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Old 08-12-2018, 02:18 AM   #121
redbreegull
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Originally Posted by houseofglass11 View Post
The albums definitely do not sound like each other. The most identifiable thing about the band is Billyís voice. Each album is very different. Weíve been through this.
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Old 08-12-2018, 02:19 AM   #122
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seriously listen to more music dude. there are bands who actually sound like "literally" different bands on different albums. SP is not one of them

 
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Old 08-12-2018, 02:37 AM   #123
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The albums are all very different. I’m beginning to think you have a developmental disorder.

 
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Old 08-12-2018, 02:55 AM   #124
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They are different but have an extremely recognizable common factor to all of them. The differences are mostly aesthetic. Billy's songwriting never changes that much. Again, I think maybe you just haven't exposed yourself to enough music. SP does have a unique quality to each album, but not to a degree that I would consider unusual or spectacular or anything. The guitar playing on Adore is very similar to Gish despite the large difference in sonic texture and mood. Not sure if you realize this or not.

 
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Old 08-12-2018, 02:57 AM   #125
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I’ve listened to plenty of music m8. What guitar playing on Adore is similar to Gish? Aside from maybe the mellow songs I don’t see it.

 
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Old 08-12-2018, 03:00 AM   #126
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then you haven't listened to plenty of music m8 cause I've been playing guitar over half my life and his style hardly changes at all. He uses the same guitar tropes, the same techniques over and over on every album. what makes each SP album different is the "aesthetic" of the music.... the tones he crafts, the moods he goes for. Gish is psychedelic, Adore is like goth/electronic, MCIS is some songs are metal and some are folk... but his style is like the fuckin same on every album.

 
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Old 08-12-2018, 03:07 AM   #127
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Interesting because I’ve played guitar over half my life too. What you’ve said is a complete contradiction. How can his style be the same if the genre references of each album are different? Yeah it’s the same player but he adopted different techniques each album. He dismantled his whole rig after MCIS to try and do something different on Adore.

 
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Old 08-12-2018, 03:08 AM   #128
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Interesting because Iíve played guitar over half my life too. What youíve said is a complete contradiction. How can his style be the same if the genre references of each album are different? Yeah itís the same player but he adopted different techniques each album. He dismantled his whole rig after MCIS to try and do something different on Adore.
troll

 
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Old 08-12-2018, 03:09 AM   #129
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troll hard or go home house of ass. I think it's time for the latter, your mom baked a fish

 
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Old 08-12-2018, 03:10 AM   #130
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No you just talked yourself up your own ass. Checkm8

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Old 08-12-2018, 03:10 AM   #131
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troll

 
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Old 08-12-2018, 03:11 AM   #132
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So...that resurgence, eh guys?

 
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Old 08-12-2018, 03:13 AM   #133
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they will definitely continue playing together, but I don't know if we will ever see shows of this magnitude again.

maybe for the 40th anniversary

 
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Old 08-12-2018, 07:02 AM   #134
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Originally Posted by redbreegull View Post
they will definitely continue playing together, but I don't know if we will ever see shows of this magnitude again.

maybe for the 40th anniversary
with ticket prices ranging from $10000 dollars for the nosebleeds and close to a million for the premium spots

 
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Old 08-12-2018, 07:02 AM   #135
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Originally Posted by redbreegull View Post
then you haven't listened to plenty of music m8 cause I've been playing guitar over half my life and his style hardly changes at all. He uses the same guitar tropes, the same techniques over and over on every album.
What techniques are you talking about?

 
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Old 08-12-2018, 02:08 PM   #136
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Interesting because I’ve played guitar over half my life too. What you’ve said is a complete contradiction. How can his style be the same if the genre references of each album are different?
Genre references mean very little in this context. Ever watch a Stanley Kubrick film? 2001, Full Metal Jacket, the shining, and Eyes wide shut are all totally different genres but all inherently Kubrick. It's really the same with Smashing Pumpkins records at least up through the Machina era. I mean look at Rhinoceros and Cherub rock and how they're played. Look at Rhino's chorus, Cherub rock, and Stand inside your love's chorus. How many times does Corgan use the G - D - A combination in his songs or the Em - C - G combinations? He absolutely uses the same guitar and chord building techniques repeatedly across albums that form the emotional aesthetic of songs up thru Machina. The reason the material blows so much post Machina is because he abandoned many of his own song writing aesthetics or has failed to reinvent his playing in a way that was as effective.

 
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Old 08-12-2018, 02:26 PM   #137
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What techniques are you talking about?
some prominent examples ******* the heavy use of sliding on octaves using the lowest string as a drone (e.g. Tristessa, Rhino, Cherub Rock, Hummer, Silverfuck, 1979, Porcelina, SIYL, XYU, etc.), or playing a melody or harmony on the A, D, and G strings and using the string directly below the fretted strings as a drone (e.g. Starla, Drown, 1979). Add some serious bends and a second guitar doing even more harmonies on those octaves or droning harmonies (like in Siva or Hummer or Panopticon), and you are well on your way to capturing Billy's signature sound.

