Netphoria Message Board


Go Back   Netphoria Message Board > Archives > Pumpkins Archive
Register Netphoria's Amazon.com Link Members List Mark Forums Read

 
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 08-11-2014, 04:23 PM   #121
Ram27
dumb
 
Ram27's Avatar
 
Location: $8.6 million embezzled funds
Posts: 11,358
Default

hey thanks

 
Ram27 is offline
Old 08-11-2014, 04:26 PM   #122
vajohna
Ownz
 
Posts: 668
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by slunken View Post
Anyone know offhand who was playing drums on this?
Joey Waronker. Who is kind of a genius. Usually. In true Pumpkins fashion, his touch, amazing ability, technique, and proficiency are buried under all of the percussive mess of "Perfect."

 
vajohna is offline
Old 08-11-2014, 04:31 PM   #123
slunken
Virgo
 
slunken's Avatar
 
Posts: 42,781
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by vajohna View Post
Joey Waronker. Who is kind of a genius. Usually. In true Pumpkins fashion, his touch, amazing ability, technique, and proficiency are buried under all of the percussive mess of "Perfect."
I didn't think it was M.Cameron or even M.Walker. So that would have only left Joey.

That first fill that sticks out like a sore thumb to some people is misleading because it's acting as a pick-up beat. If you listen to the rest of the song I think the fills are great and fast and sound like regular fills.

The song's tempo is being dictated electronically so I'm sure it was difficult to get the live drums timing just right, especially during the fills, which is why the fills sound so restrained later on. Some drummers will accent the fill as a new measures beginning but here the drum fills are muted and a pickup beat is the most accented.

I don't know a whoooole lot about drumming (obviously) but anyone who says the drums are "wrong" on this track is a total moron.

 
slunken is offline
Old 08-11-2014, 04:33 PM   #124
slunken
Virgo
 
slunken's Avatar
 
Posts: 42,781
Default

I'll admit that it first jumped out at me when listening over a phones speaker, but once I got home and put on headphones, the seperation of the two drum tracks was obvious and it all made total sense. I didn't even question it a 2nd time.

 
slunken is offline
Old 08-11-2014, 04:36 PM   #125
themadcaplaughs
Apocalyptic Poster
 
themadcaplaughs's Avatar
 
Posts: 2,625
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ram27 View Post
Why were people hyping up Towers of Rabble? Hasn't the Double Door recording been out for a while? Or was everyone hoping for a studio version.


The very first fill pisses me off, at 42 where he randomly hits a tom. Are we totally sure Mike Burns didn't rerecord this?
Yes, I think for a while Billy led people to believe there was a rough demo recording of "Towers of Rabble" he was looking at including in the reissues. He either mentioned it on Twitter or when he was still on Facebook in 2010.

So we did get a more clean version of the live recording though.

 
themadcaplaughs is offline
Old 08-11-2014, 04:38 PM   #126
GLOWer
Demi-God
 
Posts: 304
Default

the drums aren't wrong. they just don't do a whole lot to help sustain the momentum.

 
GLOWer is offline
Old 08-11-2014, 04:39 PM   #127
vajohna
Ownz
 
Posts: 668
Default

They are playing, almost ridiculously, to a click track. To the point that the song seems kind of pasted together. Rubin should've gone more with letting the band play, as they do in the live versions.

Waronker has been Beck's drummer for forever now and his playing on this LMGTWTY is very reminiscent of his work on Sea Change. Here's him letting loose on PBS.


 
vajohna is offline
Old 08-11-2014, 04:39 PM   #128
redbull
Immortal
 
redbull's Avatar
 
Location: like liutenant dan i'm rollin'
Posts: 21,016
Default

i thought the towers of rabble demo was supposedly thrown out along with the gospel version of jupiter's lament because BC didnt like it

 
redbull is offline
Old 08-11-2014, 04:40 PM   #129
slunken
Virgo
 
slunken's Avatar
 
Posts: 42,781
Default

The more I listen to it, the more the buried keyboard is starting to sound like a quiet harmonica.

 
slunken is offline
Old 08-11-2014, 04:41 PM   #130
slunken
Virgo
 
slunken's Avatar
 
Posts: 42,781
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by redbull View Post
i thought the towers of rabble demo was supposedly thrown out along with the gospel version of jupiter's lament because BC didnt like it
They included the gospel version of jupiter's lament. But yea the big baby said that Towers wasn't good enough to release.

 
slunken is offline
Old 08-11-2014, 04:41 PM   #131
slunken
Virgo
 
slunken's Avatar
 
Posts: 42,781
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by slunken View Post
The more I listen to it, the more the buried keyboard is starting to sound like a quiet harmonica.
Haha. Awesome.

 
slunken is offline
Old 08-11-2014, 04:43 PM   #132
GLOWer
Demi-God
 
Posts: 304
Default

as great as it is having this, it just doesn't sound finished in this incarnation. Billy was right to hold off and finish it properly for Machina 2.

