Why can't good songwriters continue to write good songs through their 40's and on?

fuzzyroes · 10-28-2015, 08:13 PM

It seems like once every good songwriter reaches about their mid 40's and on that they simply can't write a good song anymore. The examples are seemingly endless and it's a true rarity to find an odd exception to this rule.

So what is the deal? Do these guys get old and just stop caring about music? All of the older people I know in my life still love music so that can't be it. Is it just that these guys get pushed too hard and they burn out?

slunken · 10-28-2015, 08:34 PM

you're talking about singer/songwriters and not songwriters.

time to start checking those song credits.

Trotskilicious · 10-28-2015, 11:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by slunken

you're talking about singer/songwriters and not songwriters.

it's a dumb statement either way

myosis · 10-28-2015, 08:52 PM

there is sometimes a comeback of talent at 60 years of age

fuzzyroes · 10-28-2015, 08:54 PM

Touche, yes, singer songwriters. I suppose theres a bunch of old ass guys writing hits for pop artists and shit

The Omega Concern · 10-28-2015, 08:56 PM

Robert Plant has never really lost it.

slunken · 10-28-2015, 09:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Omega Concern

Robert Plant has never really lost it.

lmao

Elphenor · 10-28-2015, 09:20 PM

Great thread, Fuzzyroes. My answer is going to have to be The Smashing Pumpkins

noyen · 10-28-2015, 11:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fuzzyroes

It seems like once every good songwriter reaches about their mid 40's and on that they simply can't write a good song anymore. The examples are seemingly endless and it's a true rarity to find an odd exception to this rule.

So what is the deal? Do these guys get old and just stop caring about music? All of the older people I know in my life still love music so that can't be it. Is it just that these guys get pushed too hard and they burn out?

who the fuck are you talking about? mike ness? please start seemingly endless list.

Trotskilicious · 10-28-2015, 11:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by noyen

who the fuck are you talking about? mike ness? please start seemingly endless list.

it's just dumb trolling

fuzzyroes · 10-29-2015, 08:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by noyen

who the fuck are you talking about? mike ness? please start seemingly endless list.

Come on man, really? Pretty much every artist that was good in the 80's and 90's that are still putting out music.

It seems like the only exception to the rule is when the artist takes like 8-10 years to put out a new record, then it's usually pretty decent. Bands like Milencolin and Dinosaur Jr.. even GnR put out good comeback albums but even J Macis and Dino Jr are putting out lame crap now. Even innovators that created a genre like the Pixies can't write a good song anymore.

It seems that artists just get older and suddenly just don't care about putting passion into music anymore. I personally don't fucking get it. If I was lucky enough to have a career in music I'd pour everything I have into it.

Sonic brought up a good point about older people having more responsibilities, but these rock-star fucks have all the time in the world to pour their heart into their music. Are they all just that jaded?

noyen · 10-30-2015, 01:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fuzzyroes

Come on man, really? Pretty much every artist that was good in the 80's and 90's that are still putting out music.

It seems like the only exception to the rule is when the artist takes like 8-10 years to put out a new record, then it's usually pretty decent. Bands like Milencolin and Dinosaur Jr.. even GnR put out good comeback albums but even J Macis and Dino Jr are putting out lame crap now. Even innovators that created a genre like the Pixies can't write a good song anymore.

It seems that artists just get older and suddenly just don't care about putting passion into music anymore. I personally don't fucking get it. If I was lucky enough to have a career in music I'd pour everything I have into it.

Sonic brought up a good point about older people having more responsibilities, but these rock-star fucks have all the time in the world to pour their heart into their music. Are they all just that jaded?

Christ your opinion and outlook on everything is buttfuck retarded. I am sorry you were a down syndrome baby who grew into a dolt. Who? How do you know they don't care because your taste sucks? Milencoin? Who? Dino Jr put out lame crap? They may not be 20 but they are older musicians making money to huge crowds often bigger than ever. What are you doing? Still don't know who you are referencing cuz like you haven't illustrated a point yet. Fuck I wish some of you would just keep your stupid fucking sausage fingers off keyboards. Fucking useless discussion starters. Fuck you. Die.

redbreegull · 10-28-2015, 11:21 PM

Neil Young is the obvious exception that comes to mind. he puts out bad stuff as well, but every few albums he still manages to hit it out of the park

Trotskilicious · 10-28-2015, 11:42 PM

iirc leonard cohen was in his late fifties when i'm your man came out and early sixties when the future came out

Sonic Johnny · 10-28-2015, 11:51 PM

He's talking about Rivers Cuomo

fuzzyroes · 10-29-2015, 08:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sonic Johnny

He's talking about Rivers Cuomo

You ever listen to any new Slayer man?.......

