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Old 12-09-2015, 11:11 PM   #151
Forgotten Child
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On the other hand, I agree his lyrics are very weak nowadays, but only because he is trying too hard to be popular again, to get his music on the radio...

He is still able to write good lyrics, lyrics that everybody over their 30s could relate to.


Quote:
young blood
young blood
confuse them all you'll take
give them filigree
just give 'em something cheap
dead love
dead love
a canvas into a heart
from the first of week of being on the promised list
i have
if you're cool with the loss
and not sure of the cost
let's aim the why on dreams
it's down to us
this life grows tired
it's down to us
i can't protect you
Quote:
On an empty corner of your grace
I scratch into my eyes until i fall
a mythic vision i thought pass as age
behind a girl left behind
Behind a girl left behind
our faces need a little sunshine
to go blind
Quote:
What is it that they want with us and all of our abuse
Oh what's the use to protect
Mama, is only you
You're a dancer from the mirrors of
Lie and with restraint
This quiet warmth
I've got my faith restored by the sway of the trees
That sway in time to one more rhyme of my curse
But what it's worth
I count you out and still you count me in
To answer your final bell
Quote:
Time will come suddenly
Change your life faithfully
Ride the wheel what will you see?
Is it me?

The worlds fair/anytime
Anytime you need

Roam the street, the people stare
Thru the gate we walk on air
As we stroll so/debonair
Arm in arm

Lights string out diamond keys
Water washes gentle things
Like washing hung to catch the breeze
From the west

The world's fair...
Quote:
if you can see me/and hear my voice
within these lake bound vines
all down the wabash/rushing past
dead drunk and living time
your stories/are forgotten
your tales unkind
in el-a-noy, el-a-noy
el-a-noy, el-a-noy, el-a-noy
Quote:
i'm a simple man/i have no one
i walk the streets in dusk/to find the air
sometimes i dream i'm alone
asleep on the prairie grass
now at last/now at last
the world will sing for us
now at last/now at last

upon the river dread/i drew forth
the very face of death/for her corpse
i played so all within
would come and watch
a gaze away from her is what i'd bought
so follow me/where i go
to the stuff of sleep/and falling snow
Quote:
you have a funny way of showing it
you have a funny way about
taking all my love and breakin'
don't you know the world is aching, somewhere

you have a funny way about
it's in the sadness in your smile
please try to understand
you'll make an honest man of me yet

i'll take that second chance
as if love was romance
please try to understand
you have a funny way of giving up

 
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Old 12-09-2015, 11:43 PM   #152
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jelly blossom you are being aggressively stupid in this thread, trying to convince everyone that your opinion is aligned with some admitted truth about his lyrics being nonsense. He's literally never said his lyrics are nonsense. He's said that sometimes it's not enough to say it fucking hurts, which is basically why his lyrics are abstract expressions, because the sentiment is more powerful.

Quote:
Then please kindly explain, in detail and line by line, the lyrical meaning of songs such as "Rhinoceros", "Untitled", "Hummer", "Tiberius" and "Doomsday Clock".
come on seriously? are you 14? I'm not even sure where to begin.

 
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Old 12-09-2015, 11:50 PM   #153
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everyone: his lyrics are abstract, that doesn't mean the don't have meaning
jelly blossom: oh yeah well then explain the concrete meaning behind literally every abstract line


.......dude

 
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Old 12-09-2015, 11:51 PM   #154
Jelly Blossom
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Originally Posted by redbreegull View Post
jelly blossom you are being aggressively stupid in this thread, trying to convince everyone that your opinion is aligned with some admitted truth about his lyrics being nonsense. He's literally never said his lyrics are nonsense.
I haven't been aggressive in any way, shape or form so idk where all this hostility is coming from with you.

I know I'm challenging your beliefs here, but I'm hardly the only person here that's saying Corgan's lyrics are bad.

If you don't agree, that's fine. But there's certainly no reason to attack me by saying I'm being 'aggressively stupid' or that I'm 14 or whatever. That's completely uncalled for.

 
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Old 12-09-2015, 11:54 PM   #155
Run To Me
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Hahaha wtf is happening in this thread

I'd disagree, Billy could write a whole album of good lyrics

Not sure this guy called bill cares to, tho

He's bill now, not Billy guys

 
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Old 12-10-2015, 12:03 AM   #156
redbreegull
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Quote:
I haven't been aggressive in any way, shape or form so idk where all this hostility is coming from with you.

