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Old 06-12-2018, 02:56 AM   #121
Forgotten Child
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I did like james on this, but he was looking very insecure on stage. Billy can't hit the high notes, so why record a song like that in the first place?

 
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Old 06-12-2018, 02:59 AM   #122
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Insecure? He looks like he always has on stage, expressionless and eternally cool.

 
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Old 06-12-2018, 03:01 AM   #123
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I never realized I missed james this much. But like someone said above, it’s amazing what a difference his presence makes. Even his half assing (which he is not here) kicks Jeff’s ass to the curb.

 
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Old 06-12-2018, 03:02 AM   #124
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When James nods his head or sashays an arm, you know he's into it.

 
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Old 06-12-2018, 03:05 AM   #125
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Billy kills it on guitar and always has. Misses half the notes? Fuck outta here bro.
I agree he kills it but he still misses half the notes

https://youtu.be/0PBeAIV-L-c

Listen to his solo. Hear how there’s a lot sound coming out and a lot of finger tappy kinda stuff but you can’t hear what notes he’s actually playing? And how there’s these weird random moments where you dont hear anything at all for then you randomly hear a glissando or vibrato pop up? That’s what I’m talking about. Start listening more critically to his solos, that’s how 90 percent of them are. And his bends are always out of tune. And there’s no solid consistent time feeling. lol

 
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Old 06-12-2018, 03:05 AM   #126
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Digging the new snare sound...

Did they pull a Cleveland Browns and forget to add Iha's leads on the studio recording?

 
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Old 06-12-2018, 03:12 AM   #127
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Also james is way way up in the mix on this.. he’s really taken charge here thank fuck.

 
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Old 06-12-2018, 03:15 AM   #128
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Originally Posted by johncg View Post
I agree he kills it but he still misses half the notes

https://youtu.be/0PBeAIV-L-c

Listen to his solo. Hear how thereís a lot sound coming out and a lot of finger tappy kinda stuff but you canít hear what notes heís actually playing? And how thereís these weird random moments where you dont hear anything at all for then you randomly hear a glissando or vibrato pop up? Thatís what Iím talking about. Start listening more critically to his solos, thatís how 90 percent of them are. And his bends are always out of tune. And thereís no solid consistent time feeling. lol
ďStart listening more criticallyĒ lol youíre a douche.

Out of your league here bud. Putting you on ignore, later.

 
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Old 06-12-2018, 03:16 AM   #129
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Quote:
Originally Posted by johncg View Post
I agree he kills it but he still misses half the notes

https://youtu.be/0PBeAIV-L-c

Listen to his solo. Hear how thereís a lot sound coming out and a lot of finger tappy kinda stuff but you canít hear what notes heís actually playing? And how thereís these weird random moments where you dont hear anything at all for then you randomly hear a glissando or vibrato pop up? Thatís what Iím talking about. Start listening more critically to his solos, thatís how 90 percent of them are. And his bends are always out of tune. And thereís no solid consistent time feeling. lol
I think missing only half is pretty good when you're tripping on the moon.

 
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Old 06-12-2018, 03:28 AM   #130
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Insecure? He looks like he always has on stage, expressionless and eternally cool.
He looks sideways at Billy and/or Jeff as if he was making sure he was keeping up with them. I think it's natural tho, that's their first performance of a new song together.

+ Jeff's little solo is also as good as James and wasn't used for the studio version.

 
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Old 06-12-2018, 03:46 AM   #131
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reading too much into it I think. He’s literally just looking cool yo.

 
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Old 06-12-2018, 04:28 AM   #132
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I quite liked both performances, but I actually preferred Solara. They seemed to be more into it. And it worked well with the drums sounding more live than on the recording. I don't think James did all that much for the "why wasn't he on the recording" outcry, but it is heartening to see him taking all the solos and Jeff being relegated to the background (not as background as Jack Bates though!)

Vocally Zero wasn't great and Solara was better (except for the start). It's clear that Billy is going to continue to use sing the old songs in his new way, rather than how they used to be.

Billy changing his vocals is one of the biggest disappointments in my musical fandom.

 
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Old 06-12-2018, 04:34 AM   #133
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You guys applauding for a fucked up performance. The band consists of all members. Thats a shitty percormance

 
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Old 06-12-2018, 04:48 AM   #134
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I quite liked both performances, but I actually preferred Solara. They seemed to be more into it. And it worked well with the drums sounding more live than on the recording. I don't think James did all that much for the "why wasn't he on the recording" outcry, but it is heartening to see him taking all the solos and Jeff being relegated to the background (not as background as Jack Bates though!).
That last solo at 4:00 was actually Jeff. And I also think Billy "missed" half of the notes because Jeff is covering his back while he focus on the singing.

 
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Old 06-12-2018, 04:55 AM   #135
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This was better than I expected. Some thoughts:

- I agree that Jimmy and James save the show. While hearing James play on Solara after hearing a almost James-less studio version, a lot of things clicked. I think I understand much more about James contribution to the Pumpkins. Regardless of how many guitars Billy played on Siamese Dream, I think I can tell which parts are James'.

- I worry about Billy's health. Not sure whether anything can be done about his voice, but perhaps he should exercise his back and hips a bit more? He is so stiff. Also, there is no passion at all. I am a bit surprised because I expected him to put in some effort at least for promotion.

