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06-29-2018, 09:57 PM | #61 | |
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Location: I'm a quitter. I come from a long line of quitters. It's amazing I'm here at all.
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"sex happened - women are this - society is this -ergo that's how it went down." that I am disagreeing with, you can't put women in one pot, nor people in general, nor sexual encounters that weren't yours, and that is precisely what you were doing. me completely disagreeing with what you are arguing here is not "trying to make you look bad" - I can simply disagree with your comments, can I not? or does that conflate with all women who see similar problems in general have to have the same perspective and opinion, and the same sexual experiences on top of it... |
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06-29-2018, 09:58 PM | #62 |
Braindead
Location: PROWLING THE BADLANDS
Posts: 17,399
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NO GO LOOK AT PUSSY PHOTOS
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06-29-2018, 09:59 PM | #63 | |
Socialphobic
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06-29-2018, 10:14 PM | #64 |
Braindead
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Nekko Case complained that the groupie thing doesn't work for women, "No ladies in bands don't get ANY action"
is it cultural, is it natural, is it bad, that even if you are adored for your talent as a woman you may still rely on your physical self where as men can pretty much be liberated from it |
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06-29-2018, 10:19 PM | #65 |
Banned
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I kind of side with Labelle on this one.
I mean the guy goes around having staff hand out laminates with women sucking dick in KISS makeup (as if it's a Willy Wonka golden ticket) to hot girls in the audience and then he has em line up backstage like a meat-market to then get carded and then presuming they're at least 18, Maynard struts in and takes his pick? (How cheap would it feel to the women who don't get picked?) Jeeze, I know there's nothing illegal about it but he obviously just sees women as an object to fuck. I suppose it reflects worse on the women themselves. Just willing to give themselves up for a cheap fuck on a bus because the guy sings on some songs they like. Regardless of the situation, it doesn't seem like this Maynard guy has much of a moral compass. |
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06-29-2018, 10:23 PM | #66 |
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Location: I'm a quitter. I come from a long line of quitters. It's amazing I'm here at all.
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if it is not a criticism of women, at all, then how come this post still includes that he is abusing his position to get sex - which includes abuse - which includes that the woman who says yes is on the receiving end of an abuse of at least power. what does that make her. what, exactly, does that make her? and with her I mean every single woman who ever went backstage and had sex with say Maynard.
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06-29-2018, 10:28 PM | #67 | |
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06-29-2018, 10:28 PM | #68 |
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06-29-2018, 10:46 PM | #69 | |
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But specifically because Maynard is famous he knows he can get away with it, if that's not abuse of power I don't know what is. |
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06-29-2018, 10:56 PM | #70 |
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At 36 I think lining up teenage girls to fuck, even if they want to (of course they want to fuck a rock star, they’re teenagers, they want to fuck because they have huge levels of sex hormones raging through their bodies and many lack the impulse control or cognitive skills, or emotional maturity to manage the effects of those hormones) is an abuse of power, I reckon.
36 year olds need to behave better than that, to avoid looking like sick assholes. The fact that he was messed up enough to treat adolescents basically like sex dolls because the law will allow it, makes me think this guy was definitely capable of forcing things to happen when girls changed their minds. He’s already objectified them; they weren’t human beings to him. But like, Led Zeppelin were no different , if you believe the tales about them. And then there’s the girl who lost her virginity at 14 to Gentle David Bowie. So, whatever. Nothing’s gonna change and half the girls who allow their bodies to be used by fully grown men never regret it so if it’s not hurting anyone then there are probably bigger fish to fry. But ...I guess the thing is..if they have become accustomed to something, and then one night a girl clearly isn’t that into it, isn’t kissing back, is silent and rigid, doesn’t remove any of her own clothing or try to touch back or anything, are these guys more likely tojust go ahead and complete the transaction anyway, because it was the sole purpose of the body being there in the first place? I kinda think yes, probably. And we probably should do something about that. And is that all linked back to embedded power imbalances between men and women in society at large, and subtle messages that are given to girls and women every day from multiple sources...? I mean...probably |
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06-29-2018, 11:01 PM | #71 |
Apocalyptic Poster
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Aren't these "groupies" just using the singer/musician as a sex object as well? They aren't going backstage expecting to have a long-term relationship with the person, are they?
