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12-09-2015, 01:11 PM | #121 |
Ownz
Posts: 879
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Except Zeitgeist-Oceania are no better?
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12-09-2015, 01:17 PM | #122 |
Pledge
Posts: 149
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12-09-2015, 03:39 PM | #123 | |
Pledge
Location: within God's love.
Posts: 73
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I think most music critics have always snubbed his lyrics as being too "high school diary"/"teen poetry". Having discovered the pumpkins when I was in high school, it never really bothered me. But yeah, on MTAE, the lyrics seemed to have devolved even further. |
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12-09-2015, 04:02 PM | #124 |
Apocalyptic Poster
Location: SP, Sao Paulo - Brazil
Posts: 4,872
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Adore
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12-09-2015, 04:14 PM | #125 |
dumb
Location: $8.6 million embezzled funds
Posts: 11,365
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I think one of the reasons for MTAE's market failure was the cover art...all the other SP albums at least said 'smashing pumpkins' on them and looked somewhat inviting. MTAE just looks like a brick wall with black smoke
When I'm exploring new music and trying to get into a band I never really listen to albums with weird abstract cover art |
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12-09-2015, 05:40 PM | #126 |
Ownz
Posts: 879
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12-09-2015, 06:13 PM | #127 | |
Minion of Satan
Location: the institute
Posts: 6,421
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12-09-2015, 06:15 PM | #128 |
dumb
Location: $8.6 million embezzled funds
Posts: 11,365
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because you are because you are because you are because you are because you are because you are My local record store had it and Look to the Sky available (this was in August). I bought look to the sky. Went back last week, MTAE was still there |
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12-09-2015, 06:17 PM | #129 |
Minion of Satan
Location: the institute
Posts: 6,421
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12-09-2015, 06:35 PM | #130 |
Apocalyptic Poster
Location: SP, Sao Paulo - Brazil
Posts: 4,872
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apparently Billy is in Nashville at the moment, that's where Howard's studio is based...
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12-09-2015, 06:51 PM | #131 | |
Demi-God
Posts: 412
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To hear him say in interviews that he feels his songs are so strong, and to also hear him vocalize his displeasure that no artists cover/have hits with his material cuz he feels that others would have hits with his songs really bothers me cuz the guy does have talent and can write a good lyric but doesn't have to ability to self-edit himself, and it seems that when he does write a good lyric that it's almost by accident unfortunately cuz it happens so rarely. The only real songwriting 'technique' I've ever heard him talk about is locking himself in a room to vomit up lyrics. And as expected most of those vomited up lyrics are nonsensical and teen poetry-esque with very little substance or meaning to them. It'd be awesome to see him grow as an artist and to start utilizing songwriting tools such as using metaphors, word association and prosody into his music, but I'm a realist and know that if he hasn't done it by now, at almost 50, then it's not gonna happen. |
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12-09-2015, 06:57 PM | #132 | |
Ownz
Posts: 879
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Perhaps there is a reason Because You Are didn't make it on to the album... |
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12-09-2015, 07:30 PM | #133 |
Just Hook it to My Veins!
Location: N3t4Euh Haus
Posts: 32,749
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seriously I don't know what planet some of you are from. his lyricism is one of the most praised elements of the original band. and jelly blossom claiming his lyrics haven't changed but have always been as bad as they are now? wtf?
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12-09-2015, 07:46 PM | #134 | ||
Demi-God
Posts: 412
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Can you tell me the lyrical meaning behind either "Rhinoceros" or "Tiberius"? Can you tell me why either song was given its respective title and how each title actually fits in with each song? Please kindly elaborate as to what exactly a 'mustard lie' is and how a given listener is supposed to relate with that. |
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12-09-2015, 08:47 PM | #135 |
dumb
Location: $8.6 million embezzled funds
Posts: 11,365
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I mean, the cracks are starting to show. The fact that he wrote that at all is kind of bothersome
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12-09-2015, 08:50 PM | #136 | |
Pledge
Location: within God's love.
Posts: 73
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If he wanted everyone to know exactly what he meant by his lyrics, he might as well just write a book instead. Because I don't consider myself a knowledgable critic of the written word (books, music, poetry), I've personally never had an issue with the content of BC's lyrics... until Zeitgeist forward. From that point, something about the lyrics just feels... uninspired maybe? ...less rich/coded with imagery like you would find on Siamese Dream or MCIS... maybe even lazy. Last edited by jparker800 : 12-09-2015 at 09:18 PM. |
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12-09-2015, 08:56 PM | #137 | ||||||||||||
dumb
Location: $8.6 million embezzled funds
Posts: 11,365
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Plus I've listened to the early stuff more, so I've thought more about the lyrics and had more time to feel ways about them. Honestly, I can't even sing the last few examples in my head or anything because I just can't get into the song as a whole enough to give a fuck Also his new singing style is grating to listen to. Especially when mixed so loud. The song titles and some lyrical elements have a wider range of quality to them now. Shit like Baby Let's Rock! or I will be special K wouldn't happen in the 90s. Last edited by Ram27 : 12-09-2015 at 09:02 PM. |
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12-09-2015, 09:17 PM | #138 |
Pledge
Location: within God's love.
