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Old 07-13-2008, 02:44 AM   #1
Debaser
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Default McCain is pretty awful huh.

With the steady Obama backlash droning on, sometimes we should step back and realize how terrible his opponent is. Perspective, eh.

Last edited by Debaser : 07-13-2008 at 03:19 AM.

 
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Old 07-13-2008, 02:46 AM   #2
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Latest count of McCain flip-flops: 61.

http://www.thecarpetbaggerreport.com...ves/16124.html

Remember, just two weeks ago, John McCain said, “This election is about trust and trusting people’s word.” Just a few days prior, the McCain campaign admonished Barack Obama for trying to “have it both ways” on issues.

And with that in mind…

National Security Policy

1. McCain thought Bush’s warrantless-wiretap program circumvented the law; now he believes the opposite.

2. McCain insisted that everyone, even “terrible killers,” “the worst kind of scum of humanity,” and detainees at Guantanamo Bay, “deserve to have some adjudication of their cases,” even if that means “releasing some of them.” McCain now believes the opposite.

3. He opposed indefinite detention of terrorist suspects. When the Supreme Court reached the same conclusion, he called it “one of the worst decisions in the history of this country.”

4. In February 2008, McCain reversed course on prohibiting waterboarding.

5. McCain was for closing the detention facility at Guantanamo Bay before he was against it.

6. When Barack Obama talked about going after terrorists in Pakistani mountains with predators, McCain criticized him for it. He’s since come to the opposite conclusion.

Foreign Policy

7. McCain was for kicking Russia out of the G8 before he was against it.

8. McCain supported moving “towards normalization of relations” with Cuba. Now he believes the opposite.

9. McCain believed the U.S. should engage in diplomacy with Hamas. Now he believes the opposite.

10. McCain believed the U.S. should engage in diplomacy with Syria. Now he believes the opposite.

11. McCain is both for and against a “rogue state rollback” as a focus of his foreign policy vision.

12. McCain used to champion the Law of the Sea convention, even volunteering to testify on the treaty’s behalf before a Senate committee. Now he opposes it.

13. McCain was against divestment from South Africa before he was for it.

Military Policy

14. McCain recently claimed that he was the “greatest critic” of Rumsfeld’s failed Iraq policy. In December 2003, McCain praised the same strategy as “a mission accomplished.” In March 2004, he said, “I’m confident we’re on the right course.” In December 2005, he said, “Overall, I think a year from now, we will have made a fair amount of progress if we stay the course.”

15. McCain has changed his mind about a long-term U.S. military presence in Iraq on multiple occasions, concluding, on multiple occasions, that a Korea-like presence is both a good and a bad idea.

16. McCain said before the war in Iraq, “We will win this conflict. We will win it easily.” Four years later, McCain said he knew all along that the war in Iraq war was “probably going to be long and hard and tough.”

17. McCain has repeatedly said it’s a dangerous mistake to tell the “enemy” when U.S. troops would be out of Iraq. In May, McCain announced that most American troops would be home from Iraq by 2013.

18. McCain was against expanding the GI Bill before he was for it.

Domestic Policy

19. McCain defended “privatizing” Social Security. Now he says he’s against privatization (though he actually still supports it.)

20. McCain wanted to change the Republican Party platform to protect abortion rights in cases of rape and incest. Now he doesn’t.

21. McCain supported storing spent nuclear fuel at Yucca Mountain in Nevada. Now he believes the opposite.

22. He argued the NRA should not have a role in the Republican Party’s policy making. Now he believes the opposite.

23. In 1998, he championed raising cigarette taxes to fund programs to cut underage smoking, insisting that it would prevent illnesses and provide resources for public health programs. Now, McCain opposes a $0.61-per-pack tax increase, won’t commit to supporting a regulation bill he’s co-sponsoring, and has hired Philip Morris’ former lobbyist as his senior campaign adviser.

24. McCain is both for and against earmarks for Arizona.

25. McCain’s first mortgage plan was premised on the notion that homeowners facing foreclosure shouldn’t be “rewarded” for acting “irresponsibly.” His second mortgage plan took largely the opposite position.

