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08-25-2019, 01:40 AM | #31 |
Apocalyptic Poster
Location: Machina Reissue HQ
Posts: 1,005
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08-25-2019, 02:11 AM | #32 | ||
Ownz
Posts: 534
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Regarding the Strat that Billy busted at Reading Festival and threw into the crowd, Billy smashing it up might be audible in the show's recording of I Am One: https://archive.org/details/tsp1992-...08-29d1t08.shn After 4:20, there are a bunch of intermittent thock sounds that I guess could be the guitar getting smashed. |
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08-25-2019, 02:27 AM | #33 |
Braindead
Posts: 18,608
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lol 4:20
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08-25-2019, 04:06 PM | #34 |
dumb
Location: $8.6 million embezzled funds
Posts: 11,368
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08-25-2019, 04:45 PM | #35 | |
Ownz
Posts: 534
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"Note: The 70's neck from the Blonde/Silver version of this guitar may have been used for the guitar Billy plays in the "Rocket" video (more on that guitar to come)." http://www.spfc.org/band/equipment.h...uipment_id=420 Here's a fiesta red '57 RI sale that's from 1988, which is the same year as Billy's star-decalded one (and which might be the year of all of his '57s): https://www.ebay.com/itm/1988-FENDER...E/123886077512 |
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08-26-2019, 09:46 AM | #36 | |
Janis Jopleybird
Location: Let me see you do the booty hop. And now make the booty stop. Now drop, and do the booty wop.
Posts: 6,571
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08-26-2019, 09:53 AM | #37 |
Just Hook it to My Veins!
Location: Donald Trump of Netphoria
Posts: 37,218
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best part is the fake id in the mail
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08-26-2019, 10:56 AM | #38 |
dumb
Location: $8.6 million embezzled funds
Posts: 11,368
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thanks took haha
love the edits TB. I mean this isn't me posturing or anything - I literally got through Jellybelly stroking out all those rolls. To this day I haven't had the chops to do that again |
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08-26-2019, 10:59 AM | #39 |
Janis Jopleybird
Location: Let me see you do the booty hop. And now make the booty stop. Now drop, and do the booty wop.
Posts: 6,571
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Oh, I didn't think you were bragging, I just thought "what's the best way to tell this at a party/bar"
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08-27-2019, 03:11 PM | #40 | |
Pledge
Posts: 109
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08-28-2019, 07:04 PM | #41 | |
Ownz
Posts: 534
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For anyone interested, here's the video of the smashing of the guitar: https://youtu.be/rLqLqM5paa0?t=3902 |
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08-28-2019, 08:00 PM | #42 | |
Socialphobic
Location: montreal
Posts: 11,679
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08-28-2019, 11:28 PM | #43 | |
Pledge
Posts: 109
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1. Chicago 12/31/91 at the Pumpkins local New Years Eve headliner show, as Nirvana started dominating MTV. 2. Reading 8/29/92 at the festival where Nirvana was headlining their big “comeback” show. 3. Astoria 2/26/94 with MTV cameras rolling, the week that Billy supposedly started seeing Courtney again. Also, it was a prop guitar - a random black Fender strat that Billy obviously had pre-arranged with MTV to destroy at the end of the show. See if you can spot the theme.... Last edited by meatngreet : 08-28-2019 at 11:34 PM. |
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08-28-2019, 11:32 PM | #44 | |
Pledge
Posts: 109
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https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=rvdwp4s1JXY |
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08-29-2019, 05:37 AM | #45 | |
Socialphobic
Location: montreal
Posts: 11,679
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08-29-2019, 02:03 PM | #46 |
Minion of Satan
Location: the institute
Posts: 6,421
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it's always been obvious to me that he had planned it, since he used a random strat, but is it obvious that MTV was in the know?
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08-29-2019, 03:10 PM | #47 |
Demi-God
Posts: 487
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I believe this is the actual 1994 Astoria smashed strat model. Made in Mexico early 90s dark blue.
