Fuzzyroes VS. FoolofaTook: CHOOSE YOUR FACTION

[FlamingGlobes]

Originally Posted by LaBelle

Advocating for sexual harrassers, dehumanizing trans people and justifying pedophilia because "different times, man" does not make a flawed human character.

It in fact makes a bad person.

I strongly disagree with this viewpoint and I feel like this is a BIG part of why our culture is coming undone (well, at least here in America).

Having a bad opinion does not a bad person make. I think most rational, mature adults can look for nuance in someone like fuzzy and realize that although he says and does a lot of dumb shit, he's not a complete lost cause. We can work with someone like fuzzy because he has actually demonstrated he has a heart. Other people, not so much.

Nowadays, it's one side or the other and if you're not on my team, well, fuck you. Personally, I work with and have regular customers who voted for Trump and guess what? They're not all bigoted dumpster fires in human form. The whole "you believe differently than me, you're garbage" mentality is really childish and goes nowhere.

This isn't necessarily directed at you specifically, but it's an attitude I'm seeing more and more (here and in real life) and it really bothers me.

fuzzy has said dumb shit, really distasteful and hurtful stuff. But I don't believe for one second that he intends to dehumanize anyone. Save the venom for those that *really* do.

[FoolofaTook]

You are right Flaming Globes. I am one of the ppl who treats fuzzy the worst and I am constantly getting another chance. If others can give me grace why can't I treat him the same way.

The truth is I am a low piece of shit and I attack him to make myself feel better. That is fucked up. Yeah he says stuff that pisses me off and is totally wrong but he is suffering. How is branding him or shunning him or putting him down helping him to change?

[ilikeplanets]

you catch more flies with honey than with vinegar. if you want to teach someone why their viewpoint is harmful or even dangerous, shouting FUCK YOU DUMB ASS GO TO HELL YOU TERRIBLE PERSON isn't going to make them want to listen, but will put them on the defensive and likely make them think they are correct simply because people who have the opposite opinions are treating them like shit.

[FlamingGlobes]

Well, on the other hand, I think a little of the suffering might be good for him. It might actually cause some self-reflection on his part and he might start adjusting his worldview as a result. Yes, I know, blah blah blah. Fuck fuzzy he sucks you don't understand.

My only point was not to just drop it to the level of "fuzzy is bad people" because I think if you actually read what he writes, you can clearly see he's not a bad person, just horribly misguided.

[FlamingGlobes]

Originally Posted by ilikeplanets

you catch more flies with honey than with vinegar. if you want to teach someone why their viewpoint is harmful or even dangerous, shouting FUCK YOU DUMB ASS GO TO HELL YOU TERRIBLE PERSON isn't going to make them want to listen, but will put them on the defensive and likely make them think they are correct simply because people who have the opposite opinions are treating them like shit.

Said it better than I did.

[ilikeplanets]

i've held that philosophy for a while

it's not always easy to practice when someone hurts your feelers, though. but it's the best way for humans to learn together, ime.

[buzzard]

When has fuzzy demonstrated that he has a heart, though?

Distancing himself from the more disgusting views he's expressed by claiming to have been drinking or by describing himself as flawed has always struck me as an entirely self-serving bid to move on from the state of outrage that's presumably harmful to his boarding experience in those moments.

[FlamingGlobes]

Originally Posted by buzzard

When has fuzzy demonstrated that he has a heart, though?

Distancing himself from the more disgusting views he's expressed by claiming to have been drinking or by describing himself as flawed has always struck me as an entirely self-serving bid to move on from the state of outrage that's presumably harmful to his boarding experience in those moments.

By trying to apologize for his transgressions in spite of tripping over himself just about every time.

By not being hostile towards (most of) those who make fun of him.

By being a perfectly decent presence when not drunk and/or talking politics.

---

I'm not excusing or hand-waving his shitty opinions away, or at least that's not the intention. I don't consider "I was drunk" a valid excuse in any scenario. BUT, considering most everyone here has said and done a lot of shit they are ashamed of, I'd hope that the least we could do is draw a line somewhere between criticism and relentless bullying.

I say as someone who voted for Took. But only because his momma so fine.

[ilikeplanets]

Originally Posted by buzzard

When has fuzzy demonstrated that he has a heart, though?

Distancing himself from the more disgusting views he's expressed by claiming to have been drinking or by describing himself as flawed has always struck me as an entirely self-serving bid to move on from the state of outrage that's presumably harmful to his boarding experience in those moments.

he often says he isn't racist, sexist etc and definitely gets upset at the wanton name calling that always comes his way. and he's quick to defend anyone he sees as being bullied, regardless of their beliefs (me included and i'm about as left leaning as an American comes). plus he's always out to make amends with many of the people he knows dislike him. that's not a heartless trait. he doesn't want to be bigoted, i just don't think he knows why what he says is harmful. but i am a naive idealist so i could be wrong.

[buzzard]

Again, I see these examples as entirely self-serving on his part.

[FlamingGlobes]

You see things differently than I/we do, clearly.

[FlamingGlobes]

I have to imagine being at the bottom of this particular barrel might make one grasp for flimsy excuses. Just a thought.

[buzzard]

It's one thing to feel bad for somebody that is desperate to fit in, but another entirely to imagine that their attempts at doing so necessarily imbue them with an ultimately innocent and/or defensible character.

