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06-20-2014, 07:19 AM | #61 |
Demi-God
Posts: 290
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I update the list, let me know if anything is wrong. Bold means I have the best circulating source, bold and italics means someone in this thread has it.
Original list updated: Adore Demos II: Leaked on Netphoria in 2007 as WAVs/FLACs Quiet And Other Songs: Leaked on Netphoria in 2007 as WAVs/FLACs Adore Demos I: CD-R on Ebay in 2000, bought and treed via CD-Rs Gravity Demos: Given out by Billy in 2000, then treed by 34 as part of Triple Tree Friends and Enemies of Modern Music: Given out by Billy in 2000, then treed by 34 as part of Triple Tree Machina Acoustic Demos: Billy 4 or 8-track master ---> analogM (billy) ---> CDR master (billy) given to Eric Weinrich -> whoever released it Mashed Potatoes: < 10 CDs distributed by Billy. Eventually uploaded to the Hub in full as SHN; inferior partial copy from ANA circulates, owned by Simon Coyle MCIS Demos I: RTS tree; (Billy's Home Demos bootleg is supposedly an inferior copy) MCIS Demos II: Appeared on Ebay in 2000, circulates as ANA-L > DAT0 > CDR-0 > SHN MCIS Demos III: ANA > DAT > CD-R (inferior version was part of RTS tree) Pisces Iscariot + Friends: ANA > SHN?? Reel Time Sessions: STU>DDC-1>CDR as part of RTS tree Sequence IV: Courtney Love ANA > Onaric ANA? > John Mulhausen (applied NR) > CD-R / SHN Courtney Love ANA > Onaric ANA? > Dave Asselin DAT (uncirculated)Machina Premaster: Leaked on Netphoria in 2007 TSP/Moon Demo: Best version is an ANA cassette from Ebay, owned by bmaromar, distributed by rhinowing in 2009 Virgin B-Sides Promo Tape: ANA cassette from Ebay, owned by bmaromar, distributed by rhinowing in 2009 MCIS Rough Mixes: ANA cassette from Ebay, owned by bmaromar, distributed by rhinowing Additions to the list: 666 Tape: PRO > VID-2 > CD-R Drown 8-Track Demo: SPRC Nothing Ever Changes: Ana-L>CDR-M>Cool-Edit>CDR-M (Asselin)>CDR-2>SHN Gish Basement Tape: On Pisces Iscariot reissue. Also on Pumpkin Seeds bootleg, did this circulate in any other form? Do we have a copy direct from the ANA? What about the TSP demo tape? That was on SPRC earlier this year, somehow I missed that. How does the quality compare to bmaromar's DAT? CrabbMan, is that 666 tape recording you have the one listed above? If we can get RTS and Triple tree rips then we can guarantee good lineage on almost all remaining tapes. Last edited by magikarp99 : 06-22-2014 at 06:50 PM. |
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06-20-2014, 07:28 AM | #62 | |
Just Hook it to My Veins!
Location: František! How's the foot of your turtle?
Posts: 32,743
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margin
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06-20-2014, 06:27 PM | #63 | |
Amish Hoe Fighter
Location: Humboldt, CA, USA
Posts: 1,327
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What does everybody think about instead of labeling and grouping them by their traditional circulating names (ie Adore demos II or Friends & Enemies of Modern Music) we do so by their recording session? So FaEoMM would be labeled as Chicago Recording Company 1998-1999 and would not ******* tracks 10-14 which were tacked on to the tape. And then there's the matter of all the tracks that were released in the re-issues. Does anyone have a problem with replacing the bootleg versions with the official releases? I don't know if people are against cleaned up versions in general, or just amateur noise reduction like (13). Just now listening to A/Ab/E/B/F#, I personally prefer the reissue version of that recording. |
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06-20-2014, 07:25 PM | #64 | ||
Demi-God
Posts: 290
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I think this is what I was referring to. Great.
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I think there is value in having the original versions of the tapes. |
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06-20-2014, 09:04 PM | #65 | |
Braindead
Posts: 18,608
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It would go against the point of bootlegging these recordings if officially released reissue versions were spliced into the original bootleg source. If I'm listening to Gravity Demos for instance, I'd want to hear it as it sounds on that tape, not the cleaned up officially released version, which is readily available anyway.
