where you pull out your headphones partway so you only hear some of the track, and I heard what sounded like muffled crying through a lot of "For Martha" and I was like "what is this fucking sorcery, holy shit"

Probably completely my imagination but at the time it was like I'd stumbled onto a profoundly moving secret, lol, lol

 
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Old 01-14-2016, 07:43 AM   #287
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"Welcome to nowhere fast!"

Greatest opening line to a rock song ever.

 
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Old 01-14-2016, 10:32 AM   #288
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the finer point of this song is that the vocals have been removed, no offense to the b0llster



this is the kind of thing that still gets my dick hard after 25 years of listening to the Pumpkins







 
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Old 01-14-2016, 11:00 AM   #289
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Fuck yeah

Coolest stuff on the reissues were the instrumentals and SBDs

 
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Old 01-14-2016, 11:06 AM   #290
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Right

that Jellybelly is insane too


 
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Old 01-14-2016, 04:00 PM   #291
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that's not even the greatest pumpkins opening line
the opening of Jellybelly is one of those misheard lyrics i always wish was the real line - "We're going nowhere fast." wtf does "Welcome to nowhere fast" mean? another gripe - the second verse of Here is No Why sounds like "Somewhere, people tear down over a frowning smile." the actual line makes more literal sense "Somewhere, he pulls his hair down over a frowning smile" - but the way Bill pronounces it is just

 
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Old 01-14-2016, 04:00 PM   #292
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best opening line on MCIS?

"the useless drag of another day"

 
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Old 01-14-2016, 05:48 PM   #293
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"Time is never time at all" or "I fear that I am ordinary just like everyone"

I quite enjoyed "the useless drag of another day" when I was like 15

_____________

I've probably misheard like half of the SP catalog at some point because BC enunciates things so weirdly

 
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Old 01-14-2016, 07:38 PM   #294
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Originally Posted by Grox View Post
but the way Bill pronounces it is just
Sodomy is such a part of you.

 
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Old 01-14-2016, 08:01 PM   #295
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"Somewhere, he pulls his hair down over a frowning smile" - but the way Bill pronounces it is just
Don't moody teenagers always have hair that obscures their face? I thought it was just about some moody teenager with a cynical facial expression (though I don't know what a "frowning smile" is supposed to look like) covering his face with hair to be all edgy.

The whole song sounds like it's about a moody teenager (maybe Corgan's younger self) that Corgan is telling to cheer up.

 
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Old 01-14-2016, 11:29 PM   #296
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Poots View Post
that's not even the greatest pumpkins opening line
"Well, that's like, your opinion man."

 
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Old 01-14-2016, 11:43 PM   #297
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I DON' WANNA FIGHT
EVERY SINGLE NIGHT


by far best pumpkin lyric to open a song /thread

 
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Old 01-15-2016, 10:16 AM   #298
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now THAT's wrestling promo material.
could even have been the start of disc 2 of some double album, say mellon collie.

 
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Old 01-15-2016, 12:48 PM   #299
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the opening of Jellybelly is one of those misheard lyrics i always wish was the real line - "We're going nowhere fast." wtf does "Welcome to nowhere fast" mean?
You answered your own question here. "We're going (nowhere fast)" -> "Welcome to (nowhere fast)". It means you're already there. Get it?

 
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Old 01-15-2016, 04:38 PM   #300
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You answered your own question here. "We're going (nowhere fast)" -> "Welcome to (nowhere fast)". It means you're already there. Get it?
hm that never occurred to me. i stand corrected. the actual line is pretty cool to me now. damn. it's an awesome play on words.

 
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