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Old 08-11-2014, 10:25 AM   #61
Bread Regal
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Good point. i didn't consider the fact that he might be braking which would also cause loss of traction, depending on the distribution of braking force.

 
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Old 08-11-2014, 12:08 PM   #62
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Originally Posted by Bread Regal View Post
A car doesn't just fishtail due to turning. basic physics tells us that if both wheels have the same linear velocity while turning, the whole car will slide, not just the back. That's why its advisable to let off the throttle when you start hydroplaning this is the case regardless of the material the track is made of and the distribution of mass in the vehicle.

Fishtailing occurs when the linear velocity of the rear wheels is greater than that of the front wheels, which can only happen if an additional force is applied. This is determined by the differences in static and kinetic friction. now on a Dirt track, there might be more of a continuous relationship between the two coefficients rather than two discrete values like you'd see on asphalt. but there WAS a difference. there's no doubt he opened the throttle coming out of the turn.

Whether its alright to drive like that under a caution flag, or if it indicates malicious intent, I don't know. But he was delivering an accelerating force to the wheels.
I'm not going to be rude to you all, because that's exactly it more or less- the rear end bucks before he hits Ward. The rear wheels are propelling the car. GOOGLE OVERSTEER. WATCH A VIDEO WVERYBODY. Watch rally cars in the dirt, watch F1/NASCAR/motoGP/DTM/whatever you want, but you'll see why the wheels that are moving the car break loose first.

As someone who's been racing RWD cars for years now, I can say enough throttle on any surface will break loose your drive wheels. Even an AWD car will drift under throttle.

I mean have you heard of drifting? Where the rear of the car slides all around but the front grips? Guess how that works. RWD+throttle.

 
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Old 08-11-2014, 12:16 PM   #63
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Originally Posted by Bread Regal View Post
Good point. i didn't consider the fact that he might be braking which would also cause loss of traction, depending on the distribution of braking force.
Braking would shift weight on to the front wheels, and obviously off the back. This can cause one of two things. Since you know the equation for friction depends on downward force, you can derive that more weight on the front adds traction, less weight on the back loses traction. The lighter rear can swing around under braking. It's called trail braking and lots of people use it to rotate a car into a corner for a better mid-corner line and hopefully with a little additional entry speed.

The other thing that can happen is the car can understeer while turning and braking hard. Even though you are pressing down on the front wheels due to the weight redistributing under braking, keep in mind the front wheels are now being receiving an additional vectored force. They have to turn AND accelerate the car backwards due to the friction between the pads and rotors.

Under ether of these cases, the car would not move FASTER when in a corner. It'd slow down. It'd curl the rear around or it would "push" the nose straight, but has no ability to gain speed. It shoots over Ward under the throttle blip.

 
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Old 08-11-2014, 12:42 PM   #64
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Bro, do you even drift?

.

 
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Old 08-11-2014, 02:45 PM   #65
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4 rill get on my level #ultimatedriftswag

 
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Old 08-11-2014, 02:52 PM   #66
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Edit: never mind, didn't see there was a 2nd page.

 
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Old 08-12-2014, 07:30 AM   #67
yo soy el mejor
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Old 08-12-2014, 01:53 PM   #68
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http://nypost.com/2014/08/12/racer-s...was-avoidable/

Quote:
Paul Kinney — who was also competing when Stewart's car struck driver Kevin Ward Jr. on a dirt track in Canandaigua Saturday — said he clearly saw Ward on the track and managed to dodge him himself.

"I seen Kevin clear as day. Nobody else ran into him, either," he told NBC News, noting he was close enough to see Ward's face after the 20-year-old stepped out of his car, angrily gesturing at Stewart.
As Stewart raced by, he appeared to hit the throttle, fishtailing and striking Ward.

Stewart, 43, hasn't been criminally charged in Ward's death, but TV legal analyst Rob Becker said it's likely he will be.

"What happens when you hit that throttle is the car is going to move to the right . . . Stewart had to know that if he hit the throttle with a man standing on the dirt to his right, there was a good chance the car would hit him, which means there's a good chance he could be killed," Becker said Fox Sports 1.
I'm hoping now we can accept that yes Tony hit the throttle and yes Tony could see Ward as he approached him.

 
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Old 08-12-2014, 02:15 PM   #69
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i want to start killing people too. i guess that's my main takeaway from this

 
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Old 08-12-2014, 02:17 PM   #70
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Quote:
Originally Posted by duovamp View Post
http://nypost.com/2014/08/12/racer-s...was-avoidable/



I'm hoping now we can accept that yes Tony hit the throttle and yes Tony could see Ward as he approached him.
God will take care of the judgement, thanks.

 
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Old 08-12-2014, 02:43 PM   #71
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Quote:
Originally Posted by duovamp View Post
http://nypost.com/2014/08/12/racer-s...was-avoidable/



I'm hoping now we can accept that yes Tony hit the throttle and yes Tony could see Ward as he approached him.
I saw Jesus walking on the river today. No one else did but I did so they're wrong.

But yes let's use the Post as a end-all decorative source for this accident. Good idea.