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06-29-2018, 11:09 PM | #72 |
Banned
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Well put Vix. Also imagine, you're a 19 year old girl and you get a laminate that the famous singer wants to meet you, one could imagine that there's a naivety and maybe an insecurity or nervousness of not wanting to turn him down and decline.
People come to concerts to listen to some music and see a little entertainment. I've never understood this idea that women in the audience are desperate to fuck them. But you hear these stories from so many rock bands of roadies going out and cherry picking girls from the audience and most of the women oblige. I think a lot of it is probably pure pressure and just the utter surprise of the situation and not knowing how to react. Of course there's also the women that go out, flashing their tits and desperately hoping to get picked to fuck one of the band members. I was partying once with this chick who got picked to go backstage to bang one of the guys from Steel Panther and she did... I mean, really, Steel Panther does this shit and people oblige? I guess everyone wants to live that rock star fantasy, musicians and fans alike. |
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06-29-2018, 11:57 PM | #73 |
Just Hook it to My Veins!
Location: Donald Trump of Netphoria
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ur dad is a steel panther
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06-29-2018, 11:58 PM | #74 |
Just Hook it to My Veins!
Location: Donald Trump of Netphoria
Posts: 37,218
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STEAL PANTHER
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06-30-2018, 12:52 AM | #75 |
Socialphobic
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I want to officially apologize to both pavementtune and disco king. I was rude and obnoxious and poorly expressed my opinion on the subject matter coming across very differently than what I really intended.
Feel free to dismiss my stupid replies or dunk on me all you want, just know that I never meant to disregard your opinions as legitimate as I have great respect to both of you. |
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06-30-2018, 01:11 AM | #76 | |||||||
Minion of Satan
Location: Banned
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If that attraction is based on their perception of the person's status, maybe some could argue that that's shallow, but I'm not going to judge all people who don't restrict sex to couples in monogamous romantic relationships. If two adults of sound mind want to go at it because they met in a club bathroom, the only person being wronged in this situation is the person holding in their piss in the line waiting for the stall to open. Quote:
As in "unplanned." Like, you weren't planning on having casual sex, but you went on a date and you both decided then and there that you wanted it. Why is waking up in the morning with "finding a hookup" already scheduled on the agenda any worse than it being less calculated? Quote:
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The post said nothing about these women crying in the morning. I'm sure that there are maybe a couple other reasons a person may cry the morning after sex other than having had been taken advantage of, anyway. Quote:
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If they did want to fuck him, then I guess they'd do that. Assuming the account in the post to be true, he can "get away" with doing it because they want to fuck him. Which is the relevant factor here. Using the fact that somebody wants to fuck you to "get away" with fucking instead of getting the mockery I guess he's supposed to deserve from these people who apparently want to fuck him isn't really "abusing" anything. This argument pretty much boils down to "it's not fair to get a lot of action that I think people should be withholding from you just because you have attributes that make them want to engage in action with you." It's pretty much just shaming a person for being successful in engaging in consensual sexual encounters. It's analogous in form to slut-shaming. Not as pernicious as slut-shaming, because there isn't a history of men being oppressed for having lots of sex, but the basic formulation of the claim is the same. |
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06-30-2018, 01:16 AM | #77 | |
Minion of Satan
Location: Banned
Posts: 8,875
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For what it's worth, I didn't feel that you were being rude to me at all. I felt it was a fairly amicable disagreement. I don't necessarily equate debate and disagreement with acrimony. And, like, I'm pretty sure I speak for most of the user-base here when I say that you're one of the more friendly posters. |
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06-30-2018, 05:49 AM | #78 |
Apocalyptic Poster
Posts: 1,131
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Some of you are focusing way too much on individual women. No, obviously it's not impossible for a specific young woman to be sure of what she wants and to have consensual sex with a rock star. No one is claiming Maynard raped every single one of the fans he had sex with - if the woman doesn't feel like it was rape, then it wasn't. And yes, I agree that it's very possible for a woman not to feel that she was raped by him.
