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Old 08-23-2018, 09:03 PM   #31
rawkstar
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Everyone hates Owata that much? I get that the lyrics aren't the greatest but I always liked this song, particularly the live versions w/ Jimmy.

 
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Old 08-24-2018, 12:27 AM   #32
houseofglass11
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That's the Way
Doomsday Clock
Tarantula
One and All
Drum + Fife
Freak
Panopticon
Run2Me
Being Beige
The Celestials
Superchrist
Owata
Widow Wake My Mind
Solara
GLOW

songs that should have been singles: Tom Tom, A Stitch in Time, Tiberius, Monuments, Dorian.

 
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Old 08-24-2018, 12:53 AM   #33
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That's the Way
Tarantula
The Celestials
Drum + Fife
Being Beige
Panopticon
One and All
Superchrist
Doomsday Clock
GLOW
Freak
Owata
Solara
Run2Me
Widow Wake My Mind

 
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Old 08-24-2018, 01:18 AM   #34
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Superchrist
Doomsday Clock
Tarantula
Freak
That's The Way
Panopticon
Solara
Run2Me
One and All
Being Beige
GLOW
The Celestials
Drum + Fife
Widow Wake My Mind
Owata

 
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Old 08-24-2018, 02:07 AM   #35
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Ones I quite like/there’s elements I like -

That’s The Way
Drum & Fife
Superchrist
Tarantula
The Celestials
Doomsday Clock
Panopticon
One & All
Freak

Songs that I lump into one catagory, there’s not much to tell them apart -

Solara/GLOW/FOL

Failed experiments, flat out bad/unlistenable -

Being Beige
Owata
Run2Me
Widow Wake My Mind

 
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Old 08-24-2018, 11:25 AM   #36
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Tracks aren't really "singles" anymore, unless they are being released on their own in a format, or before an album release.

Releasing something as a "single" after it's appeared on an album (and on Spotify / iTunes etc) doesn't really mean anything these days. It's just the record company pushing a track to radio to promote the parent album (as they always were).

I miss the days of CD singles, where you'd get the song and three b-sides. That's how we got the likes of Starla, Plume, Obscured, etc.

Question is, how would someone as prolific as early 90s Billy release that much music in the 2010s? Especially given the still present album/tour/album cycle that exists for most artists. Do bands have stockpiles of songs that they just don't release at all, given the limitations of the formats?

And if albums can be released digitally / streaming, with presumably no time restriction, why are they mostly still 40 - 50 minutes long? Why can't an album be like a playlist, 2 - 3 hours long?

Anyway. I like FOL and Superchrist and GLOW and Owata and

 
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Old 08-24-2018, 11:47 AM   #37
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Its crazy how pronounced the drop off is after Zwan. You can assemble 2 solid Zwan albums from outtakes alone, and even the album itself is pretty great.

Reading the list of pumpkins songs since 2007... woof.

 
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Old 08-24-2018, 09:22 PM   #38
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Yeah zwan >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> anything called “sp” therafter

Even just resurrecting the name sp was a cynical/cowardly fucken cash grab, in itself

Bill decided to stop working, basically

 
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Old 08-24-2018, 09:36 PM   #39
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no actually rehiring jimmy for machina was where he went wrong

house of ass has opened my eyes

 
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Old 08-24-2018, 09:52 PM   #40
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glad 2 b of service, shy gentle Serbian felon.

 
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Old 08-24-2018, 10:52 PM   #41
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My SP 2.0 album...

The Zeitgeist Of Oceania, An Elegy By Kaleidyscope

01 Superchrist
02 Doomsday Clock
03 The Fellowship
04 Quasar
05 Astral Planes
06 Monuments
07 Panopticon
08 United States
09 Inkless
10 Tarantula
11 One And All
12 Pale Horse
13 Bleeding The Orchid
14 Tiberius


I think it works quite well and actually flows nicely. Give it a chance.

Last edited by MyKeyZ : 08-25-2018 at 02:53 AM.