On that note, I know there is this Quote:
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06-21-2014, 05:19 AM | #66 | ||
Demi-God
Posts: 290
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Last edited by magikarp99 : 06-21-2014 at 05:25 AM. |
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06-21-2014, 08:34 PM | #67 | |||||||
Amish Hoe Fighter
Location: Humboldt, CA, USA
Posts: 1,327
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The Ignoffo tape? No, at least not in its orginal form. And that gets to the heart of I think my main disagreement with you guys on some stuff. back again to that no record 2x rule. I'd really prefer some consolidation by recording session. I mean, I don't feel the need to have 4 versions of the same recording because it was released on Mashed Potatoes, the Moon Demo tape, Ignoffo tape and the Reel Time Sessions. Now, I'm not totally without sentiment. I've been around here for a while. I remember being super stoked when an mp3 snippet of For Martha came onto netphoria from a radio promo for their opening for the Stones at the Texas Motor Speedway. And every time there was a new leak of an old recording, whether for the first time or a major upgrade, it was exciting and momentous. But over the years it's created a somewhat chaotic pool of duplicate tracks from varying lineages. Looking at the list we have, it is for the most part pretty well organized by recording session as is. But I am happy to do away with lower quality redundant tracks rather than keeping them in circulation just because they were part of a lineage that was special to the community at one time. I would have no problem blowing up the Ignoffo Tape, Mashed Potatoes, Moon Demo--of course keeping anything that isn't available elsewhere. So, keeping intact or consolidating full recording sessions with the best available tracks, and a mega torrent collecting everything else that doesn't have a proper home. Quote:
Anyway, I get the sense that this is not the consensus of the community here, but I at least wanted to elaborate on my particular 'vision' or whatever. I'll gladly participate in helping create the torrents and seeding with whatever the group decides to do. This, of course, wouldn't even be a discussion if Billy would go ahead and OK the creation of a digital Pumpkins archive, containing all of Billy's collection of his bands' recordings. |
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06-22-2014, 05:01 AM | #68 |
Demi-God
Posts: 290
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Everything has always been distributed by its source. If you want to mix sources to form entire recording sessions then I feel that is a compilation.
You don't like it when you download something from ZOMB and it's missing a track right? If we distribute bootlegs spliced together, to many people this is the same thing. As for naming, I never intended to suggest that we distribute anything as Triple Tree or RTS Tree. I am only mentioning these as it stems back the original distribution of the tapes. One of the appealing things about demos is how raw they are. Mastered versions are nice, but may be altered beyond just doing a high quality transfer. For this reason, there would still be appeal in having what is currently circulating, even if Billy suddenly released mastered tracks of the entire pumpkins archive. Let's say we splice mastered and raw tracks together to create complete sessions, then there would be inconsistencies in frequency response and noise which would be distracting. |
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06-22-2014, 06:29 AM | #69 | |
Just Hook it to My Veins!
Location: František! How's the foot of your turtle?
Posts: 32,743
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grouping by recording session: i vote no. replacing single tracks by an upgrade from a different source: i vote no too. |
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06-22-2014, 06:46 AM | #70 |
Demi-God
Posts: 290
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In this case, shall we incIude the Ignoffo tape then?
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06-22-2014, 07:19 AM | #71 |
Just Hook it to My Veins!
Location: František! How's the foot of your turtle?
Posts: 32,743
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sure, why not?
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06-22-2014, 01:24 PM | #72 | |
Immortal
Location: like liutenant dan i'm rollin'
Posts: 21,016
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06-22-2014, 04:01 PM | #73 |
Amish Hoe Fighter
Location: Humboldt, CA, USA
Posts: 1,327
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Is there anything on the Ignoffo Tape that isn't elsewhere?
spfreaks has the source listing as: 1-9 Reel Time Studio's II Summer '89. 10 Billy Corgan's father Home Studio Sept. '88. 11 Schwa Productions Dec. '88. 12 Billy Corgan's father Home Studio Sept. '88 (cut at ?:??). 13-18 live Cabaret Metro, Chicago 1988/10/05 19 Reel Time Studio's II Summer '89. 20 live Last Exit, Chicago 1988/11/20. 21 Reel Time Studios I Nov. '88. I grabbed my discs, but turns out those CD-Rs really don't last all that long.... |
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06-22-2014, 06:49 PM | #74 |
Demi-God
Posts: 290
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06-23-2014, 04:45 AM | #75 |
Braindead
Posts: 18,608
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Crabbman, you're probably in a minority of people who would want to compile the "best versions" of all available recordings. If they're circulating in their original, untampered forms, you and anyone else are free to arrange them on your own computer however you see fit.
It has nothing to do with sentimentality (for me, at least) and more to do with inclusiveness and completeness. |
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06-23-2014, 06:05 AM | #76 |
Amish Hoe Fighter
Location: Humboldt, CA, USA
Posts: 1,327
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Yeah, I see that the interest seems to be in preserving things how they were released to the community, so we'll go with that. Does this mean that we'd inclūd the Ignoffo Tape, even if it doesn't have anything that isn't elsewhere (still an open question to me).
Another thought I'm having is to have a specific directory structure that each of these releases having its own folder, such that we could have a torrent file for each one, but also a single larger torrent that references the entire collection. And theoretically you could add or replace any content and just update the main torrent. I wouldn't foresee that happening often, but at least we could be flexible for when that holy grail finally leaks. Is there actually any holy grail still out there? Or was everything known eventually leaked out? |
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06-23-2014, 06:53 AM | #77 |
Just Hook it to My Veins!
