How does Billy compare to Josh Homme as a guitarist?

[selection7]

Originally Posted by Dogfighter28

Billy is very tasteful and he excels at songcraft when it comes to guitar. However, he sticks mainly to standard pentatonic structures and he's not really advancing the instrument or anything. I think he gets a LITTLE too much credit from SP fans and a LITTLE not enough credit from the rest of everyone..

Bill doing non-pentatonic makes me think of that Jesus, I vid...6:15 into it:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sfcjR2A4PzQ
I have no idea what he's playing, btw.

Also, one thing that separates him is his playing doesn't sound bluesy in general, it sounds more modern, even though he probably favors a blues pentatonic. When I solo it just sounds like I'm stuck in 1973.
Another advantage Billy has is that same creative spark that makes him an elite songwriter also benefits his technical playing. I think in the preface to the MCIS tab book he mentions having to fight the urge to become one of those guitar players that only other guitar players care about.

[???]

ok obviously you guys know nothing about guitar.

billy plays the most soulful guitar solos i've ever heard, but i feel that his rhythm playing is for the most part uninteresting. his overall style is very traditional, very 70s. simplistic, mostly chord-based guitar riffs with intricate call-and-response lead/solos over the top. as more of a rhythm/lead hybrid player myself, i find pumpkins songs tediously easy to play and i generally find more inspiration listening to guitarists such as josh homme, matt bellamy, jack white to name a few popular current examples, as well as jeff buckley, johnny marr, jonny greenwood. i feel that soloing is somewhat passe and writing interesting riffs is a far more worthy enterprise. i certainly wish i could shred like billy (and there are three secrets to effectively emulating his style) but i have little need to. on the one hand, billy is probably a far greater rhythm player than he lets on (didn't he once say "i could write great riffs all day, but sometimes they don't make for the best songs"?) so i can understand why he plays the way he does. but on the other hand, the other guitarists i mentioned never sacrified song quality by dumbing down their guitar playing, and neither do i. so maybe billy is really just a product of his primary influences and doesn't aspire to play any other way.

in summary, i feel he is the most underrated player of guitar solos (is that the same thing as a "guitar soloist"?) and his playing pretty much defines "alternative" because he generally eschews traditional pentatonic scales and mixes them up with others (myxolydian etc). and he is, to me, one of the greatest producers of the guitar and has contributed significantly to the evolution of the way guitar is recorded. but in terms of dynamic rhythm/lead playing, he is nothing compared to homme and the other players i mentioned.

-drops mic-

i'm drunk btw

[supermaid]

your greatest fan,

gary guitar

[MyOneAndOnly]

stupid thread gets stupider

[stumpycat]

I actually agree with Isle's view on Billy's playing. His rhythm and structure is often boringly standard by comparison, but his leads are far more creative and seldom sound like some standard paint-by-numbers blues variants (nor do they usually sound like wanky Van Halen shredding.) I think that Billy could utilize more interesting, non-standard riffing if he wanted to do so, but it is as though he's afraid that it will make for a less than pleasing and catchy hook and is inappropriate to base a "proper" song structure around. (Trotsky would probably call it a "dinosaur mentality".) Isn't that what Pistachio Medley is really all about - interesting less conventional riffs that Billy never bothered to base a proper song around?

[Morlock]

Billy Corgan, when he is at his peak, is incredible and hard to top by other rock guitarists. Josh Homme however is almost at peak all the time, and that shouldn't be underestimated. From Songs for the Deaf on he really established himself as a world class guitarist. super-bluesy, yes, but also very passionate, soulful, kickass and cool. Pure rock'n'roll.

[Catherine Wheel]

More love for Josh. Awesome.

Although I would say that even before Songs For The Deaf he was a world class guitarist. Some of his best guitar solos are from QOTSA's early years (How To Handle A Rope, The Bronze) Their most ambitious material in general is from their early years. (You Can't Quit Me Baby, Better Living Through Chemistry, Infinity)

By the time QOTSA had become successful Josh's guitar solos were much less inspired and interesting.

[Ball Sack Face]

who gives a shit

[stumpycat]

Originally Posted by Catherine Wheel

More love for Josh. Awesome.


By the time QOTSA had become successful Josh's guitar solos were much less inspired and interesting.

But isn't that basically what always happens?

[Trotskilicious]

Originally Posted by redbreegull

Yeah, Billy is one of the most underrated guitarists.

except in his own mind

[Trotskilicious]

that's why he kind of deserves being underrated honestly

[RenewRevive]

Originally Posted by redbreegull

Billy's lead guitar work isn't really any less awe-inspiring now than in 1993. Maybe you disagree, but I really think that despite the bad songs and bad production, he's just a motherfucker on the guitar. The solo on Starla from this tour floors me as much as any of his lead work in the past. If anything, he kind of lost his way in boring metal/shred lead work over the past few years but got his guitar focus back together for this tour.

his playing on the current tour is surprisingly great.

