So has this finally last-coffin-nailed u or what

[Rider]

I checked out years ago, hell a decade ago at this point.

I actually kinda like the new songs. Just can't get up the energy to care about them.

There was a brief ray of hope with how much work and originality he put into the production of the reunion tour. That was however was marred by the silly over the top fan reaction to Darcy being "left out."

I don't even really listen to the old stuff anymore. I cared about it way too much and Billy just never was that the guy I thought he was. I listen to his lyrics now and feel it was all just engineered to be early 90's commercial shit.

Back then I was like why do all his peers hate him, now I feel dumb because it's really obvious why they hated him.

[Rider]

Originally Posted by Greatvegetable

You mean 15 sincere 'you're the only one I'll ever love' love songs about 15 different girlfriends?

Pink ribbon scars
That never forget
I tried so hard
To cleanse these regrets

That's the one that always stands out to me. There is no way Billy ever really felt that. And reading it as a more emotionally mature adult I can see it's just a shit narcist writing a sad song.

[run2pee]

Originally Posted by Rider

Pink ribbon scars
That never forget
I tried so hard
To cleanse these regrets

That's the one that always stands out to me. There is no way Billy ever really felt that. And reading it as a more emotionally mature adult I can see it's just a shit narcist writing a sad song.

Huh, of all the songs to pick on as artificial from the original run, i wouldn’t have expected this one

Rider, what about disarm? Do u think it’s a product or did he feel them feelins?

[dustrocck]

Originally Posted by incubator

Nearest thing I can think of is it's supposed to sound like Hall & Oates or Young American by way of Elvis Presleys fat years.

Well I certainly don't get that from listening to them.

There's no soul, not even any plastic soul in these.

[Disco King]

G-guys…

[Zer0 Hour]

Originally Posted by Greatvegetable

It's so, so fucking fucking fucking bad.

It's like Michael Jordan going down to the level of playing for the under 11s team of a tiny English village in which only three people play basketball and the other two have been roped in to make up the numbers. He's one of the other two.

It's so bad. This is the guy who wrote Hummer, Mayo, Geek USA, Ruby, Porcelina, Hello Kitty Kat, Obscured and literally 100 other 10/10 songs.

It's ineffabley bad. So bad that I'm vomiting blood and would rather suck sick through a tramp's sock than hear any more of this abomination of an album.

Yep. It’s the worst thing he’s ever done. And this is the guy who gave us Blinking with Fists.

[Ram27]

Originally Posted by Disco King

G-guys…

baby it's halloween and we can be a shitty synthpop band too

[run2pee]

Originally Posted by Zer0 Hour

Yep. It’s the worst thing he’s ever done. And this is the guy who gave us Blinking with Fists.

it’s lonely at the top

[GreenDogGlynis]

Originally Posted by Rider

I checked out years ago, hell a decade ago at this point.

I actually kinda like the new songs. Just can't get up the energy to care about them.

There was a brief ray of hope with how much work and originality he put into the production of the reunion tour. That was however was marred by the silly over the top fan reaction to Darcy being "left out."

I don't even really listen to the old stuff anymore. I cared about it way too much and Billy just never was that the guy I thought he was. I listen to his lyrics now and feel it was all just engineered to be early 90's commercial shit.

Back then I was like why do all his peers hate him, now I feel dumb because it's really obvious why they hated him.

Feel however you want to about it but I wouldn't let the post reunion output effect my enjoyment of the Classic SP albums, those were great and totally sincere. I don't know what the deal is with Billy and obviously no one does, but its obvious the success went to his head in a bad way and he just refuses to take input unless he's sucking up to Rick Rubin. Hell, if he would just get some producers and engineers like he did in the old days I think everyone would like the new albums a lot better.

[eviltimeban]

Imagine him working with someone like Nigel Godrich, he who told McCartney his songs weren't good enough, prompting Macca to make one of his best solo albums in years.

But if Billy was open to that, his music would definitely better. Even now, imagine him working with Butch Vig; Vig making him work for hours and hours on one line of vocal. I bet when Billy records vocals for these new songs it's once through and done. And not in a good way. He probably sang all 20 in the same day.

[buzzard]

What is the longest Corgan has gone without doing anything music-oriented since his career began?

[VoxUpDoc]

Just a reminder that Cyr isn't some mystical word or literary title, but a reference to "Clean Your Room" by incel-baiting shit-peddling alt-right quack-doctor Jordan Peterson, whose self-help books are hilariously undermined by the fact he's now vegetated and MIA somewhere in Russia.

Billy's "self-help" gurus Neil Strauss and Jordan Peterson... imagine a 50+ year old being so full of shit!

[VoxUpDoc]

Originally Posted by Rider

I checked out years ago, hell a decade ago at this point.

I actually kinda like the new songs. Just can't get up the energy to care about them.

There was a brief ray of hope with how much work and originality he put into the production of the reunion tour. That was however was marred by the silly over the top fan reaction to Darcy being "left out."

I don't even really listen to the old stuff anymore. I cared about it way too much and Billy just never was that the guy I thought he was. I listen to his lyrics now and feel it was all just engineered to be early 90's commercial shit.

Back then I was like why do all his peers hate him, now I feel dumb because it's really obvious why they hated him.

Yup 100%.

I don't believe the abuse and suicide stories that were circulated around Siamese Dream either.

[Cool As Ice Cream]

Originally Posted by memories_unwind

You`re confusing me with my mate František who - as the owner of the Sportovni Hala in Prague - played a crucial role in leaking SP`s setlist on their European tour in 2008. He used to have one turtle but unfortunately it has already passed. I`ve been thinking about getting turtles for quite some time now but always refute the idea, don`t know why. Maybe it`s because I really like fish.

František! Is that you?!? How's the foot of your turtle?

