Netphoria Message Board


Go Back   Netphoria Message Board > Smashing Pumpkins Boards > Smashing Pumpkins/Billy Corgan Discussion
Register Netphoria's Amazon.com Link Members List Photo Album Mark Forums Read

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 09-29-2018, 11:21 PM   #1
fuzzyroes
Braindead
 
fuzzyroes's Avatar
 
Posts: 19,092
Default a lil bit of Bully, a lil bit of Swifty, a whole lot of Fuzzy & RBG: the sandbox

Look, I realize that the new Smashing Pumpkins music hasn't been all that great, but if you look over their past releases, there's a lot more decent material than other 90's acts who have currently charted MUCH higher than Smashing Pumpkins.

The latest Stone Temple Pilots music is complete and utter trash and they're charting higher with a new lead singer than Smashing Pumpkins with Iha and Jimmy. Bush has been dwarfing SP in the rock charts too.

I think it's possible that Billy is paying the price for being so open about his political views. The same thing has happened with guys like Ted Nugent, Dave Mustaine and just recently Michale Graves of the Misfits.

I mean, One And All was at least as good if not better than the latest singles from STP, Alice In Chains, Bush and Pearl Jam... But it did jack shit on the charts.

It's worth noting that Billy curiously skipped doing press with Alex Jones on his last media run. Maybe this has been an effort to "play ball and play nice" with the music industry. He's sure gotten in line to do the nostalgic reunion thing to the thrill of Live Nation when he SWORE he'd never do it. I think our boy has given in, but it dosen't seem to be doing him any good. Is this a case of too little too late? Is he now destined to the fate of stale greatest hits tours?

 
fuzzyroes is offline
Old 09-29-2018, 11:34 PM   #2
pavementtune
**************
 
pavementtune's Avatar
 
Location: I'm a quitter. I come from a long line of quitters. It's amazing I'm here at all.
Posts: 8,122
Default

For one, there isn't even a new Pumpkins album out yet. The single they did put out and promoted was utter trash. Single 2 is miles better and got nothing, which is on them. Besides that, I highly doubt that the other acts you mention

- chose either self release or the trashiest 3rd rate label based in Germany you can find on the market (Napalm Records, like are you fucking kidding me)
- have exactly zero marketing (or video, or graphic, or anything else) specialists on the crew and instead decide to go with with halfbaked cheap "friends" who can't tell their ass from their head.

you don't get a decent marketing without effort, I highly doubt that somehow SP has a) unqualified lawyers b) unqualified "artists" for merch, graphic design and videos c) exactly nobody who knows how to do social media but has a decent marketing team.

That, or yea, sure, the cabal

 
pavementtune is offline
Old 09-29-2018, 11:41 PM   #3
fuzzyroes
Braindead
 
fuzzyroes's Avatar
 
Posts: 19,092
Default

Is SP really just screwing the pooch in all those marketing areas? I don't really keep up with any of that stuff. I know they were essentially self-funding the teargarden releases, but Oceania and Monuments were released by EMI. They focus a lot on radio promotion and advertising.

Corgan strikes me as a perfectionist stickler, I don't think he's gonna half-ass anything on the business side of things... Especially when it comes to the reunion music. I at least figured that Silvery was pleasant and formulaic enough to get a little radio attention. I'm surprised by how it's achieved next to no traction.

It may sound like a conspiracy, but a lot of people who routinely appeared on the Alex Jones show are facing a lot of career difficulties. Even Joe Rogan has been forced to distance himself from him

 
fuzzyroes is offline
Old 09-29-2018, 11:51 PM   #4
pavementtune
**************
 
pavementtune's Avatar
 
Location: I'm a quitter. I come from a long line of quitters. It's amazing I'm here at all.
Posts: 8,122
Default

That's not a conspiracy. it's called reaping what you sow. or an adult being held accountable for what he chooses to do, by not showering him in undeserved praise and not going out of your way to help him score commercially. oh no someone think of their careers, poor sods. they should have done that themselves when they choose to do what they did.

 
pavementtune is offline
Old 09-29-2018, 11:52 PM   #5
FoolofaTook
Immortal
 
FoolofaTook's Avatar
 
Posts: 24,083
Default

lol yes its a conspiracy not because their utter morons or anything like that

 
FoolofaTook is offline
Old 09-29-2018, 11:53 PM   #6
FoolofaTook
Immortal
 
FoolofaTook's Avatar
 
Posts: 24,083
Default

GODDAMNIT PAVEMENTUNE YOUR IN THE WAY

 
FoolofaTook is offline
Old 09-29-2018, 11:53 PM   #7
FoolofaTook
Immortal
 
FoolofaTook's Avatar
 
Posts: 24,083
Default

BAN PAVETUNE

 
FoolofaTook is offline
Old 09-29-2018, 11:54 PM   #8
FoolofaTook
Immortal
 
FoolofaTook's Avatar
 
Posts: 24,083
Default

alex jones sucks
billy corgan sucks
sp2 sucks
drunk fuzzy trolling netphoria in 2018.... SUCKS.

