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Old 06-17-2014, 10:46 AM   #31
magikarp99
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MCIS Demos III: ???? Multiple transfers of this circulate, originally treed with Reel Time Sessions?
i found two sources of this. one is a .shn set, so i guess that's the original one. there's also a .flac set, that claims to be a "fix".
If you have the same fix I do, it also claims to be of a lower generation. I guess someone who has both needs to compare them and determine which should be used.

 
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Old 06-17-2014, 11:55 AM   #32
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Kitty Kat is the same original mix as was on the Siamese Dream promo cassette. Definitely worth including
are you sure? i thought it was the other way around (it was the b-side/pisces version), and that even the two versions of blew away were identical.

 
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Old 06-17-2014, 01:10 PM   #33
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are you sure? i thought it was the other way around (it was the b-side/pisces version), and that even the two versions of blew away were identical.
Oh, wow, yeah you are entirely right. In which case let's incIude Kitty Kat Original Mix too then. I have a cassette rip in FLAC. I think it was posted on Netphoria some time.

 
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Old 06-17-2014, 01:16 PM   #34
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but isn't that one unlistenable?

(not that that necessarily means it shouldn't be shared, of course. everyone can still decide what they want to download, and what they'd rather skip.)

 
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Old 06-17-2014, 01:35 PM   #35
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Well, the first 1:30 has a weird phase shift. And the frequency response begins dropping off at 3Khz, entirely dropping off at 7Khz. So, yeah, it is pretty awful.

 
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Old 06-18-2014, 04:22 AM   #36
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does anyone remember "gish rough mixes"? (and is that of any interest?)
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I don't remember this.

How about TheFutureEmbrace premaster (was that ever circulated in anything but mp3?)
here's the "gish rough mix" tape: http://www.spfreaks.com/?page=COLLDETAILS&item=1723
would anyone still have the old files for this?

TFE premaster? ah yes, those mp3s, all of them with one or two seconds missing at the start or the end of the tracks. that's the one right? is it really a premaster, by the way? maybe the mp3 encoding made it "look" less compressed?

 
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Old 06-18-2014, 04:25 AM   #37
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I haven't heard either and would be very interested

 
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Old 06-18-2014, 04:59 AM   #38
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As far as I know to this day the copy of Sequence IV that is circulating that nearly everyone has, had all sorts of digital cleanup and fuckery done to it.

When I brought this up at some point in the past decade someone came forward and was going to circulate a clean copy of the original source but as far as I know that has never happened.

If you are going to do this I recommend not including Sequence IV unless you can get back to the original, not the fucked up one everyone has from the hub. The fucked up version needs to die in flames and I'm amazed it still has not been corrected because I started trying to fix this 13 years ago.

 
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Old 06-18-2014, 05:38 AM   #39
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TFE premaster? ah yes, those mp3s, all of them with one or two seconds missing at the start or the end of the tracks. that's the one right? is it really a premaster, by the way? maybe the mp3 encoding made it "look" less compressed?
I am fairly confident this advanced promo is also is a pre-master.
Disregard the below, it probably went through some normalisation process when ripped.

Yes, MP3 encoding can make things look less compressed but generally not this much.
One of the key things is that the average volume is 4dB lower, but it still peaks to -0dB, this is significant, as compression does not affect it quite this much.

In fact, decent comparisons can be made because the MP3 encoder version and settings are embedded in the MP3 itself.

By volume matching, and then re-encoding you can see the difference in the waveform clearly.

Here is the mastered version of A100 from the official release (red indicates clipping):


Here is the advanced promo:


Volume matching the official release to the advanced promo gives the following:


Encoding to MP3 with identical settings gives the following:


Overlaying the waveform of the newly encoded MP3 onto the advanced promo. The magenta is the waveform of the advanced copy:


And for good measure, the official release encoded to MP3 with no volume adjustments:

Last edited by magikarp99 : 06-18-2014 at 06:23 AM.