 
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Old 08-24-2018, 11:39 PM   #42
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1. That's the way my love is
2. doomsday clock (transformers soundtrack, im bending the rules)
3. glow
4. solara
5. the celestials

I recently saw a top 10 list of sp songs and tarantula made that writers list. Like of all sp songs... I don't get it. When I listen to zeitgeist I always go first 5, united states and neverlong, and last 2. I literally had to pull tarantula up to remember what it sounds like.

 
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Old 08-25-2018, 12:21 AM   #43
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Tarantula is the best Zeitgeist song by a long bit IMO

but it wouldn't even make my top 50

 
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Old 08-25-2018, 04:38 AM   #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MyKeyZ View Post
My SP 2.0 album...

The Zeitgeist Of Oceania, An Elegy By Kaleidyscope

01 Superchrist
02 Doomsday Clock
03 The Fellowship
04 Quasar
05 Astral Planes
06 Monuments
07 Panopticon
08 United States
09 Inkless
10 Tarantula
11 One And All
12 Pale Horse
13 Bleeding The Orchid
14 Tiberius


I think it works quite well and actually flows nicely. Give it a chance.
good job, dude

 
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Old 08-25-2018, 05:08 AM   #45
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Originally Posted by coolstorybro View Post
good job, dude
Thanks, I think I could actually listen to this playlist often where as the individual albums not so much

I wanted it to flow musically, but also work lyrically. I had a couple of other songs, but they just didn't work with the rest. I had Anti-Hero in place of One And All at first. Tom Tom and FOL were also possibilities that in the end didn't work. I think lyrically there's a story still.

Last edited by MyKeyZ : 08-25-2018 at 05:33 AM.

 
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Old 08-25-2018, 02:42 PM   #46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MyKeyZ View Post
My SP 2.0 album...

The Zeitgeist Of Oceania, An Elegy By Kaleidyscope

01 Superchrist
02 Doomsday Clock
03 The Fellowship
04 Quasar
05 Astral Planes
06 Monuments
07 Panopticon
08 United States
09 Inkless
10 Tarantula
11 One And All
12 Pale Horse
13 Bleeding The Orchid
14 Tiberius


I think it works quite well and actually flows nicely. Give it a chance.

Hey hey, someone else who likes Quasar and Inkless! I thought I was the only one here, lol. I dont care what anyone says; those two songs still sound cool as fuck to me.

Yeah if I was crafting an album out of SP2 material, Id probably go with the following.

1. Quasar
2. Tiberius
3. Tarantula
4. Drum + Fife
5. Starz
6. Sunkissed
7. Come On, Lets Go
8. United States
9. Again, Again, Again
10. A Stitch in Time
11. The Chimera
12. Stellar
13. Inkless
14. Zeitgeist

And Id probably have Solara and A Song for a Son as b-sides/bonus tracks.

 
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Old 08-25-2018, 07:06 PM   #47
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If I'm just listing my 2007-onward preferences.

That's The Way
Tarantula
Zeitgeist
Tom Tom
Spangled (don't understand the hate for this one)
Quasar
Pale Horse
Dorian
Drum + Fife
Tiberius
One and All

 
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Old 08-25-2018, 11:41 PM   #48
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Originally Posted by redbreegull View Post
Tarantula is the best Zeitgeist song by a long bit IMO

but it wouldn't even make my top 50
Even though I'm not into the song, I can understanding someone feeling this way, totally, redbreegull. I went looking for the old article- it's not pitchfork or rollingstone but it's a top page on google site: https://www.loudersound.com/features...pumpkins-songs

#8 of all time? are people so desperate for clicks that they use that as click bait? Well shit, I just linked it

 
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Old 08-26-2018, 07:19 PM   #49
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Originally Posted by rawkstar View Post
Everyone hates Owata that much? I get that the lyrics aren't the greatest but I always liked this song, particularly the live versions w/ Jimmy.
the lyrics are merely the rotten cherry on top of owata's shit cake

 
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Old 08-27-2018, 10:20 AM   #50
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I don't hate Owata but it feels very poppy to me.