He also loves variations on the "Paradise City" riff and reuses it on almost every album (I Am One, Ava Adore, Fuck You, Hello Kitty Kat).

The vast majority of Bill's songs are in either standard tuning or standard down a half step, or drop D.

He loves using guitar as an orchestral instrument behind the rhythm guitars as well. In the early days he recorded a lot of feedback for this and then from MCIS onward it was heavy use of ebow.

When playing distorted, he almost always goes for a sound where the gain is all the way up and the guitars create a squelched up wall of sound, kind of like a more punchy version of what Sabbath or Hendrix pioneered.

His leads are amazing but he is a fairly predictable sounding lead guitarist and likes to sort of follow the same sorts of patterns through pentatonic and major scales with, again, a LOT of bending and vibrato combined with high gain and compression. He also loves to double track lead guitars in a way where the harmonies almost blend into sounding like single notes with an effect, like Boston or Queen (Ava Adore, Bring the Light).

When playing acoustic, he mostly just plays straight chords and doesn't do anything too complicated like Disarm, Tonight Tonight, Once Upon a Time, etc. His finger picking can mostly be accomplished with three fingers doing slight variations on a 1-3-2 pattern, like Tonight Tonight. Add sliding up and down on one note and using some other strings as open drones, and you're back to the druggy, psychedelic, bendy sounds that basically form the foundation of SP's unique guitar sound.

 
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Old 08-12-2018, 02:32 PM   #138
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If you want an example of Billy really moving outside his comfort zone and doing something more experimental for him on guitar, Behold! The Nightmare is probably the best example. But songs like that are in the minority. Adore in general probably has less in common with any of their other albums, and that mostly has to do with him pulling the guitar back and allowing other elements to become more prominent.

bottom line is that SP was never a band who drastically change their sound on every album. They change the aesthetic and the mood and the atmosphere, similar to bands like The Beatles did. but Billy's playing has been fairly similar throughout his career. It's not like Gish is psych rock and SD is reggae and MCIS is speed metal and Adore is tin pan alley broadway fusion. They sound pretty similar in the big picture, and most of SP's music is instantly identifiable as SP.

Last edited by redbreegull : 08-12-2018 at 02:38 PM.

 
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Old 08-12-2018, 02:35 PM   #139
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Genre references mean very little in this context. Ever watch a Stanley Kubrick film? 2001, Full Metal Jacket, the shining, and Eyes wide shut are all totally different genres but all inherently Kubrick. It's really the same with Smashing Pumpkins records at least up through the Machina era. I mean look at Rhinoceros and Cherub rock and how they're played. Look at Rhino's chorus, Cherub rock, and Stand inside your love's chorus. How many times does Corgan use the G - D - A combination in his songs or the Em - C - G combinations? He absolutely uses the same guitar and chord building techniques repeatedly across albums that form the emotional aesthetic of songs up thru Machina. The reason the material blows so much post Machina is because he abandoned many of his own song writing aesthetics or has failed to reinvent his playing in a way that was as effective.
He did move away from some things post 2000, like in general he has played less melodic leads and for a long time tried to ditch the SD sound, but MSOTS still is basically just a really underwhelming SP1 album in terms of style. TFE is the one thing he has done in the last 20 years that has really pushed his guitar playing in a different direction. Zeitgeist is mostly in the style of the heavy MCIS songs, Oceania tries to recapture the bendy psychedelic/shoegaze alt rock of their earlier career. His acoustic style got a lot better in the Zwan/Chicago kid days though, and hearing him successfully pull off a folk style in a bigger context than like the TT single was pretty cool.

 
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Old 08-12-2018, 02:58 PM   #140
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Originally Posted by redbreegull
bottom line is that SP was never a band who drastically change their sound on every album. They change the aesthetic and the mood and the atmosphere
I back this 100%. The production/instrumentation/recording techniques change, but the harmonic and melodic content is largely the same.

You can hear some progression in his writing abilities, something like For Martha, Tonight Tonight, Nitemare, etc.. you wouldn't hear on Gish, but a lot of things you hear on gish you are indeed hearing on Adore, Machina, etc.

Shame for example, give that a Gish style production (suffer, crush, snail) and you'd have a song that'd fit comfortably on that album.

They're not the kind of band that had a jump from something like ok computer to kid a, which was almost a complete restructuring of everything they'd built up to skill wise at that point.

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Old 08-12-2018, 03:04 PM   #141
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Shame for example, give that a Gish style production (suffer, crush, snail) and you'd have a song that'd fir comfortable on that album.
that is a great connection I had never even made

 
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Old 08-21-2018, 02:52 PM   #142
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Itís really not a comeback. Itís just a random tour. A true comeback would be having a hit single and hit album neither of which are probable for the band ever again.
I've head Solara on the radio in the last few months more than all of their other songs combined in the last few years. Not sure if that's an indicator of success, but it seems popular.