- The songs feel better if I close my eyes and don't see Bill looking miserable.

- LOL at Billy hiding his water after Solara.

- I'd buy tickets if they replaced Billy. I am not kidding. Imagine Jimmy + James + some bass player + Mathew Bellamy.

Last edited by Morlock : 06-12-2018 at 05:05 AM.

 
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Old 06-12-2018, 05:04 AM   #136
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That last solo at 4:00 was actually Jeff. And I also think Billy "missed" half of the notes because Jeff is covering his back while he focus on the singing.
Jeff doesn't play a single lead or solo on either song. They're all in James' channel and you can see him play them.

 
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Old 06-12-2018, 05:10 AM   #137
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The performances were not bad but not great....Solara is growing on me.

Something which I feel no one has mentioned, it is clear Billy was sick. Look at his eyes...he has red lines from the corner of his eyes across the top of his cheeks (on both sides). It is not pronounced enough to be makeup or a look. He has conjunctivitis or something....probably for the lack of energy from his part.

 
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Old 06-12-2018, 05:24 AM   #138
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Jeff doesn't play a single lead or solo on either song. They're all in James' channel and you can see him play them.
Even that one at 3.55 (solara)?

Now it only makes sense the zero solo played by James as he wrote that one.

 
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Old 06-12-2018, 05:36 AM   #139
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Even that one at 3.55 (solara)?

Now it only makes sense the zero solo played by James as he wrote that one.
Yes, I am certain.

I wonder how much they will make use of the fact that they now have three guitar players who can play leads. Think what you want about Jeff, but it would be interesting to listen to a song in which all three play leads or solos, jam a bit, play of each other. I doubt this will happen though.

Last edited by Morlock : 06-12-2018 at 05:49 AM.

 
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Old 06-12-2018, 05:48 AM   #140
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Fucking disgusting how one of the biggest names in producer world does such a bad job recording the song. The song itself is average at most if you ask me but after seeing this live performance it seems you could at least make a bit more out of it. There are so many young (or old) and talented lesser known engineers and producers that could have easily made it sound so much more lively or sprawling, instead it was fucking butchered by someone who I assume was ridiculously overpaid.

Have an average song recorded and produced in a better way and it could make a lot of difference.

 
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Old 06-12-2018, 05:52 AM   #141
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Wow funny how people now accept and try to hype average songs here.
Mix of rubin sucks- but mostly the song sucks.

U want average sp songs? Then wait for ep1

 
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Old 06-12-2018, 05:59 AM   #142
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Digging the new snare sound...
Did Jimmy change snares for Zero?

 
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Old 06-12-2018, 06:14 AM   #143
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that was plain.

 
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Old 06-12-2018, 06:55 AM   #144
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https://youtu.be/F8PYdpzhTY0

 
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Old 06-12-2018, 07:03 AM   #145
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Originally Posted by smashingjj View Post
Fucking disgusting how one of the biggest names in producer world does such a bad job recording the song. The song itself is average at most if you ask me but after seeing this live performance it seems you could at least make a bit more out of it. There are so many young (or old) and talented lesser known engineers and producers that could have easily made it sound so much more lively or sprawling, instead it was fucking butchered by someone who I assume was ridiculously overpaid.

Have an average song recorded and produced in a better way and it could make a lot of difference.
Is there a Rick Rubin album that sounds particularly good? Toxicity perhaps? Even some of the classics are not really classics because of the production, for example some of the RHCP albums, and even in cases where the dry production fits, there is the brickwalling (Californication). In my view a lot of his albums would sound better with a different producer. The effect is clear when bands move on from Rubin to someone else. RHCP sound better with Danger Mouse, Metallica sound better with Greg Fidelman.

From what I heard Rick Rubin is good at interacting with bands, making them feel comfortable etc.

 
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Old 06-12-2018, 07:17 AM   #146
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Old 06-12-2018, 07:31 AM   #147
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Originally Posted by Morlock View Post
Is there a Rick Rubin album that sounds particularly good? Toxicity perhaps? Even some of the classics are not really classics because of the production, for example some of the RHCP albums, and even in cases where the dry production fits, there is the brickwalling (Californication). In my view a lot of his albums would sound better with a different producer. The effect is clear when bands move on from Rubin to someone else. RHCP sound better with Danger Mouse, Metallica sound better with Greg Fidelman.

From what I heard Rick Rubin is good at interacting with bands, making them feel comfortable etc.
Toxicity was produced...aptly? but far from great, indeed. Californication was brick walled to hell and still had a certain charm (or it was just that it came out when I was 17). Both not great examples on how do it - but production masterpieces compared to this.

Last edited by smashingjj : 06-12-2018 at 08:06 AM.

 
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Old 06-12-2018, 07:39 AM   #148
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Wow funny how people now accept and try to hype average songs here.
Mix of rubin sucks- but mostly the song sucks.

U want average sp songs? Then wait for ep1

 
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Old 06-12-2018, 07:40 AM   #149
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well well well

 
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Old 06-12-2018, 07:49 AM   #150
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Only Jimmy and James are still smashing, the rest are just pumpkins.

 
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