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Old 01-04-2019, 06:11 PM   #31
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Originally Posted by Mals Marola View Post
i also never realized Rhinoceros was the longest track on Gish - always thought of Window Paine as the album's "epic"
I think that technically Window Paine and Rhinoceros are about the same length when you subtract the weird 30-second watery feedback sound at the end of Rhinoceros.

 
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Old 01-04-2019, 06:35 PM   #32
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Old 01-04-2019, 08:54 PM   #33
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I think itís gotta be considered pretty much a scientific fact at this point that SD and MCIS are top two. But I would have to very strongly put Gish at number 3. No way is Adore even in the same ballpark.
Amen. I don't understand why Gish ranks so low on a lot of these type of lists. Everything post Gish-MCIS era pales in comparison IMO.

 
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Old 01-04-2019, 09:04 PM   #34
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i look at it as the album where maybe more than any other in his career, he disregarded the expectations & desires of the public and did exactly what he wanted to do.
I disagree with this take and I see it mentioned a lot.

I believe the subdued vibe with the electronic elements of Adore seem to be a response to capitalize on the MASSIVE success of 1979. Hell you look at songs like Perfect and it's a dead wringer... Most people forget with this revisionist history, but electronic elements were HUGE in popular music at the time, so Corgan leaning on those elements wasn't "going against expectations" but merely chasing the trend of the time.

 
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Old 01-04-2019, 09:12 PM   #35
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he was one missing badass drummer away from making that kind of music to begin with

Dunno that they'd have quit making Cure worship if not for Chamberlin

 
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Old 01-04-2019, 09:28 PM   #36
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I disagree with this take and I see it mentioned a lot.

I believe the subdued vibe with the electronic elements of Adore seem to be a response to capitalize on the MASSIVE success of 1979. Hell you look at songs like Perfect and it's a dead wringer... Most people forget with this revisionist history, but electronic elements were HUGE in popular music at the time, so Corgan leaning on those elements wasn't "going against expectations" but merely chasing the trend of the time.
This is such an oversimplified, Catherine Wheel -esque way of looking at it I don't even know where to start. The expectation was for them to continue being this huge rock band with the occasional "pop" single, & they respond with a somber album full of acoustics & the occasional electronic-tinged track. The only "revisionist history" here is you trying to act like they were making a Republica album or something (which, tbh, coulda been awesome if they pulled it off right)

 
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Old 01-04-2019, 09:45 PM   #37
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Are you seriously fucking kidding me right now

Do the right thing and eat a gun over your, quite frankly, treasonous (ATTN: FBI) incitement to violence

When you watch the news tonight and see that three loaded jumbo jets crashed themselves into the exact spot where the World Trade Center once stood you'll know it's this guy's fault
for real, both good tracks

 
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Old 01-04-2019, 09:46 PM   #38
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I'm not sure where you get the idea that there was an expectation for them to be a huge rock band... 3/5 of the singles from MCIS were non-rock, softer songs. The 2 rock hits from MCIS were straight up grunge songs and by 98, the writing was on the wall as far as grunge was concerned. Electronica seemed to be the future and since SP had their biggest success with 1979, they decided to use that as a template for the next album. You listen to songs like Perfect, Pug, Pistol Pete, Apples and Oranges ETC and they're all laid back songs with electronica elements.

Adore was simply not as radical of a departure as people continuously make it out to be. It was definitely in line with the pivot that bands of the era were taking.

 
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Old 01-04-2019, 09:59 PM   #39
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ah friday night trollin with fuzzrod

what you drinking brah?

 
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Old 01-04-2019, 10:05 PM   #40
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electronica was the future in '81

 
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Old 01-04-2019, 10:56 PM   #41
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really enjoyed reading this, pretty well done, dude is obviously a fan and well-versed in their history.

it's too bad he didn't ******* TAFH or pisces, would have enjoyed his take on those. i'd likely have switched the order of mcis and sd, but agree with the rest of it.

one of the very few things that stuck out as weird to me was when he said that the try try try video still "haunts the soul 13 years later". typo for 18 years later, or is he recycling some writing from 2013?

regardless, cool and enjoyable article, thanks for posting.

 
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Old 01-04-2019, 11:02 PM   #42
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ok but have you voted in my adore vs gish pole?

 
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Old 01-04-2019, 11:16 PM   #43
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ok but have you voted in my adore vs gish pole?
i had not, but have since voted. adore all the way!! (assuming your pole was asking me to vote for the album i prefer of the two. if it was asking me to vote for the album i prefer less, i would vote for gish)

 
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Old 01-05-2019, 11:50 AM   #44
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muchacho gracias!

 
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Old 01-06-2019, 12:17 AM   #45
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With every light rated as the worst song on Machina

I’m triggered , wtf

 
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Old 01-06-2019, 01:32 AM   #46
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god fuzzy just shut up.

yeah, to sheila, shame, nitemare, annie dog, tale of dusty, tear, once upon a time, for martha, blank page, etc etc etc.. such trendy tracks!! he literally slammed lmgtw off of the final track list for the points you are trying to give. i'll give you the perfect ripping off 1979 but that's it. adore was a risky af move for smashing pumpkins and they paid for it and so did the fans. I knew the record was in trouble when Ava Adore tanked as the first single and MTV played that video like, twice. the only revisionist history happening there is the illusion that that single was a hit and the album was a hit. it wasn't. billy nearly lost his mind that summer.

anyway-- MCIS>SD>Adore>Machina2>Gish>Machina is how'd id rank 1991-2000 output. but I've had Machina 2 at #1 before, same with adore and SD. But never Gish or Machina 1. also sometime i do feel like gish is better than Adore.

ultimately, ranking is seriously fuckign stupid. i hate lists.

