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Old 10-30-2020, 10:15 PM   #121
GreenDogGlynis
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Originally Posted by Ram27 View Post
what
I'm sure its really cool but ever since I heard Billy say he formed Zwan so he could play with so called better musicians I've had a little grudge against the band.

 
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Old 10-30-2020, 10:15 PM   #122
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I’m honestly not shocked by his ig posts. It’s him be as he always has been.

 
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Old 10-30-2020, 10:17 PM   #123
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Billy has been this way throughout the entirety of his career. We just didn’t see it as much in the 90s because we over idolized him. But listen to his rants from those lollapalooza shows, for example, and they’re just as cringe as his behavior is now.
He may have always had a side that was sensitive and whiny but its gotten way way worse. He's literally trying to ruin everyone's memories and relationship with the band with how he's talking lately.

 
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Old 10-30-2020, 10:24 PM   #124
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In 1993 he got in disputes with pretentious people who doubted his sincerity. He was ticked when Derogatis trashed Hummer and part of that was because those were sincere lyrics he wrote about his life. Maybe he could've taken the high road there but at least he was fighting for the band and its vision. Now he just says these were all characters that he made up and it wasn't personal as we thought if personal at all. It's not true, it's weird, and it's unnerving.

 
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Old 10-30-2020, 10:56 PM   #125
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I don't think there's much that could get me to stop paying attention to this band. SP1 will be with me my whole life; I don't really care what Billy says about any of what his songs mean, because I frankly don't give a shit what any of them mean to Billy. They've been with me throughout the majority of my life at this point, and I've created my own contexts, connotations, and characters (real and imagined) to go with them. Fuck, he could tell us Siamese Dream has a hidden code written into it about how the holocaust is a hoax and I still wouldn't give a shit.

The main thing Billy doesn't get is that his art is way bigger than he is. You can see that in his constant minimization of other efforts in the SP camp, his tendency to surround himself with toadies, and an attitude and demeanor that suggests everything he does should be considered relevant and good simply because of the fact that it came from him. Mellon Collie and Siamese Dream are timeless because they fit so comfortably into a world, an era, and connected personsally and deeply with so many of us. Not because they came from this special, ultra talented, weird motherfucker.

I've never even attempted to listen to his Siddhartha album/performance, though, so maybe there are limits to my tolerance for BC's bullshit.

 
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Old 10-30-2020, 11:04 PM   #126
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Very true to say that no matter how hard Billy tries to ruin SP1 he will never be able to, and that SP is the four members, the producers, engineers, roadies, fans, etc. Not just Billy Corgan

 
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Old 10-30-2020, 11:07 PM   #127
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I remember reading a Tommy Lee interview about MTAE, and he was talking about one of the songs, Drum and Fife maybe? Where Tommy said it wasn’t good enough and forced BC to change it around. Be honest with yourself, is any of that going on in this new SP3? Or is it just dead eyes and nodding yes to bad song ideas and cashing paychecks. Imagine James’ micro expressions when he hears the demos of these songs. He probably agrees with everything we are saying. But will he stand up to Billy? Fuck no. He wants his money. I don’t blame him. But all 8 of these new songs are trash.

 
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Old 10-30-2020, 11:14 PM   #128
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James doesn't seem like he cares. Not only is there music problems but Billy still takes passive aggressive shots at him in interviews

 
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Old 10-31-2020, 12:15 AM   #129
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In fairness, Billy has gotten really weird in recent interviews and social media, and Jimmy seems to be going along with it. Billy seems like he wants to spite anyone who is willing to share any grain of truth about SP. It's very much reflected in the music, interviews, and social media interaction. I really thought we were turning a corner for the better in 2018 and even in January of this year, if not in music than at least in attitude and communication, but now it seems worse than ever. It seems like being critical is the only real response. I was definitely mad about Billy's attitude towards SP1 and the fans in the 2007-2015 period, but now it seems like its entering an even new level of strange to where I feel genuinely uncomfortable about the situation.
Billy seems to be mimicking / miming Donald Trump