....

Yeah.... You should understand this topics sentiment

Trotskilicious · 10-28-2015, 11:58 PM

michael gira

but fuzzy is scared of swans

Trotskilicious · 10-28-2015, 11:58 PM

tom waits

fuzzyroes · 10-29-2015, 08:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trotskilicious

tom waits

Jesus Christ man, you're thinking about the few arguable exceptions to the rule... Just cause theres the odd old dude still putting out arguably good music doesn't mean that the point I'm making is trolling.

Trotskilicious · 10-29-2015, 09:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fuzzyroes

Jesus Christ man, you're thinking about the few arguable exceptions to the rule... Just cause theres the odd old dude still putting out arguably good music doesn't mean that the point I'm making is trolling.

we've listed several people which refutes your point

Trotskilicious · 10-28-2015, 11:58 PM

I can't think of any gen xers yet tho

redbreegull · 10-29-2015, 12:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trotskilicious

I can't think of any gen xers yet tho

I think these guys all did just burn out. Thom Yorke? Mark Kozelek? Both released stuff that was really good in the 2000s, but not so much in the past five years I guess

pavementtune · 01:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by redbreegull

I think these guys all did just burn out. Thom Yorke? Mark Kozelek? Both released stuff that was really good in the 2000s, but not so much in the past five years I guess

Kozelek released Benji last year - which I'd argue is one of the best albums he ever did.

Quote:

Originally Posted by fuzzyroes

It seems like once every good songwriter reaches about their mid 40's and on that they simply can't write a good song anymore. The examples are seemingly endless and it's a true rarity to find an odd exception to this rule.

So what is the deal? Do these guys get old and just stop caring about music? All of the older people I know in my life still love music so that can't be it. Is it just that these guys get pushed too hard and they burn out?

it's not a true rarity, no.
the past few years had these albums - so you can't even argue only the prime examples like Leonard Cohen, Neil Young or Bob Dylan "made one good album back then when they got old."

Let England Shake - PJ Harvey age 42
Vulnicura - Björk age 49
50 Words for Snow - Kate Bush age 53
Push the Sky Away - Nick Cave age 56
Bad As me - Tom Waits age 61

vixnix · 10-29-2015, 12:59 AM

there might be some correlation with singer songwriters coming from uncomfortable backgrounds, getting rich and comfortable, and numbing their still present feelings with endless therapy, consumerism, short lived relationships...and have an audience willing to listen to whatever drivel they produce, so stop really pulling out all the stops to get an audience

maybe that's just crogan

redbreegull · 10-29-2015, 01:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pavementtune

Kozelek released Benji last year - which I'd argue is one of the best albums he ever did.

it took me a LONG time to come around to Benji. I think I posted over and over about wanting so bad to get it but I just couldn't. I can't reconcile it at all with his pre-2010 material, but it is quite good. one day I was on a bus when I was traveling with my friend in asia and I just had a moment where Carissa came on and I really listened to the lyrics staring out the window and I started crying because it's so real. I'm not sure how to explain it.

but overall I think his songwriting took a dip after Admiral Fell Promises. I will say though that I think he could still put out shit that sounds like earlier SKM and it would be just as good, but he is bored and for himself needs to keep doing something different, and I respect that. I don't respect him getting all crazy and having public spats with people in recent years, or calling that journalist a bitch on stage and asking why she wants to fuck him so bad or whatever. Admittedly, she did harass him and his friends on their home phones and then after the incident she profited off it by writing an article for the Atlantic about what a misogynistic awful pig he is... but yeah, it's still not cool Mark.

pavementtune · 10-29-2015, 01:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by redbreegull

one day I was on a bus when I was traveling with my friend in asia and I just had a moment where Carissa came on and I really listened to the lyrics staring out the window and I started crying because it's so real. I'm not sure how to explain it.