 
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Old 01-06-2019, 06:30 PM   #47
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I'm not saying it wasn't a departure, I'm just pointing out that it wasn't as big of a risk as people like to romanticize it as...

By 1998, grunge was DEAD. Alice In Chains, Soundgarden and Pearl Jams latest sales were down big time and the other remaining groups were forced to pivot. Those who think that there was pressure to make another Bullet With Butterfly Wings and continue doing the alt-rock thing clearly weren't following the musical landscape at the time... Even groups like Silverchair were forced to pivot with songs like Ana's song and the rest of the Neon Ballroom record. So for Billy, going an acoustic route with electronic elements was perfectly sensible and in line with the times.

 
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Old 01-06-2019, 07:54 PM   #48
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lol the musical landscape

lol silverchair

lol forced to pivot


LOL

 
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Old 01-06-2019, 08:02 PM   #49
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I think SP easily could have coasted on at least one more album’s worth of MCIS style music. They were the biggest band in the world and absolutely no one was sick of that sound whatsoever. Loud rock music with guitars still had at least another 5 years left of mainstream popularity. Even when Radiohead came out with KID A a couple years later, people were pissed it didn’t sound like THE BENDS and OK COMPUTER. There was no one forcing SP to pivot.

That’s just my opinion though.

 
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Old 01-06-2019, 09:01 PM   #50
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opinions arent allowed here.

 
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Old 01-06-2019, 09:10 PM   #51
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Netphoria should ban any Consequent Off Sound articles too. Like the Sad Machines.

For this stupid ranking list...

 
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Old 01-07-2019, 02:04 AM   #52
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I think Adore is good for what it is: Corgan failing on purpose.
lmao whut

 
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Old 01-07-2019, 08:42 AM   #53
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He’s referred to Adore as “public suicide” and “falling on my sword” and “breaking the band’s public image” a bunch of times...like it was a purposeful attempt at making the wrong move in order to make a statement.

I don’t know. I just work here.

 
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Old 01-07-2019, 09:16 AM   #54
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Originally Posted by johncg View Post
I think SP easily could have coasted on at least one more album’s worth of MCIS style music. They were the biggest band in the world and absolutely no one was sick of that sound whatsoever. Loud rock music with guitars still had at least another 5 years left of mainstream popularity. Even when Radiohead came out with KID A a couple years later, people were pissed it didn’t sound like THE BENDS and OK COMPUTER. There was no one forcing SP to pivot.

That’s just my opinion though.
Perhaps. But the idea at the time was that there wasn't much gas left in the tank and as far as grunge/ gen-X alt rock went. So to pivot and change course was really more of the norm in 1998 and not some radical gamble.

Regardless, though it was a ballsy departure, they probably still assumed that they had 2 or 3 surefire smash hits to fall back on and that just wasn't the case.

 
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Old 01-07-2019, 08:10 PM   #55
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Originally Posted by fuzzyroes View Post
Perhaps. But the idea at the time was that there wasn't much gas left in the tank and as far as grunge/ gen-X alt rock went. So to pivot and change course was really more of the norm in 1998 and not some radical gamble.

Regardless, though it was a ballsy departure, they probably still assumed that they had 2 or 3 surefire smash hits to fall back on and that just wasn't the case.
how was it a ballsy departure if grunge and alt rock were near empty like you said?

like you said, to change course was thenorm in 1998 wasnt a radical gamble.

so which is it?

the depature cant be ballsy if it was supposedly expected

 
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Old 01-07-2019, 08:24 PM   #56
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lol i see you are new to the fuzzrod experience

 
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Old 01-07-2019, 09:50 PM   #57
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its just been the same shit through the whole thread...

 
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Old 01-07-2019, 09:54 PM   #58
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how was it a ballsy departure if grunge and alt rock were near empty like you said?

like you said, to change course was thenorm in 1998 wasnt a radical gamble.

so which is it?

the depature cant be ballsy if it was supposedly expected
The trend and playbook of these bands was to change course at the time, but for SP maybe they could've done something a little more accessible... Adore is a very dour record

 
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Old 01-07-2019, 09:56 PM   #59
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lol i see you are new to the fuzzrod experience
Maybe I'm not being clear, but I've read for years fans saying "wow! I can't believe they ditched the alt-rock thing with Adore, how daring" but the rock thing was DOA at the time.

Everyone who was paying attention can concede that. Hell, like SP, Bush was even using electronic elements in their sound.

 
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Old 01-07-2019, 09:59 PM   #60
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Here's the thing, if you weren't listening to music in the 90's, then you won't understand.

For youngsters in their early 20's now, it's a little hard to fathom how trend based the mainstream bands were back then.

 
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