Posts: 73
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12-09-2015, 09:26 PM | #139 |
Pledge
Posts: 129
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What doesn't kill you only makes your book longer.
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12-09-2015, 09:35 PM | #140 |
Apocalyptic Poster
Location: SP, Sao Paulo - Brazil
Posts: 4,872
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Oh my god, open your eyes to these mustard lies!
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12-09-2015, 10:14 PM | #141 | |
Just Hook it to My Veins!
Location: N3t4Euh Haus
Posts: 32,749
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I do not get your breakdown of what makes a "good lyric" at all. Concrete narratives with no nuance or enigma are what makes good lyrics? I mean have you ever read any poetry? Something being abstract does not mean it doesn't have meaning. Corgan's ability in the old days to conjure emotional reaction from abstract imagery and word association is fucking amazing. The guy was a master. You sound like someone looking at a Picasso and complaining that the people aren't painted anatomically correctly. |
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12-09-2015, 10:16 PM | #142 |
Just Hook it to My Veins!
Location: N3t4Euh Haus
Posts: 32,749
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I mean please, give me some examples of who you consider a meaningful lyricist because you seem to be saying good lyrics should be straight prose.
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12-09-2015, 10:28 PM | #143 | ||||
Demi-God
Posts: 412
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If as a listener If I have to go to great efforts to make interpretations of his song titles and lyrics then why even listen to him? (That's a rhetorical question) Quote:
All of which (and countless others) have written great lyrics that have conveyed ideas/thoughts/emotions without having to do so by writing a book. Quote:
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Most of his lyrics mean nothing. A lot are travelogues that give random pictures of places yet don't actually fit together to tell a cohesive story or a complete thought. Last edited by Jelly Blossom : 12-09-2015 at 10:34 PM. |
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12-09-2015, 10:37 PM | #144 | |
Demi-God
Posts: 412
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Perhaps you don't know what any of those lyrical techniques or tools are? |
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12-09-2015, 10:38 PM | #145 | |
Apocalyptic Poster
Location: SP, Sao Paulo - Brazil
Posts: 4,872
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I remember a interview - Adore era - where he was "asked" about his mother's death and how Adore was about it and he strongly denied it.... just because he didn't want to talk about it. |
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12-09-2015, 10:38 PM | #146 |
Banned
Posts: 21,169
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His lyrics have always been pretty hit and miss, but it's never really mattered to me cause the sound and delivery was cool.
But it's kind of got to a point recently where the lyrics are so lazy and slapped together that it sometimes detracts from the songs (GOD, RIGHT ON!), which have actually been on a quality upswing since the Teargarden debacle. For what it's worth I actually like a bunch of Monuments and the lyrics don't bug me too much, but obviously the songs would be a lot better with a little more lyrical meat on the bones. |
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12-09-2015, 10:42 PM | #147 | |
Demi-God
Posts: 412
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Deep layered meanings are usually done by using metaphors and similes, not by connecting random thoughts in a travelogue sense where you're in the Appellation mountains in one line then swimming in the Hawaiian beaches the next line. That's how Billy writes his lyrics much of the time. Don't get me wrong, there are exceptions from time to time. I've personally stated that "Drum + Fife" is the only redeeming lyric on MTAE, and I've always liked "Stand Inside Your Love". But much of the rest of his lyrics are for the most part just gibberish. |
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12-09-2015, 10:45 PM | #148 |
Demi-God
Posts: 412
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Then please kindly explain, in detail and line by line, the lyrical meaning of songs such as "Rhinoceros", "Untitled", "Hummer", "Tiberius" and "Doomsday Clock".
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12-09-2015, 10:48 PM | #149 | ||
Demi-God
Posts: 412
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And for the record, I don't think Billy has the talent to write quality lyrics. A good line or verse here or there, maybe even enough to scrap together a good lyric for a full song occasionally but definitely not for a full album. |
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12-09-2015, 11:00 PM | #150 | |||
Pledge
Location: within God's love.
Posts: 73
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As I said, I'm not qualified to judge art critically, just personally. You sound like you have a much keener sense of good lyrical form or word usage. |
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