 
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Old 08-12-2014, 02:58 PM   #72
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Imagine how hard it would've been to see Ward if he were black though.

 
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Old 08-12-2014, 03:02 PM   #73
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He was wearing a black suit and black helmet.

 
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Old 08-12-2014, 03:18 PM   #74
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Aside from the bright orange and white all over it.

 
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Old 08-12-2014, 03:24 PM   #75
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It's ridiculous how well we can all see him in a cell phone video, yet in person a professional racing driver suddenly loses the ability to see anything while on a race track.

 
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Old 08-12-2014, 03:27 PM   #76
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Oh and another driver who was there saw him "plain as day."

 
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Old 08-12-2014, 03:44 PM   #77
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He died doing what he loved. Gettin' a car to the ol' kisser.

 
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Old 08-12-2014, 03:45 PM   #78
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you don't know what Stewart's line of sight looked like.

that guy risked his life walking out into the middle of the track like that. a fucking stupid move. even under a caution flag

ultimately, though, it's just another redneck. there are millions more

 
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Old 08-12-2014, 03:46 PM   #79
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a redneck killed another redneck and some redneck recorded it on a shitty redneck phone

 
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Old 08-12-2014, 03:58 PM   #80
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Question that may or may not have been answered: why does the video even exist in the first place?

 
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Old 08-12-2014, 03:59 PM   #81
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Originally Posted by scottytheoneand View Post
you don't know what Stewart's line of sight looked like.

that guy risked his life walking out into the middle of the track like that. a fucking stupid move. even under a caution flag

ultimately, though, it's just another redneck. there are millions more
Unfortunately, I agree. Contributory negligence, though, is not a defense to homicide.

Even if he was just trying to "scare" the dumb redneck, he's still going down for depraved indifference to human life. That's murder.

Bottom line, though: the "truth" is only known by one person and there's no way Tony Stewart admits ANYTHING.

 
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Old 08-12-2014, 04:07 PM   #82
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Duo, have you ever driven a sprint car on a dirt track?

 
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Old 08-12-2014, 04:07 PM   #83
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mpp View Post
Question that may or may not have been answered: why does the video even exist in the first place?
Because some guy took it? I don't think I understand the question.

 
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Old 08-12-2014, 04:14 PM   #84
MyOneAndOnly
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my cousin builds and races sprint cars. They're scary machines. on dirt tracks visibility at track level can be terrible because of the exhaust, dust and gravel getting kicked by by the cars.

 
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Old 08-12-2014, 07:10 PM   #85
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Let's hear from people actually on the track and in the cars that know what they are talking about.

Quote:
"From what I saw, Tony did everything in his power to turn down away from Kevin to avoid him," said sprint car driver Cory Sparks.

Sparks was just a few cars behind Stewart during Saturday's race. He said videos that have been posted online do not give an accurate picture of what happened.

"People say that they heard the engine rev up and he gassed it. In a sprint car, the only way to steer is you steer with the rear wheels as much as you do the steering wheel. In my opinion, what he did was he gassed it to turn down away from him," said Sparks.

Sparks also said drivers are very limited with the amount they can see out of the right side of the car.

"Kevin was wearing all-black. A black fire suit, a black helmet, which in normal situations isn't a big deal, they are to go with the colors of your car. It was tragic accident and a mistake was made," said Sparks.
http://rochester.twcnews.com/content....prKbF3A3.dpuf

And here is the 45's crew member saying Ward wasn't easily seen. 45 was directly in front of Stewart.

https://mobile.twitter.com/DirtTrack...064706/photo/1

I'll take a driver and a crew member of the guy directly in front of Stewart at their word and over a video shot from across a track.

 
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Old 08-12-2014, 07:35 PM   #86
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Why, they are biased as fuck and eyewitness reports are scientifically proven to be inaccurate more often than not

 
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Old 08-12-2014, 07:49 PM   #87
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Everyone is bias. They are simply stating it's hard as shit to see out of these cars.

 
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Old 08-12-2014, 07:50 PM   #88
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Quote:
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Duo, have you ever driven a sprint car on a dirt track?
If I said yes you'd just argue with me more anyway. Basically you don't want to believe there's any possible way this asshole could ever have a malicious intent on the racetrack:





Quote:
"I'm gonna run over him every chance I got from now until the end of the year. Every chance I got." "I don't give a crap."
Guy's a classic redneck asshole who does this kind of shit to people. He was being a dick and he hurt someone. wtf kind of professional UNDER A CAUTION FLAG drives completely without caution? Where his caution when everybody else was using caution and didn't hit him? How come he had to hit the gas?

Can you answer any of those questions for me?

 
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Old 08-12-2014, 08:05 PM   #89
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nobody thinks he's not capable of maliciousness. But if you're going to accuse someone of something as incredible as murder you need more than a shitty mobile phone video and you need to carefully consider all the evidence before you jump to conclusions

 
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Old 08-12-2014, 08:27 PM   #90
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just watched the video. that's why you don't run into the middle of A RACE TRACK shaking your fist at oncoming cars.

 
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