26. McCain went from saying gay marriage should be allowed, to saying gay marriage shouldn’t be allowed.

27. McCain opposed a holiday to honor Martin Luther King, Jr., before he supported it.

28. McCain was anti-ethanol. Now he’s pro-ethanol.

29. McCain was both for and against state promotion of the Confederate flag.

30. In 2005, McCain endorsed intelligent design creationism, a year later he said the opposite, and a few months after that, he was both for and against creationism at the same time.

Economic Policy

31. McCain was against Bush’s tax cuts for the very wealthy before he was for them.

32. John McCain initially argued that economics is not an area of expertise for him, saying, “I’m going to be honest: I know a lot less about economics than I do about military and foreign policy issues; I still need to be educated,” and “The issue of economics is not something I’ve understood as well as I should.” He now falsely denies ever having made these remarks and insists that he has a “very strong” understanding of economics.

33. McCain vowed, if elected, to balance the federal budget by the end of his first term. Soon after, he decided he would no longer even try to reach that goal. And soon after that, McCain abandoned his second position and went back to his first.

34. McCain said in 2005 that he opposed the tax cuts because they were “too tilted to the wealthy.” By 2007, he denied ever having said this, and falsely argued that he opposed the cuts because of increased government spending.

35. McCain thought the estate tax was perfectly fair. Now he believes the opposite.

36. McCain pledged in February 2008 that he would not, under any circumstances, raise taxes. Specifically, McCain was asked if he is a “‘read my lips’ candidate, no new taxes, no matter what?” referring to George H.W. Bush’s 1988 pledge. “No new taxes,” McCain responded. Two weeks later, McCain said, “I’m not making a ‘read my lips’ statement, in that I will not raise taxes.”

37. McCain has changed his entire economic worldview on multiple occasions.

38. McCain believes Americans are both better and worse off economically than they were before Bush took office.

Energy Policy

39. McCain supported the moratorium on coastal drilling ; now he’s against it.

40. McCain recently announced his strong opposition to a windfall-tax on oil company profits. Three weeks earlier, he was perfectly comfortable with the idea.

41. McCain endorsed a cap-and-trade policy with a mandatory emissions cap. In mid-June, McCain announced he wants the caps to voluntary.

42. McCain explained his belief that a temporary suspension of the federal gas tax would provide an immediate economic stimulus. Shortly thereafter, he argued the exact opposite.

43. McCain supported the Lieberman/Warner legislation to combat global warming. Now he doesn’t.

Immigration Policy

44. McCain was a co-sponsor of the DREAM Act, which would grant legal status to illegal immigrants’ kids who graduate from high school. Now he’s against it.

45. On immigration policy in general, McCain announced in February 2008 that he would vote against his own bill.

46. In April, McCain promised voters that he would secure the borders “before proceeding to other reform measures.” Two months later, he abandoned his public pledge, pretended that he’d never made the promise in the first place, and vowed that a comprehensive immigration reform policy has always been, and would always be, his “top priority.”

Judicial Policy and the Rule of Law

47. McCain said he would “not impose a litmus test on any nominee.” He used to promise the opposite.

48. McCain believes the telecoms should be forced to explain their role in the administration’s warrantless surveillance program as a condition for retroactive immunity. He used to believe the opposite.

49. McCain went from saying he would not support repeal of Roe v. Wade to saying the exact opposite.

Campaign, Ethics, and Lobbying Reform

50. McCain supported his own lobbying-reform legislation from 1997. Now he doesn’t.

51. In 2006, McCain sponsored legislation to require grassroots lobbying coalitions to reveal their financial donors. In 2007, after receiving “feedback” on the proposal, McCain told far-right activist groups that he opposes his own measure.

52. McCain supported a campaign-finance bill, which bore his name, on strengthening the public-financing system. In June 2007, he abandoned his own legislation.

Politics and Associations

53. McCain wanted political support from radical televangelist John Hagee. Now he doesn’t. (He also believes his endorsement from Hagee was both a good and bad idea.)

54. McCain wanted political support from radical televangelist Rod Parsley. Now he doesn’t.

55. McCain says he considered and did not consider joining John Kerry’s Democratic ticket in 2004.

56. McCain is both for and against attacking Barack Obama over his former pastor at his former church.

57. McCain criticized TV preacher Jerry Falwell as “an agent of intolerance” in 2002, but then decided to cozy up to the man who said Americans “deserved” the 9/11 attacks.