 
GLOWer is offline
Old 08-11-2014, 04:44 PM   #133
killtrocity
Saturday Night Goth
 
killtrocity's Avatar
 
Location: POLLOS
Posts: 9,207
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by panda show View Post
ah, I don't know.. it's really a tough thing to think about in the first place.. I kind of doubt that Jimmy's presence would have changed the sound of adore and the musical approach they used.. even during many MCIS-era interviews, they (and jimmy too) were saying how they like the idea of experimenting with beats/samples and electronic stuff and they see themselves going in that direction for the next album..
Compare TITBITER to anything from Adore, that's the difference between electronic + Jimmy and electronic - Jimmy. His absence fundamentally shaped Adore, as much as his presence shaped Machina

 
killtrocity is offline
Old 08-11-2014, 04:44 PM   #134
T&T
Socialphobic
 
T&T's Avatar
 
Location: montreal
Posts: 11,656
Default

in 1998 incorporating electronic music with live band recordings always forced drummers to follow the click track. This awkward juxtoposition always made it difficult to use both. today with beat mapping you can easily add electronic drums to a live drum take (free of click track).

 
T&T is offline
Old 08-11-2014, 04:44 PM   #135
redbull
Immortal
 
redbull's Avatar
 
Location: like liutenant dan i'm rollin'
Posts: 21,016
Default

Matt plays on TEITBITE not JC

 
redbull is offline
Old 08-11-2014, 04:46 PM   #136
Shallowed
Braindead
 
Posts: 18,608
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Forgotten Child View Post
I wonder if this version is exactly like the Rick Rubin final version or if they changed it too much while remastering it. It sounds too clean and the vocals are too loud, it's more like a 2014 mix than a 1998 one, if you know what I mean.
Quote:
Originally Posted by whywontyoulistn View Post
Everything sounds awkwardly bolted on instead of being part of the song.
Quote:
Originally Posted by AveryLoren View Post
I think there's definitely some revisionist history going on in this track.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ram27 View Post
M2 version is tons better. Better mixing, Jimmy drumming.
Quote:
Originally Posted by s0ss View Post
Hold on a second- this sounds like a demo.

How can this be a final studio recording of a song?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ram27 View Post
It sounds like a Teargarden era LMGTWTY versus an Adore era LMGTWTY.
Agree with all of these comments, I was thinking all of this as I listened. It sounds unfinished and not properly mixed. I'm pretty underwhelmed, I can't believe that they grinded in he studio for this.

But I appreciate that something was dropped out of nowhere like this.

 
Shallowed is offline
Old 08-11-2014, 05:03 PM   #137
houseofglass11
Minion of Satan
 
houseofglass11's Avatar
 
Location: Gold Lace Sensor
Posts: 5,655
Default

I like the vocals and guitars better on this version. With better drumming it would have been a hit single of 1979 proportions. I like the rawness of this version compared to the overproduced sound on Adore. I wish the whole album sounded more like this.

Last edited by houseofglass11 : 08-11-2014 at 05:10 PM.

 
houseofglass11 is offline
Old 08-11-2014, 05:19 PM   #138
juliana
Apocalyptic Poster
 
juliana's Avatar
 
Location: Crestfallen News Dumpster
Posts: 3,056
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by houseofglass11 View Post
I like the vocals and guitars better on this version. With better drumming it would have been a hit single of 1979 proportions. I like the rawness of this version compared to the overproduced sound on Adore. I wish the whole album sounded more like this.
Lol what? Sorry what versions are you talking about?

 
juliana is offline
Old 08-11-2014, 05:23 PM   #139
juliana
Apocalyptic Poster
 
juliana's Avatar
 
Location: Crestfallen News Dumpster
Posts: 3,056
Default

What about the 2007 version:

I think it is good
http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=hrmT9pWqfwg

 
juliana is offline
Old 08-11-2014, 05:24 PM   #140
paranoid
Minion of Satan
 
paranoid's Avatar
 
Location: up a tree
Posts: 7,510
Default

Uh guys I'm pretty sure this song only has 1 drum track and it's live acoustic drums. That plodding beat you hear in the beginning is not electronic.. Waronker is playing a pretty straight forward Tom Tom groove, sort of reminiscent of SIYL but with less flare.