 
FoolofaTook is offline
Old 09-29-2018, 11:55 PM   #9
pavementtune
**************
 
pavementtune's Avatar
 
Location: I'm a quitter. I come from a long line of quitters. It's amazing I'm here at all.
Posts: 8,122
Default

I'm sorry I'm sorry, but I advise you against slapping me out of the way, you'd need to bend so far down that would be killing your back!

speaking of 2018 albums, I am addicted to Hive Mind. such a great album.

 
pavementtune is offline
Old 09-30-2018, 12:03 AM   #10
Vanity Must Die
Pledge
 
Posts: 149
Default

The demographics are shifting. If you went to any of the shows on the recent tour, it's obvious. Most of the people attending are easily 30+ and we're there because we grew up with them.

SP will never be as relevant as they were in the 90s, full stop. Time passes and the target audience changes. Either bands evolve or they don't, and the only thing that has worked for BC in the last decade has been throwback reunion stuff.

Truly doubt that BC being an idiot when it comes to politics has had much of an impact.

 
Vanity Must Die is offline
Old 09-30-2018, 12:14 AM   #11
WeilandFan
Apocalyptic Poster
 
WeilandFan's Avatar
 
Posts: 1,116
Default

I think you are right fuzzy when it comes to some past releases, but I think him 'playing ball' right now and not discussing his political views in-depth anymore makes that no longer the reason. Live Nation booked a huge tour, and I've heard Solara and Silvery Sometimes on KROQ a few times (if they were catchier they'd be played more).

It is very hypocritical though that he'd be penalized for voicing his political views when other artists out there who have opposing ones are rewarded. If I was a famous musician, I wouldn't voice my political views to the media. I'd only do it if I was paid, and paid well, to do it.

 
WeilandFan is offline
Old 09-30-2018, 12:46 AM   #12
FoolofaTook
Immortal
 
FoolofaTook's Avatar
 
Posts: 24,083
Default

What is hive mind pavetune? All I know is Sleep and, uh, Sleep.

 
FoolofaTook is offline
Old 09-30-2018, 01:21 AM   #13
Disco King
Minion of Satan
 
Disco King's Avatar
 
Location: Banned
Posts: 5,634
Default

The deep state is planning an assassination on Billow Crow Guy for speaking truth to power

 
Disco King is offline
Old 09-30-2018, 01:23 AM   #14
Zer0 Hour
Ownz
 
Zer0 Hour's Avatar
 
Posts: 590
Default

Here’s the thing about political views. You have every right to say whatever it is that’s on your mind when it comes to politics, but if you do, you need to be prepared for how it might alienate people that would normally be on your side. In the case of the Pumpkins, I think they made their mark in the 1990s appealing to people who are in touch with their emotions and deeply compassionate towards others. Their music also appealed a lot to the LGBTQ community back then. And so if you fall into one of those groups and you then see Billy hanging out with a pig like Alex Jones and defending Trump, you’re very likely going to be like, “Fuck this guy.” And it’s unlikely Billy’s Trumpy stance isn’t going to endear him to the MAGA idiots either, because those people probably wrote off SP long ago as too candyassed for their tastes or whatever.

And as for the music industry, they obviously notice that SP hasn’t had a hit in a long time, and likely aren’t going to do much to promote crap like Solara and Silvery Someoldbullshit because they know that those songs aren’t likely to click with mainstream audiences these days (or anyone, really). Yeah, the tour was a big hit so maybe SP will start to really chart again, but it feels doubtful at this point.

And as for the other bands being discussed... I wasn’t crazy about Bush’s last album but Man on the Run and Sea of Memories were better than Monuments, Teargarden, Oceania and Zeitgeist. And the latest STP album, even with a new lead singer, was better than those albums too. In my opinion, at least.

 
Zer0 Hour is offline
Old 09-30-2018, 01:25 AM   #15
Disco King
Minion of Satan
 
Disco King's Avatar
 
Location: Banned
Posts: 5,634
Default

Bigalowgun could have broken the H1N1 conspiracy wide open, but he didn't wanna be a dead hero.

George Soros is into him anway, and has already ordered FEMA and the NKVD to put a hit on him.

 
Disco King is offline
Old 09-30-2018, 01:29 AM   #16
fuzzyroes
Braindead
 
fuzzyroes's Avatar
 
Posts: 19,092
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by WeilandFan View Post
I think you are right fuzzy when it comes to some past releases, but I think him 'playing ball' right now and not discussing his political views in-depth anymore makes that no longer the reason. Live Nation booked a huge tour, and I've heard Solara and Silvery Sometimes on KROQ a few times (if they were catchier they'd be played more).