[eviltimeban]

Originally Posted by Greatvegetable

I dunno man, the latest SSPU is their weakest in my opinion, Butch killed their sound.

No that wasn't the point; it was more about having a producer to push him, like Vig used to push him in the past. Someone to say "do it again" or "that song shouldn't be on the album". Howard Willing hardly did that, and Rubin literally did the opposite.

[Morlock]

Last music I bought was Zeitgeist, last concert was Oberhausen in 2008. I have been mildly interested and enjoyed some tracks, but it feels like Shiny was the final, final nail in the coffin. I don't think I finished listening to even one of the last bunch of tracks, and I barely got through two or so songs from Bill's folksy albums.

There is so enough stuff out there that does what Billy's attempting, only much better and by people who are more likable.

I like visiting Netphoria to keep up with the news and because it's so entertaining.

[Shadaloo]

People still thinking this is the same guy who wrote SD

Fucking lol

[VoxUpDoc]

Originally Posted by Greatvegetable

I was thinking the same, but there's no way you could write Geek or XYU without genuine passion. Maybe he was psychotic or had borderline?

Drugs, low self-esteem and rejection. Mainly drugs.

The tortured genius schtick was just piggybacking on what was marketable to 90’s teenagers. Let’s sell that saccharine Today hook with a tragic back story...

[dustrocck]

I'm not sure how much the producers ever really pushed him. Seems like Butch and Flood at least could understand Billy's vision for the albums and help him deliver on it.

Listen to like, the Machina demos, or the dozens of tossed-away riffs for MCIS. He had a crazy run as a songwriter where 90% of what he wrote was gold.

Machina 2 is mostly garbage quality as far as the production goes and yet it's an order of magnitude better than anything post-2000.

I'm not convinced he has the drive to write amazing songs anymore. It's hard to believe he just lost the ability to do so.

Zwan was really the first warning sign that whatever vision that was planted in his brain wasn't leading to the best material being released.

So many fantastic live Zwan songs and almost none of them on the actual album.

[MyOneAndOnly]

Originally Posted by Rider

Pink ribbon scars
That never forget
I tried so hard
To cleanse these regrets

That's the one that always stands out to me. There is no way Billy ever really felt that. And reading it as a more emotionally mature adult I can see it's just a shit narcist writing a sad song.

you don't think he ever considered suicide?

he did have a shit childhood. i would give his younger self the benefit of the doubt.

[Rider]

Originally Posted by Run To Me

Huh, of all the songs to pick on as artificial from the original run, i wouldn’t have expected this one

Rider, what about disarm? Do u think it’s a product or did he feel them feelins?

I think he's a sociopathic narcissist who does not experience feelings.

[Rider]

Originally Posted by MyOneAndOnly

you don't think he ever considered suicide?

he did have a shit childhood. i would give his younger self the benefit of the doubt.

I think he wrote a song about suicide. I don't think he ever was suicidal.

[Rider]

Originally Posted by GreenDogGlynis

Feel however you want to about it but I wouldn't let the post reunion output effect my enjoyment of the Classic SP albums, those were great and totally sincere. I don't know what the deal is with Billy and obviously no one does, but its obvious the success went to his head in a bad way and he just refuses to take input unless he's sucking up to Rick Rubin. Hell, if he would just get some producers and engineers like he did in the old days I think everyone would like the new albums a lot better.

Post reunion output has fuck all to do with it. Bobo being a lying manipulative insincere asshat is what it's about.

[GreenDogGlynis]

Yeah, I don't see any reason to question the motives and sincerity of original SP. Most great bands have a limited run of the top material and taper off, and SP's output was in another universe compared to pretty much everybody else. They just got tired after working extremely hard, and Billy's
desire to be the center of attention just got to be out of control. But I think it does comes down to the fact that he's just isolated and making all of the decisions on his own that's the issue. Really no different than when an actor who gets some momentum starts making and choosing their own projects and just don't know how to choose a good role.

[GreenDogGlynis]

Originally Posted by Rider

Post reunion output has fuck all to do with it. Bobo being a lying manipulative insincere asshat is what it's about.

He is ridiculously defensive that is for sure.

[Disco King]

Originally Posted by Rider

I think he's a sociopathic narcissist who does not experience feelings.

Lol, Jesus, haha

[Disco King]

This board kinda reminds me of that phase little girls go through when they start hating Barbie dolls as a way to show that they are no longer into stupid baby toys and are smart big kids instead.

Like, first everyone goes through the phase where they idolize their favourite rock star and impose an idealized personality on him. Then, they start seeing that he has flaws, but they are in some form of denial about it, so they become apologists and minimize his actions and say shit like "oh, creative people always have a screw loose, that's what makes them so unique and creative in the first place. He's rough around the edges, but that's just him and insanity is genius, blah blah blah."

Then, when they get consistently disappointed by their idol and can't escape the mounting evidence that he really kinda sucks as a person, in order to demonstrate that they are past the juvenile idealizing phase and are no longer naïve enough to think that the sun shines out of some dumb rock star's ass, they shift into having a hyperbolic vitriol for the guy and start saying shit like "he's probably a Nazi who doesn't even have human emotions and I think he's the true murderer of JonBenét Ramsey (did we ever solve that one? I forget. If so, pick a different funny example)."

[Disco King]

I mean, if that's the only way you can detach yourself from something you've emotionally invested yourself in so that you can escape the pain of brutal disillusionment, you do you, but maybe don't invest your identities so much in other people in the first place.

[Shadaloo]

Netphoria 2021:

"I don't think Billy Corgan ever had a mom, For Martha was written about James' parakeet"

[MyOneAndOnly]

Originally Posted by Rider

I think he wrote a song about suicide. I don't think he ever was suicidal.

how would you know that? and why would you decide of all things that this was something worth questioning