 
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Old 08-27-2018, 10:33 AM   #51
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\_(ツ)_/

 
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Old 08-27-2018, 10:51 AM   #52
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Siva
Rhinocerous
Drown
Cherub Rock
Today
Disarm
Bullet With Butterfly Wings
1979
Zero
Tonight, Tonight
Eye
Ava Adore
Perfect
The Everlasting Gaze
Stand Inside Your Love
Try, Try, Try
Real Love
Untitled

vs

That's the Way
Tarantula
The Celestials
Drum + Fife
Being Beige
Panopticon
One and All
Superchrist
Doomsday Clock
GLOW
Freak
Owata
Solara
Run2Me
Widow Wake My Mind



Wow. No wonder Billy gets all pissy and defensive about SP2 stuff, the drop in quality compared to SP1 is absolutely astounding and he knows it.

 
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Old 08-27-2018, 11:30 AM   #53
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I think he knows it but he probably reassures himself that all the new stuff is actually good and the only reason so much of it has flopped is because of fickle fans and mediocre performers collaborating with him.

But it is telling that he's pulled Zeitgeist off of iTunes.

 
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Old 08-27-2018, 11:31 AM   #54
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he's swimming in the Nile.

 
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Old 08-27-2018, 12:58 PM   #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zer0 Hour View Post
Hey hey, someone else who likes Quasar and Inkless! I thought I was the only one here, lol. I dont care what anyone says; those two songs still sound cool as fuck to me.

Yeah if I was crafting an album out of SP2 material, Id probably go with the following.

1. Quasar
2. Tiberius
3. Tarantula
4. Drum + Fife
5. Starz
6. Sunkissed
7. Come On, Lets Go
8. United States
9. Again, Again, Again
10. A Stitch in Time
11. The Chimera
12. Stellar
13. Inkless
14. Zeitgeist

And Id probably have Solara and A Song for a Son as b-sides/bonus tracks.
Yeah, just listened to Inkless. Not bad. I think its saving grace is that it doesn't go on too long. I think lots of the Oceania songs are killed by just beating the idea for too many extra minutes.

Anyways, one of the odd problems I have with Oceania, and it seems from this thread like it is a problem with SP2 stuff in general, is that I simply can't remember what most of the songs sound like. They are not ear worms. Some of the ZG and MTAE songs I can actually recall without looking them up (Starz, That's the Way, Being Beige, Drum and Fife). But not Oceania (or Biergarten by colonoscope). Maybe that is the album's problem, it sounds too safe, too generic, too forgettable.

 
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Old 08-27-2018, 01:42 PM   #56
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Originally Posted by NovaFritz View Post
Yeah, just listened to Inkless. Not bad. I think its saving grace is that it doesn't go on too long. I think lots of the Oceania songs are killed by just beating the idea for too many extra minutes.

Anyways, one of the odd problems I have with Oceania, and it seems from this thread like it is a problem with SP2 stuff in general, is that I simply can't remember what most of the songs sound like. They are not ear worms. Some of the ZG and MTAE songs I can actually recall without looking them up (Starz, That's the Way, Being Beige, Drum and Fife). But not Oceania (or Biergarten by colonoscope). Maybe that is the album's problem, it sounds too safe, too generic, too forgettable.
Hahaha that's great. I'm going to refer to TbK that way now.

As for Oceania... Yeah, I go agree with you a bit on that front; the songs are competent enough but many are forgettable. But I still like it better overall than Zeitgeist, even without Jimmy's amazing drumming. Inkless almost feels like a classic Pumpkins tune to me with that main riff, and the vocals and lyrics are strong overall. I think the album starts and ends strong, it's just that middle section that makes it kind of drag... Billy takes a hard left turn into some unusual territory and the results are mixed at best. Pinwheels starts out like an attempt at a Who song and then turns into a slower acoustic ballad. I like the track but it feels under developed; like it's building to something and never quite gets to the climax. And the Oceania (the song) is one of Corgan's weakest attempts at an epic, because again, it feels like it's building up to something and never gets there.

Still, I'd take ANY song on Oceania over For God and Country. I fucking hate that song so much. And I feel like the lyrics for songs like That's the Way and Bring the Light ruin what otherwise would be good songs.

 
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