It is very hypocritical though that he'd be penalized for voicing his political views when other artists out there who have opposing ones are rewarded. If I was a famous musician, I wouldn't voice my political views to the media. I'd only do it if I was paid, and paid well, to do it.
Yeah, I definitely think there was some clause in the contract with Live Nation that clearly indicated that he can't talk any politics before or while the tour's taking place. Billy was an outspoken guy for years and now he's been totally by the books and seems super cognizant about not ruffling any feathers.... I think he realizes that it's his only chance at getting back in the "game" as they say.

Lord knows the whole media industry is INCREDIBLY liberal and there doesn't even seem to be any room for exceptions. In fact, I've read that there's a ton of conservative entertainers that are entirely private about it because they know they'll be blackballed if they're open about it.

But you look back at how Billy's career was in SHAMBLES and I really think it correlated with when he started speaking out about politics and appearing on different programs. Alex Jones said on a broadcast that he gets musicians telling him all the time that they're big fans and when he invite them to come on the show they tell him that they've been told that "it'll ruin your career"... So I think there's definitely forces at play in the music world forcing artists to keep their mouths shut.

Last edited by fuzzyroes : 09-30-2018 at 02:44 AM.

 
fuzzyroes is offline
Old 09-30-2018, 01:33 AM   #17
Zer0 Hour
Ownz
 
Zer0 Hour's Avatar
 
Posts: 590
Default

Yes, let’s trust the guy who says that Sandy Hook was a false flag and that chemicals are turning frogs gay when he says that many famous musicians love his show but are afraid to come on out of fear that they’ll be blackballed.

 
Zer0 Hour is offline
Old 09-30-2018, 01:36 AM   #18
Disco King
Minion of Satan
 
Disco King's Avatar
 
Location: Banned
Posts: 5,634
Default

"I love the free market and unfettered capitalism, but I also hate when the free market disincentivizes the public airing of shitty social opinions"
—Right-Wingers

 
Disco King is offline
Old 09-30-2018, 01:38 AM   #19
fuzzyroes
Braindead
 
fuzzyroes's Avatar
 
Posts: 19,092
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zer0 Hour View Post
Hereís the thing about political views. You have every right to say whatever it is thatís on your mind when it comes to politics, but if you do, you need to be prepared for how it might alienate people that would normally be on your side.
I think it's more complex than that. The entertainment industry is entangled with other big wigs who are societal influencers who definitely have a political agenda... If some guy like Corgan who was once a rock-star comes out and challenges the status-quo with ideology that challenges the establishment then it's really easy to make sure that he achieves no further success.

Would a talentless hack like Madonna have been able to have such a wildly successful career if she wasn't promoting the right social agenda?

Let's not pretend that it's all about the music here... As much as we all wish it was.

 
fuzzyroes is offline
Old 09-30-2018, 01:41 AM   #20
fuzzyroes
Braindead
 
fuzzyroes's Avatar
 
Posts: 19,092
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zer0 Hour View Post
Yes, let’s trust the guy who says thatthat chemicals are turning frogs gay when he says that many famous musicians love his show but are afraid to come on out of fear that they’ll be blackballed.
Statistics have shown that there's been higher rates of atrazine in the drinking supplies across the board... Here's a quote from a study from Berkley

"atrazine, one of the world’s most widely used pesticides, wreaks havoc with the sex lives of adult male frogs, emasculating three-quarters of them and turning one in 10 into females, according to a new study by University of California, Berkeley, biologists."

(sources)
http://news.berkeley.edu/2010/03/01/frogs/
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2842049/

Alex Jones has said some false crazy shit so I always find it weird when people always chose to mock the frogs thing. But look, this isn't about Alex Jones and I don't want this thread to get into it about him.

 
fuzzyroes is offline
Old 09-30-2018, 01:45 AM   #21
Oklahoma Sexual
Ownz
 
Oklahoma Sexual's Avatar
 
Posts: 818
Default

no, i don't

 
Oklahoma Sexual is offline
Old 09-30-2018, 01:52 AM   #22
Zer0 Hour
Ownz
 
Zer0 Hour's Avatar
 
Posts: 590
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by fuzzyroes View Post
Statistics have shown that there's been higher rates of atrazine in the drinking supplies across the board... Here's a quote from a study from Berkley

"atrazine, one of the world’s most widely used pesticides, wreaks havoc with the sex lives of adult male frogs, emasculating three-quarters of them and turning one in 10 into females, according to a new study by University of California, Berkeley, biologists."