 
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Old 10-31-2020, 12:54 AM   #130
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They all got kids to put through college

 
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Old 10-31-2020, 01:13 AM   #131
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In fairness, Billy has gotten really weird in recent interviews and social media, and Jimmy seems to be going along with it.
true. in that recent interview when bill said they were not dysfunctional, they were choosing to play a dysfunctional band.. wow. let me guess, the whole situation with d'arcy a year or two ago with the texts was all part of the act, right? really playing the long game bill

i was surprised jimmy just seemed ok with it all. that said, what option does he have.. if he's in, he's in for all the b.s. too. if he were going to take a stand, it would likely be by not being part of this

 
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Old 10-31-2020, 01:33 AM   #132
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true. in that recent interview when bill said they were not dysfunctional, they were choosing to play a dysfunctional band.. wow. let me guess, the whole situation with d'arcy a year or two ago with the texts was all part of the act, right? really playing the long game bill

i was surprised jimmy just seemed ok with it all. that said, what option does he have.. if he's in, he's in for all the b.s. too. if he were going to take a stand, it would likely be by not being part of this
Yeah, I don't expect Jimmy to totally refute Billy, especially in public. But I was surprised he went with it to the extent he did and didn't try to tamp things down a little. When he said he was presenting a character too that was a new low point for me.

 
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Old 10-31-2020, 02:36 AM   #133
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i mean i haven't watched either, but i assume that's just him trying to sympathize with his business partner and/or make things more palatable to the audience

 
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Old 10-31-2020, 05:56 AM   #134
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i mean i haven't watched either, but i assume that's just him trying to sympathize with his business partner and/or make things more palatable to the audience
That's kinda how I took it. Clearly they disagreed about this stuff before. The whole 20th anniversary thing - who was the character then that was so antagonistic to the audience - not glass or zero, right? Anyway. I liked the interview mostly, apart from that bit + which is a bit difficult to unpick, because there is clearly various layers of truth in there - how far that extends to "excuse" some other behaviours though? Limited.

 
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Old 10-31-2020, 08:15 AM   #135
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Also, lately with BC talking about how MCIS has been a part of the story all along, was indeed a concept album.. there’s an interview in 1995 where he says no, it’s no it a concept album.

https://youtu.be/Pt0XFnhCGBE

But listen to him in the first lines of this interview.. this is again, all nothing new. He just talks too much. Like this recent MCIS interview. Talks too much. I would have loved to hear more about the actual making of the record and less about the “playing a character” concept.

 
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Old 10-31-2020, 10:41 AM   #136
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Agree. Like you said in 1995 he definitely said it wasn’t a concept album. It’s maybe got some overlapping themes but really it’s just a collection of great songs. No more a concept album than the White Album (its closest counterpart really). The way he’s changing the narrative to fit whatever business venture he has in mind for the band and also trying to tie it in with Machina is laughable. And of course the more gullible sycophantic fans are eating this shit up.

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Old 10-31-2020, 11:07 AM   #137
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Haven’t listened or read a single big willie interview in like 5 years. Thought this was like the number 1 rule for retaining your sanity as a SP fan: Dont Listen to Big Willie

 
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Old 10-31-2020, 11:34 AM   #138
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I agree that we just have to shrug off a lot of what Billy says. It just sucks because this would have been a really good opportunity to just relax and have a good time talking about the making of MCIS. When Krist and Dave had their radio interview on In Utero, it was a lot of fun to hear some funny stories about the making of the album, where they were, what recording was like, etc. It wasn't like Nirvana didn't have their problems or pretentions but that was all put aside and left in the past. But with SP we have to experience a total rewriting of history and a new level of weirdness

 
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Old 10-31-2020, 12:08 PM   #139
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As far as playing a character goes, obviously they were never going it to the length that people in Ghost or Manson did, but the only argument to really be made is that going up on stage, you put on your game face, your public persona, wearing shit you'd never wear offstage, and maybe over time, having changed so much in the years since, Jimmy and James have come to look at who they were publicly then as exaggerations of themselves



There was definitely never a plan to sit down and present fake personas though until Billy pitched the idea before Machina and D'Arcy shot him down.