I know I'm challenging your beliefs here, but I'm hardly the only person here that's saying Corgan's lyrics are bad.

If you don't agree, that's fine. But there's certainly no reason to attack me by saying I'm being 'aggressively stupid' or that I'm 14 or whatever. That's completely uncalled for.
It is possible to make the argument you are making and do it well. You are not making it well though. You are being inarticulate and saying things that don't even make sense. Challenging someone to decipher the concrete meaning from abstract art is asinine. It's abstract. The power is in the nuance, the suggestion, the fluidity. Your opinion that the lyrics are empty is as valid as any other opinion, but no, you aren't part of the majority in thinking so. And no, Billy Corgan has never said his lyrics are "nonsensical." And no, asking people to pull solid objective meaning from word association meant to trigger feelings and images is not an effective way to make your point.

my problem is not with your opinion but how hard you are pushing a very poor argument. I'm still interested to hear who you do consider to be a good lyricist though.

Last edited by redbreegull : 12-10-2015 at 12:41 AM.

 
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Old 12-10-2015, 12:07 AM   #157
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On the other hand, Billy has said that many of his songs are based around singular memories or images in his head, which he then builds around using that mood and related themes. 1979 was inspired by a memory of sitting at a traffic light in the pouring rain after he came back home from Florida, e.g.

 
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Old 12-10-2015, 01:06 AM   #158
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jelly Blossom View Post
So based on this statement, you'd be perfectly fine if songs featured scat vocals in place of lyrics.



That's my point here, only replace "a little more lyrical meat" with "a lot more lyrical meat".

And for the record, I don't think Billy has the talent to write quality lyrics. A good line or verse here or there, maybe even enough to scrap together a good lyric for a full song occasionally but definitely not for a full album.
No, I mean for me personally; if the lyrics aren't outright cringe-worthy and are delivered in an emotional way that fits the music then it doesn't really matter to me if they're not the most "deep" lyrics or if they're kind of lacking in substance. Take a song like Jump from Van Halen, it's great and fun, but the lyrics aren't any better than the chorus of One and All or the verses of Anti-Hero.

For me, I kinda like a lot of the steam of consciousness lyrics because they allow me to form my own interpretation based on my own experience.

 
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Old 12-10-2015, 01:10 AM   #159
Jelly Blossom
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Quote:
Originally Posted by redbreegull View Post
It is possible to make the argument you are making and do it well. You are not making it well though. You are being inarticulate and saying things that don't even make sense. Challenging someone to decipher the concrete meaning from abstract art is asinine. It's abstract. The power is in the nuance, the suggestion, the fluidity. Your opinion that the lyrics are empty is as valid as any other opinion, but no, you aren't part of the majority in thinking so. And no, Billy Corgan has never said his lyrics are "nonsensical." And no, asking people to pull solid objective meaning from word association meant to trigger feelings and images is not an effective way to make your point.
I'm sorry that you don't understand what I'm saying. That really bums me out. I've been very clear and articulate here and yet you still don't understand and that's depressing to hear that this conversation is outside of your realm of understanding.

 
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Old 12-10-2015, 01:10 AM   #160
fuzzyroes
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jelly Blossom View Post
And for the record, I don't think Billy has the talent to write quality lyrics. A good line or verse here or there, maybe even enough to scrap together a good lyric for a full song occasionally but definitely not for a full album.
Yeah, his lyrics aren't always a big selling point for me, but he always really sold them and made you believe in em even if they were a little ridiculous upon closer investigation.

With that said he definitely has a bunch of songs that are awesome lyrically. Songs like Disarm, 1979, Desire and Tonight Tonight really tug at the heartstrings and are really beautiful.

Even when the lyrics are a little juvenile and kind of "teenage relationsip drama" type of stuff, it's sold with the intensity.

 
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Old 12-10-2015, 01:18 AM   #161
Jelly Blossom
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Quote:
Originally Posted by redbreegull View Post
everyone: his lyrics are abstract, that doesn't mean the don't have meaning
jelly blossom: oh yeah well then explain the concrete meaning behind literally every abstract line


.......dude
Funny how when I ask you to explain a claim you made you simply come back with an exaggeration of what I said and a response of "dude".

Challenging people's beliefs is important in life, and your reaction is completely understandable cuz you've obviously lived your life accepting that nonsensical lyrics are great, and more power to you for feeling that way. I'm glad you feel connected with lyrics that don't make any sense.