58. In 2000, McCain accused Texas businessmen Sam and Charles Wyly of being corrupt, spending “dirty money” to help finance Bush’s presidential campaign. McCain not only filed a complaint against the Wylys for allegedly violating campaign finance law, he also lashed out at them publicly. In April, McCain reached out to the Wylys for support.

59. McCain was against presidential candidates campaigning at Bob Jones University before he was for it.

60. McCain decided in 2000 that he didn’t want anything to do with former Secretary of State Henry Kissinger, believing he “would taint the image of the ‘Straight Talk Express.’” Kissinger is now the Honorary Co-Chair for his presidential campaign in New York.

61. McCain believed powerful right-wing activist/lobbyist Grover Norquist was “corrupt, a shill for dictators, and (with just a dose of sarcasm) Jack Abramoff’s gay lover.” McCain now considers Norquist a key political ally.

And while I realize there are some who believe these constant flip-flops are irrelevant, I respectfully disagree.

Last edited by Debaser : 07-13-2008 at 03:14 AM.

 
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Old 07-13-2008, 02:48 AM   #3
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http://www.prospect.org/csnc/blogs/e..._not_understan

JOHN MCCAIN DOES NOT UNDERSTAND SOCIAL SECURITY.

Speaketh McCain:

"Americans have got to understand that we are paying present-day retirees with the taxes paid by young workers in America today. And that's a disgrace. It's an absolute disgrace, and it's got to be fixed."

Everyone's quoting this, but I think the point of it is getting a bit lost: According to this comment, until today, or possibly sometime this week, John McCain did not know how Social Security worked. Just did not know. Wasn't aware. He seems to believe that at some other point in history, retiree benefits were paid for through taxes contributed by former workers, or possibly the retirees themselves. But, as Dean Baker says, "present-day retirees have always been paid their benefits from the taxes paid by current workers. That has been true from Social Security's inception." And it would remain true, incidentally, in the partial privatization plans that McCain and other conservatives favor: Those plans would still see Social Security funded out of payroll taxes, with current workers subsidizing current retirees.

There are criticisms that people make of Social Security, most of them relating to a mismatch between the program's revenue and its future obligations. But McCain's comment is very different. It's like if lots of people made fun of one guy's car because it was broken down, ugly, and lacked headlights. Then one of the dimmer members of the group, sensing an opportunity to jump in, piped up with, "yeah, four wheels and an engine? What's with that!? When you gonna do something about that!?" Everyone would sort of look at the guy for a moment while they registered that this person didn't understand how a car worked. Now imagine that this person was applying to run an auto shop. And people were taking his application seriously. That's sort of the situation we're in.

 
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Old 07-13-2008, 03:05 AM   #4
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McCain actually doesn't know what his own position is.


Last edited by Debaser : 07-13-2008 at 03:19 AM.

 
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Old 07-13-2008, 03:07 AM   #5
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That above actually harkens back to last year when he forgot what his position was on HIV contraception in Africa. Or maybe he really doesn't know how condoms work.

http://thecaucus.blogs.nytimes.com/2...iv-prevention/

"Do you think contraceptives help stop the spread of HIV?”

Mr. McCain: (Long pause) “You’ve stumped me.”

Q: “I mean, I think you’d probably agree it probably does help stop it?”

Mr. McCain: (Laughs) “Are we on the Straight Talk express? I’m not informed enough on it. Let me find out. You know, I’m sure I’ve taken a position on it on the past. I have to find out what my position was. Brian, would you find out what my position is on contraception – I’m sure I’m opposed to government spending on it, I’m sure I support the president’s policies on it.”

Q: “But you would agree that condoms do stop the spread of sexually transmitted diseases. Would you say: ‘No, we’re not going to distribute them,’ knowing that?”

Mr. McCain: (Twelve-second pause) “Get me Coburn’s thing, ask Weaver to get me Coburn’s paper that he just gave me in the last couple of days. I’ve never gotten into these issues before.”"

 
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Old 07-13-2008, 03:10 AM   #6
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MCCAIN DOESN'T KNOW HOW INCOME TAX WORKS

http://www.factcheck.org/elections-2..._question.html

The McCain campaign falsely claims that Obama voted to raise income taxes on individuals earning "as little as $32,000 per year."
Summary
The McCain campaign claims that Obama voted to raise income taxes on individuals who earn as little as $32,000 per year. That's wrong.