Dropped in the lace sensors and smashed away. |
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08-29-2019, 07:57 PM | #48 | |
Pledge
Posts: 109
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As much as those kinds of things were filmed “live”, there is always a level of pre-production and advising that goes on behind the scenes. Think of the SNL rehearsals, or those sound check rehearsals that Nirvana did for Live n Loud. Those things usually have record execs on hand, there to have a say in the final product. |
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06-11-2022, 08:11 PM | #49 | |||
Ownz
Posts: 534
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I want to give an update on the information I put in this post, as I think I have things figured out now.
First, this part: Quote:
I think that whether the Squire story is true or not is up for question. Maybe the person who posted and deleted it removed it because they weren't serious about it. Regarding the wiring to get Billy's Lace Sensor Strat sound, I previously wrote this: Quote:
- a volume pot that's in the range of 470k - 515k - a neck (Blue Lace Sensor) tone pot that's in the range of 470k - 515k - a middle (Silver Lace Sensor) tone pot that's in the range of 260k - 290k - the bridge (Red Lace Sensor) is unloaded (it doesn't use a tone pot) - for the tone cap, I'm using 0.022uf And, very importantly, a 0.015uf bass-cut capacitor on the neck pickup's hot wire, as this diagram shows: https://www.seymourduncan.com/blog/t...ng-neck-pickup That diagram is for a Les Paul-style guitar, and it shows a 0.047uf cap. But the concept is the same. In my Strat, I soldered one lead of the bass-cut capacitor to the tab on the pickup selector switch for the neck pickup, and then soldered the neck pickup's hot wire to the other lead of the bass-cut capacitor. A friend of mine doubted this idea for a long time. But they've just tried it for themselves. And, after trying it, they think it's spot-on. Here's a photo they sent me of their work. I think that's Billy's Lace Sensor Stratocaster sound. The bass-cut cap on the Blue neck pickup balances the amount of bass between the neck and the bridge pickup positions, and it brings out a lot more clarity from the neck pickup, and enables getting that chimey neck-mid position sound that is Billy's go-to Siamese Dream-era clean sound. Of course, the amp, its tubes, and the amp settings also play an important part of dialing in that sound. But, in my experience, you can't get there without the bass-cut cap. With those stated values of pots and the 0.015uf bass-cut cap, I get the BC Lace Sensor Strat sound with my pickup heights and angles set like Billy's: I also tried 0.047 and 0.022 bass-cut caps, both of which left the neck pickup sound too bassy. And I tried a 0.01 cap, and that filtered out far too much bass, middle, and treble frequencies, and left only the highest of high frequencies, making the sound extremely thin. So, the 0.015 cap seems to be the right one. Last edited by he/she/it : 06-12-2022 at 11:45 AM. |
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06-13-2022, 08:08 PM | #50 |
Socialphobic
Location: montreal
Posts: 11,679
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Thanks!
this information is a goldmine. |
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06-15-2022, 11:30 AM | #51 |
Pledge
Posts: 109
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While switching up the wiring and pot/cap values will obviously impact the guitar's sound, I think the Alesis 3630 compressors in his signal chain were responsible for his chimey/clean sound - as that's a big part of what compressors do. He also ran his preamps with settings for each song, which took care of the EQ differences from one song to the next. Notice also that Iha's sound was not really that far off from Corgan's, and he was using a Les Paul, in addition to different SGs, and those guitars were also not likely to have had any special wiring. When guitars get up that loud, and have so many things in the signal chain, the differences between instruments becomes minimal.
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06-15-2022, 12:12 PM | #52 | |
Ownz
Posts: 534
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No prob. I hope it saves people from having to go through the years of tinkering and spending lots of money, trying to figure out that sound, that I did.
