itt: we discuss bass

[redbreegull]

Billy is a virtuoso guitarist, so what's with his approach to the bass guitar? In many heavier SP songs the bass is hardly definable from the din of drums and distortion. Even when you can hear the bass, it's usually mixed way down and kind of produced with a sort of round dullness that hides it back in the mix instead allowing it to cut through. On top of that, the bass part in most SP songs simply follows the guitar chords, effectively adding a bit of weightiness to the general low end of the guitar conglomeration, instead of adding to the music by really doing its own thing.

On Gish the bass parts are clearer and more resonant? I guess? And Billy "speaks" more with the bass than on any following album. There are actually some memorable bass hooks on this album, but afterward the bass was always by far the most neglected part of the band's sound. So why is this? Certainly Billy can play bass well beyond the ability he demonstrates through his recorded music. Was it to keep things easy for D'arcy when the songs were played live, or is bass just boring to Billy, or what?

[redbreegull]

also itt good bass parts in sp songs

the first one that comes to mind is the bass in the verse part of Hummer starting where the vocals start. The bass in the outro is good as well, and you can really hear it fully and clearly in the mix as opposed to most sp songs.

[ButterflyBullet]

I think it might have been both - something D'arcy could play and also I think Billy mentioned in a interview he liked how the bass was understated and sort of sat under/followed the guitars or something

[Butt Pope]

Bury me bass

[themadcaplaughs]

From the Gish month chat

why was the bass so pronounced on Gish as opposed to your other albums?
Friends of mine, all had guitars and I just thought it would be "cool" to play, and then I realized it was really hard to play, so it sat in my closet for a year (the guitar, that is) and then one day my friends came over to "jam", so I was forced to "jam" and it was pretty exciting, and from being forced to play, I learned how to play guitar. This dates back to pre-school.
that was before we realized we wanted the guitars really loud all the time

[russticles]

I'd say it was to make it easy for D'Arcy... and for the rest of us wannabe bass players.
The role of "bass" as far as BC's music is concerned didn't really "step up" until Paz played on the Zwan record and Nicole played on Oceania, the bass playing on both of those records are quite punchy and hooky compared to the previous SP records where the bass mainly played root notes... which is fine, there was tons of space filled with guitar and drums anyway.

It's a shame Nicole was let go, I really liked her playing... except on Owata, it's unecessarily busy on that song but... that song sucks anyway. Her playing on Lightning Strikes though, phwoar.

I quite liked the vibe of the bass on Raindrops and how it sounds like "water". Simple and driving

[East Rocket]

I'm thinking that the bass parts just always took a backseat compared to guitar. Guitar was what was meant to shine through. On a lot of the pre-Gish demos, esp those songs written before D'Arcy was in the band, the bass parts aren't spectacular.

[Ram27]

Don't know shit about bass but I just wanted to commend you for a quality thread

_____________________

I really enjoy how the bass warms and rounds out the sound in Set the Ray and the Hummer outro. I think it's a mixture of D'arcy's style/ability plus the band's sound being more guitar oriented

The two songs with solo bass riffs I can think of are I Am One and Blue. And even I can play those riffs

The little solo in Tribute to Johnny is cool too

[bobliefeld]

Fuckin LOL @ Billy is a virtuoso guitarist.

[bobliefeld]

Machine has a different approach to typical SP too. Most of the songs are really drums and bass as the main instruments with guitars and synths there for decoration. Bass is very prominent in the mix.

[HereIsNoWhy4U]

A lot of the basslines on some slower songs like "By Starlight", "Galapogos" are amazing. Also the "Hummer" bassline stands out quite a bit.

[Bomb The Moon]

Gish did have some of the finest SP bass ever. I prefer those grittier basses to the more dull basses that became the norm afterwards.

One of the best things that came out of SP 2.0 was the GLOW bass line... that shit was nasty.

[T&T]

The bass part on Roustabout burns the lies. it's so fresh and original. go and give it a 2nd listen, the bass part is really great!

[Grox]

pale scales is one of billy's best & most under-appreciated bass lines, for an obvious reason since it was never properly released

[redbreegull]

Originally Posted by bobliefeld

Fuckin LOL @ Billy is a virtuoso guitarist.

there's something wrong with your ears if you think this is funny. The guy is a world class musician.