I on the other hand crave for something more from lyrics than "Lovahhhhh yer strange!" and "open your eyes to these mustard lies".

It's something that bothers me and I was simply stating that it does. You don't agree and that's ok. I didn't mean to get you fired up about this, but your exaggerations and personal attacks against me are uncalled for.

 
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Old 12-10-2015, 01:21 AM   #162
Jelly Blossom
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fuzzyroes View Post
Yeah, his lyrics aren't always a big selling point for me, but he always really sold them and made you believe in em even if they were a little ridiculous upon closer investigation.

With that said he definitely has a bunch of songs that are awesome lyrically. Songs like Disarm, 1979, Desire and Tonight Tonight really tug at the heartstrings and are really beautiful.

Even when the lyrics are a little juvenile and kind of "teenage relationsip drama" type of stuff, it's sold with the intensity.
I've mentioned before that I think the lyrics to "Drum + Fife" and "Stand Inside Your Love" are pretty good.

There's not a lot in the Billy catalog that stands out to me as being strong lyrically, especially coming from a guy who claims he's a musical genius and such a strong songwriter. I would love nothing more than for him to team up with a talented lyricist and just focus on music. I think Billy's albums would be much stronger and it'd be a surefire sign of musical and creative growth on his part.

 
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Old 12-10-2015, 01:23 AM   #163
Jelly Blossom
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Run To Me View Post
Hahaha wtf is happening in this thread
I know huh, lol.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Run To Me View Post
I'd disagree, Billy could write a whole album of good lyrics
Then why hasn't he?

 
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Old 12-10-2015, 01:25 AM   #164
fuzzyroes
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jelly Blossom View Post
I've mentioned before that I think the lyrics to "Drum + Fife" and "Stand Inside Your Love" are pretty good.

There's not a lot in the Billy catalog that stands out to me as being strong lyrically, especially coming from a guy who claims he's a musical genius and such a strong songwriter. I would love nothing more than for him to team up with a talented lyricist and just focus on music. I think Billy's albums would be much stronger and it'd be a surefire sign of musical and creative growth on his part.
I'd be more keen to agree with you if you're talking about from like Teargarden and on. But a lot of the 90's stuff is abstract in a really cool way. I mean Zero kicks major ass and one could argue that it "doesn't make any sense".

 
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Old 12-10-2015, 01:30 AM   #165
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ok so for the third time, who do you consider to be a good lyricist jelly blossom? specifically who do consider to be a good abstract lyricist?

 
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Old 12-10-2015, 01:30 AM   #166
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Or songs like STRTJ Geek Usa, Soma, TTEOR they all have their own abstract stream of consciousness Corgan style that is completely unique to his writing.

I don't think songs need to be cut and dry and there is a good heft of lyrics that are just kinda "ehhhhhhhhh"

It wasn't until after Zeitgeist that he seemed totally dead inside with his lyrics. Zeitgeist had some lyrical clunkers as well but afterwards it was like he gave up... FOL, GlOW, Superchrist, Widow, Astral Planes, Spangled, Are You With Us Or Against Us, Quasar, Anti-Hero, Monuments ETC

 
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Old 12-10-2015, 01:30 AM   #167
Jelly Blossom
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fuzzyroes View Post
I'd be more keen to agree with you if you're talking about from like Teargarden and on. But a lot of the 90's stuff is abstract in a really cool way. I mean Zero kicks major ass and one could argue that it "doesn't make any sense".
That's what I was saying earlier, how can you argue that abstract is ok from the 90s but not ok from Teargarden on? Why the double standard?

On top of it, that argument only points out the exact thing I'm saying in regards to the lack of growth shown by Billy as a songwriter. He wonders why what worked in the 90s isn't working now and maybe it's because people are smarter now and want songs with substance and meaning and not songs with lyrical gibberish that he vomited out in the back room of studio before he went to record the vocals.

 
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Old 12-10-2015, 01:35 AM   #168
Jelly Blossom
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Originally Posted by redbreegull View Post
ok so for the third time, who do you consider to be a good lyricist jelly blossom? specifically who do consider to be a good abstract lyricist?
I don't believe that abstract lyrics are good.

And I gave a few examples of lyricists who I thought were good in post #145 of this very thread.

http://forums.netphoria.org/showpost...&postcount=145

Wish you'd get with the program, lol.