 
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Old 06-18-2014, 05:53 AM   #40
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notice that the TFE "premaster" didn't necessarily come from a promo. i've got the watermarked promo, and that one definitely doesn't contain a premaster.

the TFE "premaster" appeared as a "scene" leak. mp3s only. if i remember it correctly, the files were called _bla, or something similar. that must be some indication about who leaked it?

if you want to check the watermarked TFE promo, i've got EAC rips of five different copies. (track 1 is missing. they added some weird copy protection, which made track 1 not readable.)
https://www.mediafire.com/folder/di5...fe-watermarked (the number between "tfe-" and "-txx.flac" is the number that was on each watermarked cd-r.)

 
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Old 06-18-2014, 06:01 AM   #41
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i'm not entirely convinced by your analysis, magickarper.
if anything, you're showing that mp3 encoding can really change what the audio file looks like. you lose that "blocked" look immediately.
what if there was a volume adjustment or normalisation before they encoded to mp3? then you'd have no information about that in the mp3 file, right? (you don't know how exactly the volume was reduced, or how much.)
maybe they did take the commercial release, put it through their ripping software, and the "premaster mp3s" is what came out of it? that doesn't seem entirely impossible, does it?

 
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Old 06-18-2014, 06:03 AM   #42
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notice that the TFE "premaster" didn't necessarily come from a promo. i've got the watermarked promo, and that one definitely doesn't contain a premaster.

the TFE "premaster" appeared as a "scene" leak. mp3s only. if i remember it correctly, the files were called _bla, or something similar. that must be some indication about who leaked it?
Ah, right. It is labelled as an advanced promo from whoever I downloaded it from.

It came with this image:


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Originally Posted by Cool As Ice Cream View Post
if you want to check the watermarked TFE promo, i've got EAC rips of five different copies. (track 1 is missing. they added some weird copy protection, which made track 1 not readable.)
https://www.mediafire.com/folder/di5...fe-watermarked (the number between "tfe-" and "-txx.flac" is the number that was on each watermarked cd-r.)
I'll take a look.

 
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Old 06-18-2014, 06:20 AM   #43
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i'm not entirely convinced by your analysis, magickarper.
if anything, you're showing that mp3 encoding can really change what the audio file looks like. you lose that "blocked" look immediately.
what if there was a volume adjustment or normalisation before they encoded to mp3? then you'd have no information about that in the mp3 file, right? (you don't know how exactly the volume was reduced, or how much.)
maybe they did take the commercial release, put it through their ripping software, and the "premaster mp3s" is what came out of it? that doesn't seem entirely impossible, does it?
You've convinced me otherwise. Disregard my analysis.

 
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Old 06-18-2014, 06:22 AM   #44
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Ah, right. It is labelled as an advanced promo from whoever I downloaded it from.

It came with this image:
were these the _bla files? (i have not seem those together with a picture of the watermarked cd-r.)
if they indeed came from that cd, then it's not a premaster.
i believe the audio doesn't look identical to the commercial release (which might explain the difference between blue and pink, i guess), but it's still clipping.

 
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Old 06-18-2014, 06:25 AM   #45
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You've convinced me otherwise. Disregard my analysis.
does this mean it's certainly not a premaster? those leaked mp3s, i mean. (i was just questioning it. i personally don't know.)
what if you listen to it? you have good ears, don't you?

 
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Old 06-18-2014, 06:31 AM   #46
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does this mean it's certainly not a premaster? those leaked mp3s, i mean. (i was just questioning it. i personally don't know.)
what if you listen to it? you have good ears, don't you?
You convinced me that my analysis wasn't enough to determine that it was. I'll find my IEMs and take a listen.

 
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Old 06-18-2014, 06:34 AM   #47
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about waveforms and what compression can do to them:
i remember we made the same mistake with the zeitgeist watermarked cd-r (people were convinced this contained the pre-master of the album after seeing the waveforms of some mp3s off it - it does not, unfortunately), and when looking for a promo cd-r that contained the machina pre-master (i once thought i had found one promo with the machina pre-master, but was basing myself on wma files the owner had sent me, before making a lossless rip).

 
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Old 06-18-2014, 06:49 AM   #48
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Yeah. It is all archived here: http://forums.netphoria.org/showthread.php?t=150622

 
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Old 06-18-2014, 07:24 AM   #49
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Something to note, is that while your watermarked editions seem to all run the same duration as the official release.

The bla mp3s do not, they run a little bit slow.

So that's another point towards this edition being different.