 
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Old 08-21-2018, 02:57 PM   #143
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Yeah, I'm curious what the consensus from casual fans is on Solara. I mean, most of the diehards like us seem to either hate it or think it's just kinda average (I'm in the latter group), I think because we know what Billy is capable of (or was) and Solara doesn't even scratch the surface of that. But maybe to people who are just like, "Oh, the Smashing Pumpkins? I remember them. Are they still together?", Solara is actually pretty good? I don't know.

 
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Old 08-23-2018, 12:39 AM   #144
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Just to note, Billy indicated that we would "see the bat strat again" if he "gets to do the tour he wants to do" or something very much along those lines, which to me indicates he's still got the urge to do a true album-specific tour. That was the supposed plan before Jimmy left in 2008.

But I don't think they'll fill an arena again, even with a Siamese Dream tour.

 
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Old 08-23-2018, 12:59 AM   #145
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The audience reaction to Solara live based on all of the YouTube videos I've seen seems to be very positive, lots of applause. I remember the Monuments stuff getting crickets when I saw them live in 2015.

I actually heard it on KROQ once a few weeks ago, not again since, but I don't recall hearing anything from Monuments even once. The music video has hit 1.1 million views. I think it's a fun rocker, kind of middle of the road, but I've grown to like it more than anything on Monuments. Something better could have gotten more radio play, but I think this has accomplished the goal of being palatable to the casual fans.

When it comes to future tours, there is arena potential for Mellon Collie and Siamese Dream tours, but they just have to space them out to be every few years. After they do those though like I've said, a D'arcy reunion will be the only ticket to arenas again.

When it comes to what's next, I'm thinking they'll release the new album in November for the holidays, and hopefully do some club shows with different setlists to promote it.

 
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Old 08-23-2018, 01:13 AM   #146
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The audience reaction to Solara live based on all of the YouTube videos I've seen seems to be very positive, lots of applause. I remember the Monuments stuff getting crickets when I saw them live in 2015.

I actually heard it on KROQ once a few weeks ago, not again since, but I don't recall hearing anything from Monuments even once. The music video has hit 1.1 million views. I think it's a fun rocker, kind of middle of the road, but I've grown to like it more than anything on Monuments. Something better could have gotten more radio play, but I think this has accomplished the goal of being palatable to the casual fans.

When it comes to future tours, there is arena potential for Mellon Collie and Siamese Dream tours, but they just have to space them out to be every few years. After they do those though like I've said, a D'arcy reunion will be the only ticket to arenas again.

When it comes to what's next, I'm thinking they'll release the new album in November for the holidays, and hopefully do some club shows with different setlists to promote it.
I think that if they put out an album with a few hit songs. Legitimate hits, they could tour that at arenas because it would be in combination of fresh song hype with everyone enjoying the nostalgia live setting. But I don't see that kind of success happening.

 
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Old 08-23-2018, 01:34 AM   #147
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I think that if they put out an album with a few hit songs. Legitimate hits, they could tour that at arenas because it would be in combination of fresh song hype with everyone enjoying the nostalgia live setting. But I don't see that kind of success happening.
Radio hits would do it, but I just doubt it, it's been far too long since Billy's written a hit. Also while this is his most legitimate lineup since 2000, he does not have the entire original lineup to sell an album off of. You can't put out an album with the original lineup on the cover. Something like that could elevate material that isn't quite the classic stuff commercially, the novelty factor.

Foo Fighters are the only 90's band these days that have guaranteed rock radio hits every album, Green Day too to an extent, but both of those bands stayed together and have been fairly consistent churning out hits, outside of the few years before American Idiot. It took Weezer incorporating modern pop elements and covering Africa to get back on the radio.

 
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Old 08-23-2018, 03:28 AM   #148
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Foo Fighters are the only 90's band these days that have guaranteed rock radio hits every album, Green Day too to an extent, but both of those bands stayed together and have been fairly consistent churning out hits, outside of the few years before American Idiot. It took Weezer incorporating modern pop elements and covering Africa to get back on the radio.
Smart stuff here -- and the subtext, I think, is that it's too late for Billy & co. to go back and follow this path. Foo Fighters, Green Day, and Weezer all have a simple enough template for their songs that they can make something fun even while the artistic quality declines. The Pumpkins, for better or worse, aren't that lucky. You can't press a button on a Big Muff that reads "dynamic angst rock journey."

 
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Old 08-23-2018, 04:00 AM   #149
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Getting a headline slot at a major festival next year would be good for the public image. They headlined Reading 2007 alongside Red Hot Chili Peppers.

 
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Old 08-23-2018, 04:24 AM   #150
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The audience reaction to Solara live based on all of the YouTube videos I've seen seems to be very positive, lots of applause.
people are just happy the show is finally over.

 
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