You'll probably have an easier time of it now that Poots and The Omega Concern are no longer around to trade high-fives over topics such as the inherent evils of Islam, though. He's running out of asses to kiss and is ready to brown his nose exclusively in the sockets you approve of.

[FlamingGlobes]

Actually, I'd find the fact that the mods have dispensed with those fucks and fuzzy is still here to speak volumes about the difference between him and them.

[FlamingGlobes]

Also, I never made it a habit to fall into any of Poots' traps. All he wanted was a rise out of people and boy, did he get it.

[FlamingGlobes]

Originally Posted by buzzard

It's one thing to feel bad for somebody that is desperate to fit in, but another entirely to imagine that their attempts at doing so necessarily imbue them with an ultimately innocent and/or defensible character.

That's not really what I'm driving at. I'm basing my opinion of fuzzy's character solely on my own interactions with him, as well as my observations.

I remember him getting a lot of undue shit before I signed up and started posting. And that was wayyy before he became a Trumpster.

[buzzard]

I feel like my point is flying under your radar.

If a few of us created alternate accounts with the common theme of neo-Nazism, just to provide an extreme example, what I'm saying is that he may very well find in us a brand new crew of buddies with whom to practice his particular brand of desperate sycophancy. When those neo-Nazi accounts were removed, he'd go right back to giving our regular accounts some betting advice. Does that help?

P.S. Roy Moore.

[pavementtune]

Originally Posted by FlamingGlobes

I strongly disagree with this viewpoint and I feel like this is a BIG part of why our culture is coming undone (well, at least here in America).

yea, calling someone who says "I support white supremacy and fascism" a bad person is a BIG part of why "our" culture is coming undone...

it would be so much nicer if we could just not give someone shit for what they actually say and advocate for. we, the straight white dudes would have such a chill time without this constant bickering just because someone believes the most horrendous shit and repeats that shit constantly.

must be really nice if that's all that's coming undone of your culture.

[run2pee]

F'lobs, I'm curious

On a scale of 1 to 10 how much does it hurt you in your heart that we have a president that naked/gleefully dehumanizes women and minorities in his actions, words, and policies?

[MarquisInSpades]

Would you have preferred Hillary?

[reprise85]

well fucking obviously

[fuzzyroes]

Originally Posted by pavementtune

News flash, based on non-alternative facts: these two stances are an either/or situation. You can't stand by both.

Bannons basically a libertarian, which doesn't necessarily stop a person from leaning liberal on certain issues.

[fuzzyroes]

Originally Posted by Run To Me

Fuzzy for the love of God please try and understand that people are legitimately in pain watching what is happening to our country under this president. To come here and see you consistently root for something so mean/ugly/tragic really harshes my netpho mellow, and so took it is

I think you're buying into a lot of the sensationalism that the media is pedaling. If you look at a guy like Ron Paul who was largely beloved and Donald Trump, there really is a ton of the same values and stances. Whether Trump will be able to navigate in the swamp is another entirely different situation, and really, it's not looking good.

[fuzzyroes]

Originally Posted by FoolofaTook

I knew it: slunken voted for fuzzy. ha!

Come on Labelle you can do it too. Man-up yo!

Hell yeah! One Slunken votes gotta be worth at least 3 of RBG's. Can we form some sort of electoral college?

[fuzzyroes]

I don't wanna brown nose or draw attention to compliments but I just wanted to note that I appreciate the kind words from Slunk, Globes, and ILP and anyone else I may have missed.

Thanks guys!

[fuzzyroes]

For what it's worth, a large portion of my support for Trump is in the belief that the current ruling class needs to be restructured in a big way and Trump ran on that... It seems like they're trying to take him down with all the impeachment talks that are starting to bubble up and this BS collusion nonsense. So in many ways it's a grass roots candidate being taken down by the ruling elite. So my support for Trump is a lot deeper than just "liking" his narrow view on Muslims or whatever else might cause a controversy.

[fuzzyroes]

Originally Posted by MarquisInSpades

Would you have preferred Hillary?

Hell no, and the media doesn't wanna mention this out here in North America, but that's a BIG reason why a big portion of the 65 million people voted for Trump.

[pavementtune]

Originally Posted by fuzzyroes

So my support for Trump is a lot deeper than just "liking" his narrow view on Muslims or whatever else might cause a controversy.

thanks for pointing that out, maybe also the last of the "good heart" farts finally gets it just how deep your support for our beloved grabembythepussytravelbanalsofuckmuslimsaltogether fasco fuck goes, you little brown shirt. "cause a controversy" like deportation raids or hell denying climate change, nevermind just how many cases for sexual harassment? nevermind single handedly fucking over palestine with one stupid vomit out of his mouth. "cause a controversy." I'd like to cause a controversy with your fucking face.

[Elphenor]

Originally Posted by fuzzyroes

For what it's worth, a large portion of my support for Trump is in the belief that the current ruling class needs to be restructured in a big way and Trump ran on that... It seems like they're trying to take him down with all the impeachment talks that are starting to bubble up and this BS collusion nonsense. So in many ways it's a grass roots candidate being taken down by the ruling elite. So my support for Trump is a lot deeper than just "liking" his narrow view on Muslims or whatever else might cause a controversy.

he's part of the ruling class

he has supported all policies beneficial to the ruling class exactly as anyone with half a brain expected

[fuzzyroes]

It's still only been 1 year. I think a lot of the time people forget that.