Quote:
James' Les Paul sound is really bright, and he used brighter pickups and also a BBE 462 Sonic Maximizer to make his sound brighter and more focused. He might have also used a bass-cut cap on the neck pickup. I also have a same-era, ebony-neck Les Paul Custom with the same pickups James had (Bill Lawrence for the black SD LPC, and I think Seymour Duncan SH-2 and SH-4 for his silver MCIS LPC), and I'm thinking of installing a 0.047 bass-cut cap to shave-off some of the bass. I messaged Drew Foppe, asking if he knew which pickups James had before he changed them, and whether there was a bass-cut cap in there, but he said he has no idea what was in there before - he just ripped them out and installed Tom Anderson (I think they're H1 and H3+. I verified it previously, but I'm going off memory now). Standard wiring in a Blue / Silver / Red Lace Sensor Strat with the bridge pickup unloaded (as was noted in one of Billy's Reverb listings that Billy does with all his Strats) will create a huge imbalance between the neck pickup and the middle and bridge pickups. And with all 250k pots, the sound is basically pure mud. Billy mentioned in this video that they used to have to mod their guitars a lot to get the sound they wanted. https://youtu.be/binU9zv-_Qc?list=PL...OKwNfQd9P&t=93 Billy's also known to mod his stuff to get a different, and hard-to-replicate sound - his JMP-1s were Voodoo modded (though, I'm guessing later than MCIS), his Strategy power amps were modded (he said to give them a "rounder" sound), perhaps to handle a different type of tube. And in his signature Fender Stratocaster, Billy went nuts with the pickup and switch wiring. After Gish, and claiming that Nirvana copied his studio sound, Billy said he set out to create a sound that nobody would be able to replicate. I have replicas of Billy's Gish, SD, and MCIS rigs, and I think the pot and cap mods I mentioned make all the difference. Last edited by he/she/it : 06-15-2022 at 12:33 PM. |
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06-15-2022, 07:06 PM | #53 | |
Pledge
Posts: 109
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Quote:
Billy had a lot of tricks in his rig, but most of his wizadry came from stock equipment. The Eventide patches he used were largely stock to that unit and just tweaked to his liking. Same with the Digitech Harmonizer and the other rack effects. It was the fact that he used them in songs that was memorable. Everyone else was using the standard stuff right from the store. His stuff was more expensive, that's all. Lace Sensors had already been on market for a few years when he put them in his strat. Lots of guitars came with that combination. No need to mod anything beyond the standard "upgrade" that people did to Strats back then. Change out the saddles, switch-out the tremolo, replace the tuners, switch out the pickups. Just my .02 cents. You could absolutely be right here, but there is a long long long list of famous players who had a specific sound that people swore could be decoded, and time after time it usually turns out that there was no special trick involved. Tony Iommi's Black Sabbath sound turned out to be achieved by turning the bass all the way down at the amp with a Dallas rangemaster, yet legions of doom/stoner rock players swore it was a mid-scooped Big Muff fuzz, which is pretty much the total opposite EQ. Likewise, everyone thought that Jimmy Page's Zeppelin tone was completely Marshall Super Lead, and yet it turned out that most of the Zeppelin records were using small Fender/Vox amps, and Hiwatt amps onstage - and when Page did move to Marshalls he actually used the Super Bass, not the Super Lead. With Corgan, the Big Muff used on Siamese Dream was assumed to be one of the "special" versions, and yet it turned out years later to be the lowly IC-based design that everyone had sworn was the least desirable. |
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06-15-2022, 07:15 PM | #54 |
Virgo
Posts: 42,781
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06-16-2022, 09:59 AM | #55 |
Socialphobic
Location: montreal
Posts: 11,679
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If billy was REAL he'd have sowed his own hey to feed his own goats, to slaughter and make his own gutstrings.