Last edited by paranoid : 08-11-2014 at 05:31 PM.

 
paranoid is offline
Old 08-11-2014, 05:29 PM   #141
slunken
Virgo
 
slunken's Avatar
 
Posts: 42,781
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by paranoid View Post
Uh guys I'm pretty sure this song only has 1 drum track and it's live acoustic drums. That plodding beat you hear in the beginning is not electronic.. War inker is playing a pretty straight forward Tom Tom groove, sort of reminiscent of SIYL but with less flare.
i swear i can hear some rhythmic bubbling thing creeping through here and there but i mentioned above i don't know jack about drumming.

 
slunken is offline
Old 08-11-2014, 05:32 PM   #142
Grox
Apocalyptic Poster
 
Grox's Avatar
 
Posts: 1,695
Default

wtf is TITBITER

 
Grox is offline
Old 08-11-2014, 05:37 PM   #143
T&T
Socialphobic
 
T&T's Avatar
 
Location: montreal
Posts: 11,656
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Grox View Post
wtf is TITBITER
batman song.

 
T&T is offline
Old 08-11-2014, 05:42 PM   #144
s0ss
Demi-God
 
s0ss's Avatar
 
Location: Montreal
Posts: 395
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by paranoid View Post
Uh guys I'm pretty sure this song only has 1 drum track and it's live acoustic drums. That plodding beat you hear in the beginning is not electronic.. Waronker is playing a pretty straight forward Tom Tom groove, sort of reminiscent of SIYL but with less flare.
Ya- the mix is just shit and you can barely hear the toms.

 
s0ss is offline
Old 08-11-2014, 05:42 PM   #145
paranoid
Minion of Satan
 
paranoid's Avatar
 
Location: up a tree
Posts: 7,510
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by slunken View Post
i swear i can hear some rhythmic bubbling thing creeping through here and there but i mentioned above i don't know jack about drumming.
You do hear that, but it's all live drumming. Joey's pretty great and solid and this track shows that.

I love the subdued ending, btw. Underwhelming if compared to SPs other epic build ups, but this ending is pretty characteristic of adores sound and production. I remember feeling underwhelmed in that same way when I first heard adore. Crestfallen is probably the best example of a song lacking the grand dynamics that made the pumpkins great. But again with time I've learned to appreciate the different approach with adore.

 
paranoid is offline
Old 08-11-2014, 05:43 PM   #146
houseofglass11
Minion of Satan
 
houseofglass11's Avatar
 
Location: Gold Lace Sensor
Posts: 5,655
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by juliana View Post
Lol what? Sorry what versions are you talking about?
I think Adore is overproduced. There's too much going on in a lot of the songs.

 
houseofglass11 is offline
Old 08-11-2014, 05:45 PM   #147
s0ss
Demi-God
 
s0ss's Avatar
 
Location: Montreal
Posts: 395
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by juliana View Post
What about the 2007 version:

I think it is good
http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=hrmT9pWqfwg
Good joke.

 
s0ss is offline
Old 08-11-2014, 06:10 PM   #148
wounded
Apocalyptic Poster
 
wounded's Avatar
 
Posts: 3,773
Default

I like it. It's nice. his voice sounds really good to me.

 
wounded is offline
Old 08-11-2014, 06:23 PM   #149
Forgotten Child
Apocalyptic Poster
 
Forgotten Child's Avatar
 
Location: SP, Sao Paulo - Brazil
Posts: 4,845
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by houseofglass11 View Post
I think Adore is overproduced. There's too much going on in a lot of the songs.

 
Forgotten Child is offline
Old 08-11-2014, 06:37 PM   #150
juliana
Apocalyptic Poster
 
juliana's Avatar
 
Location: Crestfallen News Dumpster
Posts: 3,056
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by houseofglass11 View Post
I think Adore is overproduced. There's too much going on in a lot of the songs.
#facepalm

 
juliana is offline
 


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is On
Google


Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Adore Reissue News Ramdust Pumpkins Archive 1874 07-14-2015 12:38 PM
Adore Survivor VIII xezton Pumpkins Archive 56 11-23-2007 11:54 PM
2007 Pisces Iscariot Reference Virex19 Pumpkins Archive 80 04-29-2007 05:01 AM
"something is being created which millions of people are holding their breath over" davin Pumpkins Archive 18 10-30-2006 08:43 PM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 01:20 PM.




Smashing Pumpkins, Alternative Music
& General Discussion Message Board and Forums
www.netphoria.org - Copyright © 1998-2022