The issue here is that from Maynard's point of view, under the circumstances he so meticulously sets up, there is no real way for him to tell whether a fan is really consenting or not. And the worst part is that his system works like this by design to maximize the pool of women he can pick from. He might pick a woman who has been thinking "YES, I'M GOING TO HIT THAT SHIT" from the start; he might pick a girl who has been intentionally isolated from the friends she went to the concert with, and who is afraid of passing up an opportunity to interact with someone she admires. The way he isolates them from the people who would look after them is a HUGE red flag. The way he puts them in a place with other equally excited/unsure women is another - it serves to normalize the situation, to quell any thoughts of "OK, this is uncomfortable and really fucking weird" because everyone is apparently into it. It encourages them to disregard any sense of discomfort they might feel because they are now in competition for a "prize" that they don't want to lose. Nothing I'm saying is about taking their agency away. I don't think women are children. But manipulation happens, and coercion is about much more than just barely veiled threats. I'm not a woman, and I'm not stupid, and I have been manipulated/coerced before. There is no shame in being taken advantage of. And that's exactly what Maynard sets out to do with those women. |
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06-30-2018, 05:57 AM | #79 | |
Socialphobic
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06-30-2018, 01:22 PM | #80 | |
Minion of Satan
Location: the institute
Posts: 6,421
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i have been coerced too in the past… then i just tried to stay away from these situations that don't make me feel empowered. you live, you learn. |
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06-30-2018, 01:50 PM | #81 | |
Socialphobic
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06-30-2018, 02:12 PM | #82 |
Just Hook it to My Veins!
Location: Donald Trump of Netphoria
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06-30-2018, 02:19 PM | #83 | ||||
Minion of Satan
Location: Banned
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I think that the problem is that we're conflating motivations or reasons for why somebody may want to do something with restrictions on their ability to make a free choice. All action is guided by motivations, reasons, and incentives. If somebody makes an option appealing to me, it doesn't mean they tricked, manipulated, or coerced me into selecting that option. |
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06-30-2018, 02:27 PM | #84 | |
Apocalyptic Poster
Posts: 1,131
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Sometimes you're in an actual relationship, and years later, you look back and think, "That thing my partner or ex-partner did - it wasn't right, was it?" And often you can't and/or don't want to claim they raped you - after all, you even initiated sex sometimes - but in hindsight you can see how the person manipulated you. People can create an environment that doesn't encourage openness; they might be "hurt" and "rejected" when you don't feel the way they expected you to, and it's easier for you to just go along. Sometimes you don't even realize you're going along until later. Or they might approach you when you're lonely, when you are vulnerable, and you hope things will be different but then they are not. All of this can happen in a long-term relationship, and even more so in a casual encounter. Sometimes part of you wants something and another doesn't. Sometimes you undoubtedly want some sort of sexual encounter, but not ANY sort. And it's really shitty to prey on people's complex desires, to make them MORE complex than they need to be so you can obfuscate the whole issue and get what you want out of it. Consensual sex is a conversation. It is never about using someone as "a sex object", even when you're never seeing each other again. |
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06-30-2018, 03:22 PM | #85 | ||||
Apocalyptic Poster
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06-30-2018, 03:33 PM | #86 |
Socialphobic
Location: I’ve been trying to move to the Nordic countries for 5 years but the cost is astronomical to become an expatriate
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I don't mean this to be insulting, but by his own admission, DK is still relatively new to the human relationship experience. What you're posting about is nuance that takes experience to recognize.
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06-30-2018, 04:27 PM | #87 |
Just Hook it to My Veins!
Location: N3t4Euh Haus
Posts: 32,753
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Fuzzy doesn't really "get" or "not get" anything; he chooses stances based on how he thinks they enlargen his social capital or inflate his sense of self
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06-30-2018, 05:02 PM | #88 |
Minion of Satan
Location: the institute
Posts: 6,421
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"if you really loved me you would do it"
"all the cool kids do it" many exemples of coercion that are purely emotional and can make you do things that are not respectful to yourself and that you later regret. |
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06-30-2018, 05:03 PM | #89 |
Minion of Satan
Location: the institute
Posts: 6,421
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06-30-2018, 05:10 PM | #90 |
Virgo
Posts: 42,781
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yo what's up i'm a man
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