or at least bought a mine to smelt his own steel strings. using "off the shelf" strings, what a pleb |
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06-16-2022, 01:05 PM | #56 | ||||
Ownz
Posts: 534
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Quote:
Everybody with the standard wiring that you see demoing it on YouTube has a murky sound that doesn't properly convey the SP sound. That murkiness is what's fixed with the mods I mentioned. Billy's neck-mid position sound can't be dialed in with a stock setup. https://youtu.be/V5lAFu77PlI?t=210 https://youtu.be/MMheeahEKrw?t=89 https://youtu.be/SO0PumuBrwA?t=61 This guy got the closest with effects, but it's still off, and he doesn't demo the neck-mid position sounding like Billy's (from what I've seen, anyway): https://youtu.be/QY0a63439bw In that video, he doesn't even use the neck-mid position for the intro, which is what Billy played it with on the album, but uses the mid-bridge position. He probably does that because the neck-mid sounds really dark with his setup, and so the mid-bridge position gives the closest thing to the album tone that he can get. And while the Marshall 2203 is a super bright amp, Billy's JMP-1 + Strategy 500 rig is a dark-sounding combo. With a stock B/S/R setup, using Billy's pickup-heights (all basically horizontal to the pickguard, so not dialing down neck bass by angling the pickup), the Marshall 2203 rig would run into its own problems when switching from neck tones to bridge tones, as, if the neck-mid were set for some level of clarity, the bridge would be very-painfully, ear-piercingly shrill. Quote:
https://www.thegearpage.net/board/in...italo.1988500/ https://www.thegearpage.net/board/in...ilable.956321/ From what I recall, Billy used his Eventide H3000 just for delays and reverb. Quote:
As I said, Lace recommends the Silver for the neck pickup. And when they sold the Strat Plus and Deluxe with Lace Sensors, which is how Billy probably would have demoed Lace Sensor pickups back in the day, the Silver or Gold was what would usually come in the neck position, and it would also have TBX pot wiring. I'm not sure I've ever seen a Blue come stock in the neck position on one of those guitars - but maybe it did. https://reverb.com/item/52917561-fen...or-pickups-tbx https://reverb.com/item/46762092-199...e-sensors-case https://reverb.com/item/54461879-fen...t-tbx-sperzels https://reverb.com/item/48427102-fen...nson-schallers Edit: Yes, some Strat Plus Deluxe came with a Blue in the neck position: https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/224991974...oAAOSw~0dihLv0 Me and a friend messaged Billy's tech from the SD days, Bob English (AKA, Hippie Bob), who said that they tried every pickup combination - sometimes the Silver in the neck, sometimes the Red, sometimes the Blue. So, Billy's pickup layout didn't come from just going with a stock configuration, but from experimentation. When Billy started using Lace Sensors, he didn't start with the Blue / Silver / Red combo. He started with just one, maybe a Red, in the bridge position. He later added another two Lace Sensors. I guess that he was experimenting until he found a sound that he liked. Quote:
Last edited by he/she/it : 06-16-2022 at 09:11 PM. |
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06-16-2022, 01:56 PM | #57 |
Virgo
Posts: 42,781
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i love hearing about all of this stuff - sincerely no irony
i remember an old site from the late 90s that was just assigned to "amp settings" for billy and with my little peavey practice amp i thought i was the biggest band in the world |
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06-16-2022, 03:05 PM | #58 |
Apocalyptic Poster
Location: hey, motherfucker hey, superstar
Posts: 3,287
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What positions did billy use the most with lace sensors? You're talking a lot about the mid-neck while i've always considered him to be a bridge/neck kinda guy
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06-16-2022, 03:20 PM | #59 |
Janis Jopleybird
Location: Let me see you do the booty hop. And now make the booty stop. Now drop, and do the booty wop.
Posts: 6,571
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I don't understand a single fucking word either of these two are saying but I'm reading everything with great interest
I think I just like seeing two clearly immensely knowledgeable people, in any field, arguing over minutia by throwing facts at each other until it turns out one has more and better facts I felt the same when someone, I don't remember who, came on Colbert's show and quizzed him on really obscure Lord of the Rings shit and Colbert was just windmill dunking on every single question Who do I root for? I think I see which way this is going, but I'm hoping this goes on for at least another couple pages with some twists and turns along the way |
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06-16-2022, 05:35 PM | #60 |
Minion of Satan
Location: sleuthing around like a worm
Posts: 5,692
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Never heard that the Strategy 500’s power amps were modded. I’ve always read the “rounder” quote in regards to his 2203 being modded for KT88’s. I think his Mesa’s were stock and he used the half power setting as he’s stated before.
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