I can't explain it either but I had something similar - replace bus with train and Asia with Euro - while listening to Jim Wise.

toase · 11-13-2015, 11:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pavementtune

Let England Shake - PJ Harvey age 42
Vulnicura - Björk age 49
50 Words for Snow - Kate Bush age 53
Push the Sky Away - Nick Cave age 56
Bad As me - Tom Waits age 61

QFT

redbreegull · 11-20-2015, 08:58 PM

Just heard of this guy. Pretty sure he is not over 40 but he's a good songwriter. Kind of like a more alternative Neil Young played by someone whose voice is half Ian Curtis and half Jeff Buckley.

Trotskilicious · 10-29-2015, 12:13 AM

oh jesus are they 40

redbreegull · 10-29-2015, 12:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trotskilicious

oh jesus are they 40

both closer to 50 I think.

one of the few astute things b0lly ever said was pointing out (in the 90s) that rock is really a young man's game, and older people for whatever reason are bad at making rock music generally. Singer songwriters, I can think of a fair number who put out good stuff later in their careers. Blues guys don't even get warmed up until they get old according to several iconic bluesmen.

10-28-2015, 08:13 PM	#1
fuzzyroes Banned Posts: 21,169	Why can't good songwriters continue to write good songs through their 40's and on? It seems like once every good songwriter reaches about their mid 40's and on that they simply can't write a good song anymore. The examples are seemingly endless and it's a true rarity to find an odd exception to this rule. So what is the deal? Do these guys get old and just stop caring about music? All of the older people I know in my life still love music so that can't be it. Is it just that these guys get pushed too hard and they burn out?

10-28-2015, 08:34 PM	#2
slunken Virgo Posts: 42,781	you're talking about singer/songwriters and not songwriters. time to start checking those song credits.

10-28-2015, 08:52 PM	#4
myosis Minion of Satan Location: the institute Posts: 6,421	there is sometimes a comeback of talent at 60 years of age

10-28-2015, 08:54 PM	#5
fuzzyroes Banned Posts: 21,169	Touche, yes, singer songwriters. I suppose theres a bunch of old ass guys writing hits for pop artists and shit

10-28-2015, 08:56 PM	#6
The Omega Concern Banned Location: stay, far, away Posts: 8,986	Robert Plant has never really lost it.

10-28-2015, 09:20 PM	#8
Elphenor Braindead Location: TX Posts: 16,289	Great thread, Fuzzyroes. My answer is going to have to be The Smashing Pumpkins

10-28-2015, 11:21 PM	#13
redbreegull Just Hook it to My Veins! Location: N3t4Euh Haus Posts: 32,753	Neil Young is the obvious exception that comes to mind. he puts out bad stuff as well, but every few albums he still manages to hit it out of the park

10-28-2015, 11:42 PM	#14
Trotskilicious Banned Location: I believe in the transcendental qualities of friendship. Posts: 39,439	iirc leonard cohen was in his late fifties when i'm your man came out and early sixties when the future came out

10-28-2015, 11:51 PM	#15
Sonic Johnny Through Silver In Buds Location: Centralia Posts: 16,502	He's talking about Rivers Cuomo

10-28-2015, 11:58 PM	#17
Trotskilicious Banned Location: I believe in the transcendental qualities of friendship. Posts: 39,439	michael gira but fuzzy is scared of swans

10-29-2015, 12:59 AM	#24
vixnix Socialphobic Location: we are champions, bathed in the heat of a thousand flame wars in the grim future of the internet there is only netphoria Posts: 12,467	there might be some correlation with singer songwriters coming from uncomfortable backgrounds, getting rich and comfortable, and numbing their still present feelings with endless therapy, consumerism, short lived relationships...and have an audience willing to listen to whatever drivel they produce, so stop really pulling out all the stops to get an audience maybe that's just crogan

11-20-2015, 08:58 PM	#28
redbreegull Just Hook it to My Veins! Location: N3t4Euh Haus Posts: 32,753	Just heard of this guy. Pretty sure he is not over 40 but he's a good songwriter. Kind of like a more alternative Neil Young played by someone whose voice is half Ian Curtis and half Jeff Buckley.

10-29-2015, 12:13 AM	#29
Trotskilicious Banned Location: I believe in the transcendental qualities of friendship. Posts: 39,439	oh jesus are they 40