* The resolution Obama voted for would not have increased taxes on any single taxpayer making less than $41,500 per year in total income, or any couple making less than $83,000. The $32,000 figure is approximately the taxable income of a single person making $41,500 per year, after all deductions and exclusions.

* Obama's vote (for a non-binding budget bill) does not change the fact that his own tax plan would provide a tax cut of $502 for a non-married taxpayer earning $35,000.

Update, July 11: After this article was posted the McCain campaign and the Republican National Committee aired a radio ad in two states repeating the bogus $32,000 figure. The campaign also sent an e-mail to reporters defending it, but failing to note that it refers to taxable income and not total income.
Analysis
Sen. John McCain's "economic adviser" Steve Forbes pushed the $32,000 claim July 7 in a conference call with reporters and in news interviews. Here's what he said in the call:

Forbes: Senator Obama has a series of tax proposals and tax actions that would devastate the American economy. For example, he has voted to increase income taxes on individuals earning as little as $32,000 a year. He doesn't make much of that on the campaign trail, but he did that in the Senate.

We can certainly see why Obama wouldn't "make much of this" – especially since it's not true.

What Obama voted for was a budget resolution that would have allowed most of the provisions of the 2001 and 2003 tax cuts to expire. In particular, the resolution would allow the 25 percent tax bracket to return to its pre-2001 level of 28 percent. That bracket kicks in at $32,550 for an individual or $65,100 for a married couple. (The McCain campaign relies on an AP article which puts the cutoff at $31,850, but that figure is from 2007, not this year.) So the McCain campaign claims that anyone making "as little as $32,000" would be affected by the rate increase.

But as those of you who have filled out a 1040 know, that's not actually how income taxes work. We don't pay taxes on our total earnings; we pay them based on our "taxable income." The Urban-Brookings Tax Policy Center's Eric Toder told FactCheck.org that "people with taxable income of $32,000 would have a total income greater than that." In 2008, anyone filing taxes with single status would be entitled to a standard deduction of $5,450, as well as a personal exemption of $3,500. So to have a taxable income high enough to reach the 25 percent bracket, an individual would need to earn at least $41,500 in total income, while a married couple would need a combined income of at least $83,000.

 
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Old 07-13-2008, 03:13 AM   #7
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MCCAIN'S ENERGY POLICY IS JUST A BIG NONSENSICAL CLUSTERFUCK OF IGNORANT SHIT

http://www.factcheck.org/elections-2...er_outage.html

Summary
McCain has spent the week focusing on energy policy, making some surprising, and inaccurate, statements.

Among them:

* He said that ending a moratorium on offshore oil drilling "would be very helpful in the short term in resolving our energy crisis." But according to a government report, offshore oil wouldn't have much of an impact on supply or prices until 2030. Update, June 24: At a town hall event on June 23, McCain didn't claim that offshore drilling would lower prices in the short term, but that it would provide "psychological impact that I think is beneficial."

* McCain tried to paint Obama as an opponent of nuclear power, yet Obama has said he is open to nuclear energy being part of the solution and has supported bills that contained nuclear subsidies.

* He has soft-pedaled the "cap" portion of his cap-and-trade proposal for greenhouse gases, even denying that it would be a mandate. The cap is a mandatory limit, however, and McCain even says so on his Web site.

* McCain's new ad, running this week, rightly says that he bucked his party in supporting action on climate change years ago. But its images of windmills and solar panels are misleading in that he supports subsidies for nuclear power, which isn't pictured, and opposes them for wind and solar energy.

* McCain continues to say that a suspension of the federal gas tax will lower prices for consumers, though hundreds of economists say he is wrong.

 
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Old 07-13-2008, 03:50 AM   #8
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CHRIST THIS IS GETTING RIDICULOUS

The Week That Should Have Ended McCain's Presidential Hopes

 
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Old 07-13-2008, 03:59 AM   #9
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i like turtles

 
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Old 07-13-2008, 04:18 AM   #10
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I was feeling pretty down on Obama the past few weeks until this. Thank you for putting things in perspective.

 
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Old 07-13-2008, 04:26 AM   #11
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unfortunely 90% of the american populace doesn't know any of this nor do they probably care

 
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Old 07-13-2008, 05:57 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TuralyonW3 View Post
unfortunely 90% of the american populace doesn't know any of this nor do they probably care
Pretty much. All the major candidates have already convinced me not to vote, I don't really care about additional reasons except for conversation purposes. Of course it will be amusing to see some people on this board try to refute every one of McCain's flip-flops.