 
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Old 12-10-2015, 03:16 AM   #169
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Originally Posted by Forgotten Child View Post
Oh my god, open your eyes to these mustard lies!
dude,
"open your eyes, to these must I lie"

and it's "planned a show, trees and balloons"

billy was 100% trolling when someone asked him "mustard lies" "panda show"?

 
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Old 12-10-2015, 03:18 AM   #170
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jelly Blossom View Post
I don't believe that abstract lyrics are good.
there we go

 
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Old 12-10-2015, 03:19 AM   #171
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Courtney Love ok bye

 
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Old 12-10-2015, 03:26 AM   #172
Jelly Blossom
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Originally Posted by redbreegull View Post
Courtney Love ok bye
Sweet! You were doing nothing but bringing this conversation down anyways with your inability to follow the program.

 
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Old 12-10-2015, 03:29 AM   #173
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Originally Posted by T&T View Post
dude,
"open your eyes, to these must I lie"

and it's "planned a show, trees and balloons"

billy was 100% trolling when someone asked him "mustard lies" "panda show"?
Not according to his interview with Matt Pinhead.

@ ~ 39:03 --- Open your eyes to these mustard lies.


 
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Old 12-10-2015, 03:47 AM   #174
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it's 'open your eyes to these mustard lies' according to BC. IIRC he even talks about it in the Gish deluxe edition booklet.

 
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Old 12-10-2015, 10:59 AM   #175
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Originally Posted by Jelly Blossom View Post
Don't get me wrong, there are exceptions from time to time. I've personally stated that "Drum + Fife" is the only redeeming lyric on MTAE, and I've always liked "Stand Inside Your Love". But much of the rest of his lyrics are for the most part just gibberish.
I'd be interested in hearing you explain, in detail and line by line, the lyrical meaning of either "Drum + Fife" or "Stand Inside Your Love."

I've always wondered what those songs mean.

 
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Old 12-10-2015, 11:56 AM   #176
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Quote:
The useless drag of another day
The endless drags of a death rock boy
Mascara sure and lipstick lost
Glitter burned by restless thoughts of being forgotten
And in your sad machines
You'll forever stay
Desperate and displeased-with whoever you are
And you're a star
Somwhere-he pulls his hair down-over a frowning smile
A hidden diamond you cannot find
A secret star that cannot shine over to you
May the king of gloom, be forever doomed
And in your sad machines
You'll forever stay
Burning up in speed
Lost inside the dreams, of teen machines
The useless drags, the empty days
The lonely towers of long mistakes
To forgotten faces and faded loves
Sitting still was never enough
And if you're giving in, then you're giving up
Cause in your sad machines
You'll forever stay
Burning up in speed
Lost inside the dreams, of teen machines
----------------------------------------------------------
Quote:
Dorian, Dorian
What have you done?
Dorian
As you run, a setting sun
Dorian
A setting sun, it finds you

Is it always as you want?
Is it always as you thought?
Dorian

What have you done?
Dorian
Oh my child, when our number's up and done
It's what they taught
Dorian
As you run, a setting sun
Dorian
A fleeting dream, it finds you

Is it always as you thought?
Is it always as you want?
Dorian
Some of you seriously need to fuck off. How you cannot see any lyrical genious in Here Is No Why, I will never know.

 
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Old 12-10-2015, 12:20 PM   #177
Jelly Blossom
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Originally Posted by jparker800 View Post
I'd be interested in hearing you explain, in detail and line by line, the lyrical meaning of either "Drum + Fife" or "Stand Inside Your Love."

I've always wondered what those songs mean.
From off the top of my head, "Drum + Fife" comes across as a metaphor for sticking to your beliefs, while "Stand Inside Your Love" has always struck me as is the wanting to be center of someone's world.

I'm not definitely saying that that's what those songs are about, just that there's enough substance there for the listener to at least formulate an idea of some sort.

Much better than say, "Blank page is all the rage" or "Your love is strange".

 
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Old 12-10-2015, 12:24 PM   #178
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Wait a minute, are some of you questioning the lyrical integrity of the masterpiece "MTAE"?

Sounds like you need to be removed from the P+C red border club.

MR CORGAN WILL SEE YOU NOW

 
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Old 12-10-2015, 12:40 PM   #179
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ahm so alone
ahm so alone, i can't get boned

 
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Old 12-10-2015, 12:48 PM   #180
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Originally Posted by Jelly Blossom View Post
Much better than say, "Blank page is all the rage"
what is wrong lately with everyone thinking he actually wrote that?

 
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