[Phoenix Down]

Originally Posted by houseofglass11

Brent Hinds (who?)

That comment must make you pretty embarrassed now.

[null123]

Josh Homme is hott

[houseofglass11]

Nope, I'm not a Mastodon fan.

Also, this thread was necro-bumped, but Billy is still 10x the guitarist that Josh Homme is.

[Funbags]

Originally Posted by selection7

Also, one thing that separates him is his playing doesn't sound bluesy in general, it sounds more modern, even though he probably favors a blues pentatonic. When I solo it just sounds like I'm stuck in 1973.

The secret-sauce in the psychedelic Pumpkins sound is the Mixolydian mode. The riff from Starla is literally running up a Mixolydian scale note for note, for example.

Billy's psychedelic solos also contain a mix of Mixolydian and Phrygian Dominant licks (the snake charmer bits he often throws in), which he probably picked up from being a big Richie Blackmore/Uli Jon Roth fan.

[Phoenix Down]

Originally Posted by houseofglass11

Nope, I'm not a Mastodon fan.

I'm pretty sure it's possible to acknowledge good guitarists without being a fan. And Brent Hinds certainly has crazy shredding skills, I'd rate him higher as Homme.
Maybe you wanna check out their latest album, though. It's more of a hard rock record really.

And regarding Homme: I love QOTSA but I think Kyuss is where it's at if we talk guitar here.

[Elphenor]

Kyusssss

Awww Yeahhh

[brutechinasky]

james is better than both

[Elphenor]

Corgan fucking destroys Homme btw and I like QOTSA

Some of the solos on Gish where Corgan was less restrained than he would be on SD and MCIS are monstrous

[The exploding boy]

All i know is

Number of QOTSA records ever owned: 0

Number of SP records ever owned: 8


So i'll give that one to Bolly....

[Trotskilicious]

Originally Posted by ???

ok obviously you guys know nothing about guitar.

billy plays the most soulful guitar solos i've ever heard, but i feel that his rhythm playing is for the most part uninteresting. his overall style is very traditional, very 70s. simplistic, mostly chord-based guitar riffs with intricate call-and-response lead/solos over the top. as more of a rhythm/lead hybrid player myself, i find pumpkins songs tediously easy to play and i generally find more inspiration listening to guitarists such as josh homme, matt bellamy, jack white to name a few popular current examples, as well as jeff buckley, johnny marr, jonny greenwood. i feel that soloing is somewhat passe and writing interesting riffs is a far more worthy enterprise. i certainly wish i could shred like billy (and there are three secrets to effectively emulating his style) but i have little need to. on the one hand, billy is probably a far greater rhythm player than he lets on (didn't he once say "i could write great riffs all day, but sometimes they don't make for the best songs"?) so i can understand why he plays the way he does. but on the other hand, the other guitarists i mentioned never sacrified song quality by dumbing down their guitar playing, and neither do i. so maybe billy is really just a product of his primary influences and doesn't aspire to play any other way.

in summary, i feel he is the most underrated player of guitar solos (is that the same thing as a "guitar soloist"?) and his playing pretty much defines "alternative" because he generally eschews traditional pentatonic scales and mixes them up with others (myxolydian etc). and he is, to me, one of the greatest producers of the guitar and has contributed significantly to the evolution of the way guitar is recorded. but in terms of dynamic rhythm/lead playing, he is nothing compared to homme and the other players i mentioned.

-drops mic-

i'm drunk btw

hooray it's isle

[Trotskilicious]

oh, jesus this is 3 years old how embarassing

and josh homme is hotttt i think him & brody are the hotttttest rock couple by far

[slunken]

one of my favorite parts about netphoria lately is that almost no matter what thread i click on, the top post that i see first is someone defending some other band

breaking news: smashing pumpkins attract obsessive nerd status fans

[dreams of glass]

Originally Posted by Funbags

The secret-sauce in the psychedelic Pumpkins sound is the Mixolydian mode. The riff from Starla is literally running up a Mixolydian scale note for note, for example.

Billy's psychedelic solos also contain a mix of Mixolydian and Phrygian Dominant licks (the snake charmer bits he often throws in), which he probably picked up from being a big Richie Blackmore/Uli Jon Roth fan.

When I was just starting out playing guitar, and I didn't know too much theory, I would sit and try to replicate the "Pumpkins sound", just by ear.

Years later, after learning theory, I realized that I was pretty much gravitating towards A Mixolydian (aka D major) to capture that sound.