 
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Old 07-13-2008, 06:22 AM   #13
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NO CUNT TREE FOR OLD MAN

 
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Old 07-13-2008, 01:04 PM   #14
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great thread. Although I have no problems with politicans changing their mind on things in general... I actually perfer it to the Bush stubborn 'no matter what the facts present' mindset.


BUT there are a lot of things on that list that deserve some thought and there this forum needed some balance after all the obama talk.

 
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Old 07-13-2008, 01:40 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Debaser View Post
NO CUNT TREE FOR OLD MAN
ahhahaha. the end was great.

 
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Old 07-13-2008, 06:47 PM   #16
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McCain is so lucky that he's a media darling, and still perceived by many mentally challenged Americans as the great Maverick ready to get off the Straight Talk Express and save the day. Most of his changes in positions go by unnoticed or barely talked about.

Obama is getting all the attention, good or bad, for whatever stupid reason, despite how many times McCain has contradicted himself.

 
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Old 07-14-2008, 11:56 AM   #17
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McCain provides The Washington Post his budget plan.

The Washington Post then says the budget plan's math is nonsense.

 
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Old 07-14-2008, 11:58 AM   #18
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"I think that we’ve proven that both parents are important in the success of a family so, no, I don’t believe in gay adoption."

 
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Old 07-17-2008, 12:58 AM   #19
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what no corganist/nimrod's son comment on this?

 
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Old 07-18-2008, 07:46 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dudehitscar View Post
what no corganist/nimrod's son comment on this?
why do you continue to insist that i'm a McCain supporter? i've said numerous times there is no chance in hell i would ever vote for him.

stop seeing the world as two parties, would you?

 
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Old 07-18-2008, 09:35 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nimrod's Son View Post
why do you continue to insist that i'm a McCain supporter? i've said numerous times there is no chance in hell i would ever vote for him.

stop seeing the world as two parties, would you?
I'm just saying. You chime in on every anti-obama thread but shy away from mccain critizism. I also recall you saying nice things about Mccain in the past.

 
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Old 07-18-2008, 09:58 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dudehitscar View Post
I'm just saying. You chime in on every anti-obama thread but shy away from mccain critizism. I also recall you saying nice things about Mccain in the past.
You're delusional. There are just more idiotically biased positive things about Obama than McCain on this board because everyone has their head up Barack's ass.

McCain is absolutely the worst type of candidate the GOP could have put up, but not at all for the same reasons people keep claiming ("Bush II! Religious whacko!")

 
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Old 07-19-2008, 01:11 AM   #23
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I think he's pretty fucking awesome!

 
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Old 07-19-2008, 01:14 AM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nimrod's Son View Post
McCain is absolutely the worst type of candidate the GOP could have put up
Coming from a Ron Paul supporter, this doesn't mean anything.

 
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Old 07-19-2008, 08:21 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tchocky View Post
Coming from a Ron Paul supporter, this doesn't mean anything.
Does it mean anything if I say it? I totally concur with Nimrod. I've never been loath to vote for and defend the GOP, but it's gonna be real hard for me to pull the lever for McCain in November.

 
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Old 07-19-2008, 08:35 PM   #26
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so...don't?

 
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Old 07-19-2008, 08:35 PM   #27
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then don't.

 
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Old 07-19-2008, 09:15 PM   #28
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I'm thinking about it! And by "it" I mean abstaining...not voting for Obama.

I just want to make clear that I don't see myself being nearly as interested in defending McCain as I have been in doing so for Bush...mainly because it seems to me that McCain actually deserves the worst of the criticism he gets. It's easy to shoot down the hyperbole about how bad Bush has been...but McCain? Not so much.

 
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Old 07-19-2008, 09:34 PM   #29
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you seriously think mccain is worse than bush? youre pretty warped, man

 
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Old 07-20-2008, 03:30 AM   #30
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i like how whenever mccain talks about anything obama says or does, it's as though he were scoffing at some punk teenager who thinks he knows everything.

these next couple months are going to be painfully absurd. of course that's going to be nothing compared to the subsequent four years thereafter, but i say one step at a time.

 
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