 
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Old 06-18-2014, 07:50 AM   #50
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the bla mp3s also seem to be missing one or two seconds at the start or end of the tracks, if i remember it correctly.
maybe they used a watermarked cd-r as a source, but instead of ripping it, like a normal, non-copy-protected cd, they captured the audio somehow (e.g. play cd on computer and record from the soundcard), track per track? that could explain the incomplete tracks. it doesn't explain running a little bit slow. or does it?

 
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Old 06-18-2014, 08:21 AM   #51
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Well the tags indicate it was ripped with EAC. But I guess that may be inaccurate, or it may have been ripped from a copy.

The seconds missing from the start and end don't account for the difference in duration, but I guess if they captured the audio off the CD with an imprecise ADC or DAC involved then that may account for it. If that were the case it could also account for the change in dynamics.

I think I like this theory best so far. Partly because if this were a pre-master, I think it would be much more obvious.

Last edited by magikarp99 : 06-18-2014 at 08:30 AM.

 
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Old 06-18-2014, 09:34 AM   #52
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As far as I know to this day the copy of Sequence IV that is circulating that nearly everyone has, had all sorts of digital cleanup and fuckery done to it.

When I brought this up at some point in the past decade someone came forward and was going to circulate a clean copy of the original source but as far as I know that has never happened.

If you are going to do this I recommend not including Sequence IV unless you can get back to the original, not the fucked up one everyone has from the hub. The fucked up version needs to die in flames and I'm amazed it still has not been corrected because I started trying to fix this 13 years ago.
No kidding. It sounds awful. So many digital artifacts.

 
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Old 06-18-2014, 03:49 PM   #53
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Just wanted to chime in as seeding potential

 
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Old 06-19-2014, 02:03 PM   #54
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Okay, I dug around and found some of my older files.

I found the lower gen copy of MCIS Demos III without any of the "fixes".
I also found the original QAOS tape sides.

Right, here are FFPs of what I believe to be original releases. It would be good if someone would check these against their own.

Code:
Checksums removed, they were inaccurate.
Does anyone have the following?:
Reel Time Sessions Tree CDs (containing Reel Time Sessions, and original MCIS Demos III higher gen release)
Triple Tree CDs (containing Gravity Demos, and Friends and Enemies of Modern Music)

Last edited by magikarp99 : 06-26-2014 at 11:02 AM.

 
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Old 06-19-2014, 02:04 PM   #55
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It was originally leaked by the owner of the master DAT to a few CD-Rs via trade to some people. Then from there it sprung to ebay and eventually the shns. I already ripped the orignal traded CD-R and upped it to whatcd last year I think.

Edit:
WWWAAAAAIIIT I guess I can't remember if it was on ebay first, then the purchaser traded it out to a few people... Forget it.
Thank you! Will have to get that from What.

 
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Old 06-19-2014, 03:25 PM   #56
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yeah, i believe adore demos originated from ebay. the cd-rs must be copies from the ebay cd.
http://forums.netphoria.org/showthread.php?t=125607
(also check out the amsp links.)

 
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Old 06-19-2014, 03:29 PM   #57
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Does anyone have the following?:
Reel Time Sessions Tree CDs (containing Reel Time Sessions, and original MCIS Demos III higher gen release)
Triple Tree CDs (containing Gravity Demos, and Friends and Enemies of Modern Music)
i believe i do.

 
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Old 06-19-2014, 04:33 PM   #58
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yeah, i believe adore demos originated from ebay. the cd-rs must be copies from the ebay cd.
http://forums.netphoria.org/showthread.php?t=125607
(also check out the amsp links.)
Haha. That banter.

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i believe i do.
Fresh rips with log files would be great.

 
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Old 06-19-2014, 05:23 PM   #59
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There is some good discussion on the various versions of different demos floating around in this thread: http://forums.netphoria.org/showthre...t=55556&page=4

Information on the Sequence IV (scroll down): http://forums.netphoria.org/showthread.php?t=167676
Pmack says it comes from Courtney Love. It seems he has a copy without an NR too.
http://forums.netphoria.org/showpost...80&postcount=9

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Old 06-20-2014, 01:50 AM   #60
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Fresh rips with log files would be great.
ah, wait, no. i don't have the cds. i have the shn files that were shared on the hub and stuff.

 
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