Location: František! How's the foot of your turtle?
Posts: 32,743
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i don't see the advantage of one big torrent.
is there nothing unique on the ignoffo tape? what about the three tracks that were added as bonus? "i fall" isn't available anywhere else, is it? or would these not be included, as they're not actually on that tape? |
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06-23-2014, 07:57 AM | #78 |
Amish Hoe Fighter
Location: Humboldt, CA, USA
Posts: 1,327
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The advantage of one big torrent is that it's easy for anyone who wants it all. Or easy for anyone that wants just some. When I want an album from a band, I often download the torrent for their discography and just select the folder(s) that i want. But the nice thing is it doesn't have to be either or. We can also have torrent files for the individual releases, as long as you keep the directory structure as is.
That way, people can search for an individual release and find it. Or download the Smashing Pumpkins Demos Megatorrent. But yeah, things like those extra tracks on the Ignoffo tape; I wouldn't want to download the whole disc just to get a track. That, or the extras on FaEoMM, PI+friends, etc that make me want to have a collection of one-offs that don't belong, or even better a collection of all the tracks from WPC Sr. home studios. But really, why is it more appropriate for a track like "I Fall" to be included as a bonus on the Ignoffo tape instead of a bonus on Nothing Ever Changes? I'm not saying everything needs to be upended, but is there not room to do a little housekeeping to put some minor stuff in order? But I guess that's another project... And now that I've started looking, what do we have of this session: http://www.spfc.org/band/studio.html?session_id=2 ? |
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06-23-2014, 08:01 AM | #79 | |
Just Hook it to My Veins!
Location: František! How's the foot of your turtle?
Posts: 32,743
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06-23-2014, 08:32 AM | #80 |
Demi-God
Posts: 290
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Do what What.CD does. For those who want everything, provide a ZIP file of all the torrents. If you don't want to add each torrent one by one, most torrent clients these days allow you to add entire directories of torrents at once.
If you want to download a single track from any one torrent, you can instruct your torrent client to only download the files you want from a torrent. No need to download the entire Ignoffo tape if you only want one track. Of course, this isn't generally encouraged, as the health of the torrent is impacted if people pick and choose what they want. |
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06-23-2014, 08:38 AM | #81 |
Demi-God
Posts: 290
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So what is circulating for the Spun soundtrack? We have the leaked M4As. Did we ever get anything better?
It looks like I'm missing 4 of the M4As for some reason. Can someone upload these? Zwan - Jesus, I (Spun version) |
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06-23-2014, 08:39 AM | #82 |
Demi-God
Posts: 290
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06-23-2014, 11:44 AM | #83 |
Demi-God
Posts: 290
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06-24-2014, 05:04 AM | #84 | |
Just Hook it to My Veins!
Location: František! How's the foot of your turtle?
Posts: 32,743
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on the ignoffo tape and other old tapes:
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06-24-2014, 03:13 PM | #85 |
Amish Hoe Fighter
Location: Humboldt, CA, USA
Posts: 1,327
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Good read. Where's this from? It doesn't appear to exist elsewhere on the internet. Though according to LinkedIn this Sven guy was at one point the webmaster for TheSmashingPumpkins.com?
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06-24-2014, 03:19 PM | #86 |
Just Hook it to My Veins!
Location: František! How's the foot of your turtle?
Posts: 32,743
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he was?
i think he wrote one or two articles for sp.com when they were letting people write content (somewhere between 2007 and now). i didn't think he was ever the webmaster. i don't know where it's from. found it on netphoria. i guess he just did some proper research and comparing after the ignoffo tape came out. if i'm not mistaken, he's got quite a lot of old tapes. i even believe he once found a tape that appeared to be the only remaining source of one or more songs (i fall?), and he gave it back to bc. that's just my memory talking though. not necessarily true... |
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06-24-2014, 04:23 PM | #87 |
Amish Hoe Fighter
Location: Humboldt, CA, USA
Posts: 1,327
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I guess he was just a "web editor" Webredacteur
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06-24-2014, 05:39 PM | #88 |
Demi-God
Posts: 290
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All that content is from the original release of the Ignoffo Tape on The Traders Den.
http://www.thetradersden.org/forums/...p?t=428&page=5 |
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06-24-2014, 07:34 PM | #89 | |
Minion of Satan
Location: I was born a snake handler, and I'll die a snake handler
Posts: 9,517
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06-24-2014, 09:18 PM | #90 |
Demi-God
Location: UK
Posts: 370
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This is the best Moon Demo source
http://zombtracker.the-zomb.com/details.php?id=46746 The bmaromar source but speed corrected |
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