 
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Old 10-31-2020, 12:23 PM   #140
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You really have to wonder how many bad ideas of Billy’s D’Arcy saved us from experiencing.

 
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Old 10-31-2020, 12:31 PM   #141
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The point is that it is billy corgan solo.....

Sry but wytchh is like monuments song but with horrible vocals....

Sry i love guitars, but always was disgusted by similar songs like fol, glow or seek and destroy....

These stupid riffs, no melody paired with horrible singing......

Jesus hopefully billy dorsnt do a mcis or machina follow up...

Cringey embarrassing..i am speechless howbad these tracks sound.....

And worse.... i have no desire to listen to these annoying tracks again

 
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Old 10-31-2020, 01:53 PM   #142
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Haven’t listened or read a single big willie interview in like 5 years. Thought this was like the number 1 rule for retaining your sanity as a SP fan: Dont Listen to Big Willie
i can't and never will listen to the alex jones shit. i've avoided it.. it'll ruin something i hold sacred. separate the art from the artist indeed.

 
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Old 10-31-2020, 01:55 PM   #143
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also loved JC in this interview, after Billy goes on that long rant playing a "character," jimmy goes oh i definitely played "characters" and they both laugh about it. I get a sense he knows it's bullshit. and hell maybe billy does too. i'm hoping his right wing alex jones bullshit is a character.

 
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Old 10-31-2020, 02:41 PM   #144
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i can't and never will listen to the alex jones shit. i've avoided it.. it'll ruin something i hold sacred. separate the art from the artist indeed.
I k ow what u mean...i have met billy by accident. He was unfriendly and pissed. Jimmy was really nice and chilled. I asked fir a photo..

But sthg in me said: the guy is cold, is a rich fuck, is unfriendly and mea n to others. Jimmy is really a nice guy. Also in interviews.

Never meet your idol!!!

These q&a prooves that bolly is an asshole

 
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Old 10-31-2020, 03:34 PM   #145
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Samhain, Samhain
Thru this harvest, tred nigh
All hallows' eve
Samhain, Samhain
Under mask, I am stars
All hallows' eve

Samhain, Samhain
Take my hand, vex moonlight
Midheaven wanes
All hallows' eve

Black turns forever turns to sleep
Black turns confessor turns to reap

Hey!
Come call, Autumnus
Start the wheel of Helios
Strike up the lantern
Singe forth darkest peace
We'll follow under

Samhain, Samhain
Awaken spirits in thy breath
Love, lie with thee
Samhain, Samhain
Gifting apples that I'd spoilt
To Hallowmass
Love, lie with thee

Black turns forever turns to sleep
Black turns confessor turns to reap

Hey!
Come call, Autumnus
Start the wheel of Helios
Strike up the lantern

Black turns forever turns to sleep
Black turns confessor turns to reap
Black turns sinless turns to seed
Black turns protectress turns to reap

Hey!
Come call Autumnus

Last edited by Forgotten Child : 10-31-2020 at 04:57 PM.

 
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Old 10-31-2020, 04:08 PM   #146
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Gifting apples that is spoilt
tis a bounder in our midst

 
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Old 10-31-2020, 04:47 PM   #147
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Wrytten by Wylliam Pattryck Corggan


 
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Old 10-31-2020, 05:29 PM   #148
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Yeah, have listened twice now - and in the middle of the second, I realized that I had no desire to listen to this song again. After that, Cyr popped up immediately next on the streaming service and I found myself being grateful for that song's superior-ness. So, yeah, take that for what it's worth.

 
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Old 10-31-2020, 05:30 PM   #149
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Was going to also chime in - I think that Wrath is still my favorite. It somehow has a 1989 era SP feel to it, and I'm quite OK with that.

 
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Old 10-31-2020, 06:31 PM   #150
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Ye Wrath is the best one

 
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