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07-21-2009, 03:33 PM | #61 |
Saturday Night Goth
Location: POLLOS
Posts: 9,207
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here's an idea, let's withdraw our troops and military bases from the 150+ countries around the world and maybe we can use some of that money to treat people...!
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07-21-2009, 03:36 PM | #62 |
Apocalyptic Poster
Location: catland
Posts: 1,250
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07-21-2009, 03:36 PM | #63 |
The Man of Tomorrow
Posts: 26,965
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del
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07-21-2009, 04:26 PM | #64 | |
Minion of Satan
Location: Arkansas
Posts: 7,240
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07-21-2009, 04:33 PM | #65 |
ghost
Location: @SactoMacto
Posts: 12,201
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most people seem to overestimate the quality of their own private insurance and underestimate the quality of the public options
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07-21-2009, 06:03 PM | #66 |
The Man of Tomorrow
Posts: 26,965
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what happens to them now? why would that change? Its in their best interest to offer the car, to hire the best people, right? So if in a down economy it gets taken away, they'd be covered by the bus they help pay for, when the economy rebounds, the company would offer benefits again, right? Wouldn't having that option actually be beneficial to companies struggling in a down economy?
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07-21-2009, 07:08 PM | #67 | |
Minion of Satan
Location: Arkansas
Posts: 7,240
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And where is the motivation for companies to pick up the bill on insurance again once the economy rebounds? Right now, the choice is either you pay for your health care, or your employer does. That makes employer-based health care a big perk, one that makes a job with that employer that much more attractive, and thus worth the expense to the employer. But when the choice changes to either your employer pays, or the government does, suddenly it becomes much less of a perk. Why would the employer go to the kind of expense necessary to provide its employees mere expanded coverage if there's a government safety net in place? |
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07-21-2009, 07:33 PM | #68 | ||
The Man of Tomorrow
Posts: 26,965
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The same motivation they have now for offering something to begin with. Recruiting the best. I doubt they take on the expense out of the kindness of their heart. If they could they wouldnt, but the market dictates they offer it, doesnt it? Especially if you believe government care will be mediocre. I just dont see, if the market dictates this behavior, how adding a safety net for those with nothing now, impacts it. Its a perk now, it will be a perk then. But this is just hypothetical, what will be passed wont be anything like this anyway. So basically, |
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07-22-2009, 02:49 AM | #69 |
Master of Karate and Friendship
Location: in your butt
Posts: 72,975
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How about we don't buy bus tickets for felons? Because Obama's plan offers free health coverage for 12,000,000 illegal aliens.
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07-22-2009, 03:36 AM | #70 |
Registered User
Location: In my house.
Posts: 14,464
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07-22-2009, 08:00 AM | #71 |
Apocalyptic Poster
Location: catland
Posts: 1,250
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most countries that have free health care make no distinction based on someone's status in the territory. suggesting that seems inhuman but sadly not surprising.
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07-22-2009, 10:43 AM | #72 | |
Brazilian Blouselord
Location: heavy metal pool party
Posts: 35,781
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This would turn the incentive of an army from peace to war, thus negating entirely the purpose of having a military. A citizen army forces a nation to make decisions based on the knowledge that they are sending their own people into harm's way, and thus their military votes and so do family/friends. A private army would never seek to end conflict, for if they did then they would destroy their business. WOW I can't believe ANYBODY supports the idea of a privatized army. Seriously hundreds and hundreds of years ago people realized this is just a completely horrible idea, and have since proven it wrong with very simple words. Please, I beg you, don't even entertain this possibility anymore. It's plainly and obviously not optimal to privatize a state military. I'd rather maintain an empire and pay the costs of it than be some other country's bitch. |
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07-22-2009, 10:46 AM | #73 |
Brazilian Blouselord
Location: heavy metal pool party
Posts: 35,781
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Please jczeroman return to this thread in the future and try to argue your point that you "advocate ... all the time." It's honestly the political equivalent of somebody arguing about the principles of alchemy in the face of chemistry.
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07-22-2009, 11:34 AM | #74 |
ghost
Location: @SactoMacto
Posts: 12,201
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at least he's philosophically consistant
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07-22-2009, 11:37 AM | #75 | |
ghost
Location: @SactoMacto
Posts: 12,201
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i've read in many places that illegal immigrants will not be covered. Obama: No Health Care For Illegal Immigrants - Political Hotsheet - CBS News |
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07-22-2009, 01:19 PM | #76 |
Apocalyptic Poster
Location: catland
Posts: 1,250
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I don't know what to say anymore. But I am not american.