Originally Posted by bobliefeld

Machine has a different approach to typical SP too. Most of the songs are really drums and bass as the main instruments with guitars and synths there for decoration. Bass is very prominent in the mix.

what you are hearing is mostly that they used a lot of baritone guitars in drop C. I would say the bass is the most lost on Machina because the muddy production collapses the low end into a sloppy staticy mess on a lot of songs.

[redbreegull]

I think it's most likely a stylistic choice to put the bass in the backseat rather than something having to do with D'arcy's ability. But Billy has talked about how you write differently when you do so with the bass referring to Gish songs, and it is kind of strange how high the level of musicianship is on all the other instruments in general. What made him abandon writing with the bass? You can tell songs like I Am One, Crush, Bury Me... those songs are centered on the bass riff, a quality completely nonexistent in the band's later music. I wonder if he heard Loveless and decided to do the same kind of thing with SD, where there is almost no bass in the mix (although Loveless does this to a greater extent than SD)

[toase]

All SP (SP1 official discography) songs have a weird mixing for my ears, they are very different from anything else I remember, and the bass only makes sense when the volume is loud and my headphones/speakers have good bass
it reminds of metal bands, actually deftones may have similar weird sounding mix too

[werideatdusk]

Glass and the Ghost Children ftw

[redbreegull]

Originally Posted by toase

All SP (SP1 official discography) songs have a weird mixing for my ears, they are very different from anything else I remember, and the bass only makes sense when the volume is loud and my headphones/speakers have good bass
it reminds of metal bands, actually deftones may have similar weird sounding mix too

can you expound on what you mean by weird mixing? Honestly curious.

I definitely agree that the bass comes through a lot better on a nice sound system. Especially if you listening on vinyl, you know you get that warm tangible feeling from the low tones, like the instruments are actually in the room with you.


Billy mentioned in one of his confessions how D'arcy wrote the bass part for Waiting on a 6 string bass, and what a great idea that was and how well it works in the song (I think this was contextualized by his admission that her and Iha wanted him to release Adore as a solo album, as they had contributed less than even on SD). I can't even think of the bass part in Waiting though. I'll have to check it on when I'm on my own computer.

[toase]

I know shit about bass and mixing (obvsly) my impression is that it seems that the guitars, the bass and the vocals are all muffled, the drums are not (gladly). This has been discussed here before, hasn't?

Deftones is a bit like that, but the vocals

[redbreegull]

hm. Billy's voice is produced pretty differently on each album to my ears. Gish and especially SD vox are run through a lot of equipment I think. On MCIS his voice is left much dryer and the focus seems to be more on highlighting the natural qualities and emotiveness of his voice. Adore focuses more on his voice than any other album and brings it more to the front instead of cradled by the guitars.

In general I think I know what you mean by muffled guitars on MCIS and Machina, but not so much on the other albums. The guitars sound pretty crisp and powerful to me. MCIS and Machina both suffer from muddy production that kills definition and depth to the guitars and drums, especially on the low end.

[toase]

Yep

[East Rocket]

Originally Posted by robinsoncrusoe

daughter

Yeah that's a good bass part. I'm not saying the bass parts are bad they just aren't Les Claypool type bass playing. I like the bass intros on songs like My Eternity, There It Goes. Simple but they work well.

Originally Posted by redbreegull

MCIS and Machina both suffer from muddy production that kills definition and depth to the guitars and drums, especially on the low end.

I wonder who is doing the remixing on the Machina reissue?

By the way, what song on Machina 2 did Melissa actually play on? Theres like one song right?

[crabshack]

Originally Posted by East Rocket

I'm not saying the bass parts are bad they just aren't Les Claypool type bass playing.

So you're saying they're not horribly overplayed?

[crabshack]

Not Worth Asking has some fairly complicated bass patterns in the chorus.

[Versac]

i like the bass in transformer

[Versac]

more accurately, i did when i last heard it. years ago

[thomas_bland]

Set the Ray to Jerry... Love the bass sound on this. As said above D'arcy was 'punk rock' in her style but it's simple elegant and worked for the band.

[Ram27]

Elegant is a really good word to describe it

Wasn't she classically trained on violin or something?

[thomas_bland]

Originally Posted by East Rocket

By the way, what song on Machina 2 did Melissa actually play on? Theres like one song right?

Was it the cover of Rock On from Judas O?