joanna newsome

[vixnix]

Originally Posted by redbreegull

ok, apply the brakes. Fiona Apple is like ten times more respected and widely appreciated than Joanna Newsome

ah stop trolling me

[redbreegull]

I mean this is not meant as an attack on Newsom's music or talent in any way, but Fiona Apple is a critically revered and massively influential artist; a voice of her generation. Joanna Newsom is even now barely remembered as anything but a flash in the pan of mid-2000s piano indie elvish-core

[redbreegull]

Originally Posted by vixnix

I have been playing piano and writing music for most of my life, and it just grates on me as artistic sloth.

When people say stuff like this I am always reminded of this woman I went to college with who would go around telling people, "My boyfriend's band is better than Radiohead."

[vixnix]

hmmm yes, revered alongside smash mouth and the bloodhound gang as a songwriting pioneer with two terrible albums

[vixnix]

Originally Posted by redbreegull

When people say stuff like this I am always reminded of this woman I went to college with who would go around telling people, "My boyfriend's band is better than Radiohead."

did you consider that unlikely? because radiohead is so good?

[redbreegull]

The only artist in that vein I can think of who is more widely highly regarded is Tori Amos. I'm not commenting at all on artistry, but to say that Joanna Newsom is more popular or held in higher public esteem than Fiona Apple is borderline ridiculous

[vixnix]

you gotta be trollin me right now with this fiona apple crapple

[redbreegull]

maybe things is different down in toilets flush the opposite direction land, but up here we stand on the floor, not the ceiling

[redbreegull]

Fiona Apple's first album has sold more copies than every Joanna Newsom release combined

[vixnix]

ppfpffffffffffttttt to you. pfffffffffffftt indeed

[redbreegull]

I was just kidding about the toilet thing, that's a myth.

[vixnix]

Originally Posted by redbreegull

Fiona Apple's first album has sold more copies than every Joanna Newsom release combined

Sure, because she signed with Columbia. Baby One More Time sold more than all of Fapple's catalogue, too. I guess her critical acclaim and influence are even greater.

[slunken]

Basically vixnix is trying to justify her own years of (bad) music lessons by saying that the academic newsome is scientifically better than apple, simply because of her training.

I have no horse in this race but get that classicism out of my face.

[redbreegull]

Originally Posted by vixnix

Sure, because she signed with Columbia. Baby One More Time sold more than all of Fapple's catalogue, too. I guess her critical acclaim and influence are even greater.

hey, you were the one who said more people like Joanna Newsom which is categorically false. Tidal has sold 2.7 million copies according to wikipedia, and Newsom's entire catalogue hasn't sold a million copies. Apple's worst selling record, the lame fourth one, has sold double what any Newsom album has.

that logic is like, "Bernie Sanders has received less popular votes, BUT IF there wasn't a democratic establishment and a mainstream media Clinton has been building coalitions through for decades, Sanders WOULD HAVE received more votes."

[slunken]

So anything vixnix and her schoolmates can compose is intrinsically better than Fiona Apple. That's the logic.

[redbreegull]

a feather and an airplane WOULD fall to the Earth at the same speed IF ONLY we could get rid of fucking air and wind


goddamn fucking air, man

[slunken]

I'm not trying to dump on you, vix. I feel the same way about my own music. But comparing the two is apples and oranges.

You can't compare rock and roll and sexual primal music to intellectual classical fugues and sonatas with movements.

And even still, Newsome isn't doing anything that classical. She's playing african-inspired polyrythms on an instrument not used to that kind of sound. It isn't an intellectual exercise at all.

And yes she is a very good lyricist as well.

[slunken]

I mean if you want to get real George Harrison and Johnny Greenwood have done similar things, translating another cultures musical patterns and styles to another instrument not specific to that culture.

It's just that to most people the harp is still a pretty foreign instrument.

[redbreegull]

in fairness, vix wasn't the moran who said Joanna Jewsom is rehashing Fiona Apple, it was that other guy. I don't even know Joanna Jewcum's music, I'm just saying there is no comparison in terms of their recognition and popularity.

[slunken]

the only other artist I can think who can compare to newsome but still plays a traditional instrument (guitar) would maybe be st. vincent. what are your thoughts on her?

[slunken]

Originally Posted by redbreegull

recognition and popularity.

that's your argument. i'm interested in discussing technique and training.

[slunken]

I mean, how many other harp players can anyone count off or name. I know of 2 others, but both are more experiemental and not as pop-oriented as newsome. In fact they don't sing at all.

I'm slightly suspicious the harp is a novelty to her following. Not to disparage that.

[redbreegull]

Originally Posted by slunken

that's your argument. i'm interested in discussing technique and training.

right, I was specifically responding to vixnix when she said, "the reason Fiona Apple doesn't impress as many people as Jewsom is..."

the very first thing I said on the matter was that their styles do not sound similar to me

[slunken]

If I had been trained since age 8 or whatever on some kind of goofy instrument, I would pray to god that I would be smart enough not to get stuck playing the same old tired standards known to that instrument and actually do something cool with it.

[slunken]

Originally Posted by redbreegull

right, I was specifically responding to vixnix when she said, "the reason Fiona Apple doesn't impress as many people as Jewsom is..."

the very first thing I said on the matter was that their styles do not sound similar to me

I don't want her to turn this into an argument between you and me (and I'm not at all arguing with you) but - yea totally.

My point is that its so silly to even compare the two, other than WOMAN FRONTED ON NOT ROCK INSTRUMENT kind of caveman mentality.

But then when she said that all of her "classically trained" classmates used to scoff at Apple made me think it came from two different schools of thought. Primal vs Intellectual. Sex vs Brain.

I don't think Newsome is making Brain music.. However talented her playing or her lyrics may be. She may be the best in her game (left-field pop) but it's nothing more than that. Her ex-bf engineer does all of the composing on her albums. She's not conducting or arranging those strings.

[slunken]

Originally Posted by Poots

let's take two women who are doing their own thing musically and praise one by ripping the shit out of the other, because they can't both be good, one of them has to be a total cunt.

yes, this

[slunken]

shoot she's still in the thread. i hope she's furiously typing a response otherwise this was all for naught.

my intentions were to stay out of it, but she had to bring class into it.

[slunken]

the only thing that gets my political blood boiling is class issues.

[vixnix]

Originally Posted by slunken

If I had been trained since age 8 or whatever on some kind of goofy instrument, I would pray to god that I would be smart enough not to get stuck playing the same old tired standards known to that instrument and actually do something cool with it.

there are too many "standards" to get stuck, and often, the coolest thing you can do with a piano is play from the canon, which has been continually added to for the last coupla hundred years.

You don't begin piano by learning beethoven sonatas - you start with the stuff Mozart wrote when he was a child, move through Bach's keyboard studies, then branch out and go in any one of a few directions, all of which contain more music than you will ever learn how to play.

I am wary of sentencing my own children to that same fate, because it definitely gives a kid an inferiority complex, to grow up playing the music that was good enough to survive the composer's death and rapidly changing cultural and musical environments.

I don't really care about the crapple apple except for the comparison made with Joanna Newsom.

Sure, they're different.

When I said more people liked Joanna's work, I guess I expected you to be in that category because up until this very day I have honestly not met a single sane, musically literate person who presented the case to me that Fiona Apple is interesting, in an artistic sense instead of a popular culture sense....

Which is the opposite of my experience with Joanna Newsom. I guess I just hang out in the kind of circles that heavily favour something like Newsom over something like Apple.

[redbreegull]

http://www.jazzguitarlife.com/wp-con...274_7567_n.jpg

"you know jimmy hendrix had pretty bad form, right?"