Even tho I pay for private health care (my own choice) just so I can choose which doctors and hospitals to go once in a while I find myself having to resort to public health care because they are more modern and they don't deny any sort of treatment or test based on the fact they "don't consider it necessary". Of course in general you wouldn't be there in your own beautiful room watching 72 channels on cable, but we take pride on the fact nobody has to die or lose their homes or savings because of illness. we consider that to be a fundamental service - like education or the police. If anything, we want to know that out taxes are going to health care, and that we wouldn't refuse anyone treatment - illegal or not. but I guess it's a fundamental difference in ideals. I'm happy to spend my money on private health care so I won't have to wait a month to get an appointment with a doctor, and I'm also happy to know that my tax money will guarantee that no one, no one will be refused treatment or medication. |
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07-22-2009, 01:27 PM | #77 | |
Minion of Satan
Location: Arkansas
Posts: 7,240
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07-22-2009, 01:32 PM | #78 |
Apocalyptic Poster
Location: catland
Posts: 1,250
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I get really disturbed when people refer to other people as "illegal"
I don't know, I associate that word with acts not people |
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07-22-2009, 01:59 PM | #79 | |
ghost
Location: @SactoMacto
Posts: 12,201
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07-22-2009, 02:51 PM | #80 | |
Master of Karate and Friendship
Location: in your butt
Posts: 72,975
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The Democrats voted down the Heller Amendment which would have specifically disallowed illegals to participate in the health care plans. All that will be required to get coverage is a driver's license. You do not need to prove citizenship to get a driver's license. Obama then essentially said that by the time the plan is active he'd like all of those people to be citizens, thus granting amnesty - that part is in your own article. Spin however you like and pretend this is some right-wing agenda out to get your boy, or look at the facts. Choice is yours. |
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07-22-2009, 03:25 PM | #81 |
Apocalyptic Poster
Location: catland
Posts: 1,250
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I don't know what I'm talking about really but I saw on TV a while ago that in a lot of states non-citizens wouldn't get driver licenses anymore.
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07-22-2009, 04:17 PM | #82 |
Banned
Location: i'm from japan also hollywood
Posts: 57,805
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It's just a mean spirited gesture and a (not so)subtle act of racism to deny services to undocumented aliens. There's no practical reasoning behind it other than that. It doesn't make sense to keep a significant portion of our population sick and uneducated. Personally I would prefer not to have crime/disease infested slums in America. Plus its more expensive in the long run if these people are denied preventative care and we end up footing the bill for more expensive treatments later on to more serious illnesses that they'll eventually use the ER for.
If you don't want undocumented immigrants to leech off the system, get government to provide better border enforcement. But don't try to enforce the borders through our health care system or law enforcement. Doctors and policemen are not our border patrol. |
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07-22-2009, 05:00 PM | #83 |
Ownz
Location: New York
Posts: 620
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Ok so you guys have stated why universal health care will be so terrible, but you do realize there are flaws in our current system, right? You know about the 47 million people in this country who don't have health insurance (and if you want to subtract the 12 million illegal aliens, that's fine, but 35 million is still a tenth of our population). You should know that even if you have private health insurance you still have to deal with the bureaucracy of your insurance company. You still have to get pre-authorization. You still get denied coverage. Doctors fight with insurance companies all the time to get their patients approved for ESSENTIAL procedures. You still have restrictions on which doctors you can see, because not all insurance plans are accepted by all doctors (and why is that? well doctors don't accept certain plans because those companies have a piss poor reputation when it comes to paying for services in full and on time). You still have increasingly high costs for patients in the form of co-payments. If you have a $50 co-pay and you're on 7 medications (and believe me, most elderly people are), you're paying $350 a month out of pocket!
So the question for you guys now is how do you fix the current system? Debaser said it very well several posts ago. People tend to overestimate their private health plan and underestimate the public health plans. I'll take it a step further and say that people who value their private health insurance so highly haven't been severely sick enough. |
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07-22-2009, 05:00 PM | #84 | |
Apocalyptic Poster
Location: catland
Posts: 1,250
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07-22-2009, 05:01 PM | #85 |
Ownz
Location: New York
Posts: 620
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07-22-2009, 05:27 PM | #86 | |
has great self of steam.
Location: SECRET OBAMA FUCKDEN RENDEZVOUS
Posts: 24,305
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Mexican immigration to U.S. off 40 percent, study finds - CNN.com |
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07-22-2009, 05:42 PM | #87 |
Master of Karate and Friendship
Location: in your butt
Posts: 72,975
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07-22-2009, 05:44 PM | #88 | |
Master of Karate and Friendship
Location: in your butt
Posts: 72,975
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Yes, the borders should be enforced, but that doesn't help that you have millions of people who have bankrupted California and are now working on the rest of the country already here. Also can we please not play the race card? Illegals from any country, including Canada and Europe are included. There are a good number of illegals from eastern Europe who would be considered "white" you know. |
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07-22-2009, 05:49 PM | #89 | ||
Registered User
Location: In my house.
Posts: 14,464
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This is for the benefit of others, since I've generally concluded that you are a complete moron when it comes to political philosophy.
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A private army is incentivised to minimise conflict because engaging in conflict destroys resources and capital (both "conquered" resources and capital of the army itself). Any private military that seeks perpetual conflict will quickly be out competed by wiser, more judicious and diplomatic military service providers. Moreover, militaries that do engage in conflict will need to abide by the ethics of those people who hire them and those who will potentially hire them if they expect to do business. This incentivises specificity in targets, minimisation of collateral damage and (preferably) an end to conflict before it beings. Moreover, private militaries can be held accountable because they would not work in collusion with the state monopoly on courts and justice (which, for the same reasons, should also be abolished). Quote:
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07-22-2009, 05:57 PM | #90 | ||
Banned
Location: I believe in the transcendental qualities of friendship.
Posts: 39,439
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there's a reason people think you are a racist and it's sad how you try and pretend like you aren't. |
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