(sources)
http://news.berkeley.edu/2010/03/01/frogs/
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2842049/

Alex Jones has said some false crazy shit so I always find it weird when people always chose to mock the frogs thing. But look, this isn't about Alex Jones and I don't want this thread to get into it about him.
People mock the frog thing because he took that information out of context and used it to fuel a bullshit conspiracy theory that the US government was deliberately poisoning the water to turn people gay. But fine, if that’s not crazy enough for you, let’s look at his claims that Michelle Obama is a man or that Hillary Clinton is a demonic interstellar invader.

We don’t have to talk more about him, but surely you can see why some people (fans and those in the music industry) would distance themselves from Billy after he began appearing on this man’s show.

 
Zer0 Hour is offline
Old 09-30-2018, 01:58 AM   #23
Disco King
Minion of Satan
 
Disco King's Avatar
 
Location: Banned
Posts: 5,634
Default

Alex Jones talks about more than things in the water turning the frogs freakin' ghey. Why does everyone only focus on the frogs being turned freakin' ghey?

He also talks about how Obama is a literal devil spawn who spits sulphur.

 
Disco King is offline
Old 09-30-2018, 02:07 AM   #24
SlingeroGuitaro
Starbucks addicted minion
 
SlingeroGuitaro's Avatar
 
Location: Billy Corgan Kazoo Revue
Posts: 6,559
Default

If you have a chance to invest $10 into a product with the possibility of a $15 return or a $5 loss you night take that chance once. If you lose more than your initial investment over the life of that product you likely stop supporting it.

Yes, this is a conspiracy.

 
SlingeroGuitaro is offline
Old 09-30-2018, 02:17 AM   #25
Skradgee
Boardcaster
 
Skradgee's Avatar
 
Location: reporting live
Posts: 3,519
Default

Do you think...the conspiracy theory industries, are trying to undermine our actual internal intentions, and we're all actually just interacting together, blissfully unaware of what we think about how our own actual awareness...is really seamlessly moving along from dreams to daydreams, and back again, only to arrive alive at back at the personal attacks we inflict upon theories of conspiracy theories?

Just something to think about.

 
Skradgee is offline
Old 09-30-2018, 02:18 AM   #26
fuzzyroes
Braindead
 
fuzzyroes's Avatar
 
Posts: 19,092
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zer0 Hour View Post
We donít have to talk more about him, but surely you can see why some people (fans and those in the music industry) would distance themselves from Billy after he began appearing on this manís show.
I don't get it at all. It should be about the music. Some of the biggest scumbags ever have been given a platform because their music is great. I've watched Billy's appearances on the Infowars platform, they're all very sane and measured.

I don't think someone should be pushed away because they chose to do a few interviews on a controversial program.

If you think about it, what popular artists are out there really challenging the political system anymore? There is none... And I certainly don't mean artists who challenge 1 political party... Where are the artists looking for a revolution of the system? It doesn't exist anymore...

That's precisely the connection I'm getting at. Those who control the music industry want their artists to stay in line and follow the narrative.

 
fuzzyroes is offline
Old 09-30-2018, 02:22 AM   #27
fuzzyroes
Braindead
 
fuzzyroes's Avatar
 
Posts: 19,092
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Disco King View Post
Alex Jones talks about more than things in the water turning the frogs freakin' ghey. Why does everyone only focus on the frogs being turned freakin' ghey?

He also talks about how Obama is a literal devil spawn who spits sulphur.
Please, I don't want this conversation to devolve into an Alex Jones debate. When Alex talks about demons and stuff, it's all metaphysical talk. It's not meant to be taken literally.

There's a lot of new age philosophers who talk with the same metaphysical metaphors... I think it was actually originally made famous by the satanists themselves. If you read any of Allister Crowleys work he talks about psychic vampires and other such metaphorical analogies...He's not talking about Dracula here.

 
fuzzyroes is offline
Old 09-30-2018, 02:29 AM   #28
fuzzyroes
Braindead
 
fuzzyroes's Avatar
 
Posts: 19,092
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Skradgee View Post
Do you think...the conspiracy theory industries, are trying to undermine our actual internal intentions, and we're all actually just interacting together, blissfully unaware of what we think about how our own actual awareness...is really seamlessly moving along from dreams to daydreams, and back again, only to arrive alive at back at the personal attacks we inflict upon theories of conspiracy theories?

Just something to think about.
Nicely put. A lot of things just serve as a distraction in ones journey. It's something I think about a lot.

I think a lot of conspiracy theorists purposely overreact and maybe a lot of the followers get anxiety and take it all at face value... I don't know, it's never been the type of person I've been. I take things with a grain of salt, consider things that ring true and investigate further and disregard the rest while enjoying the entertainment factor of it all.

I actually think the analogy of Alex Jones being a performance artist is perfectly apt. There's definitely truth in what he's saying and that's the interesting part but he ramps it up with this wrestling personality. Someone here mentioned to me once that they see Alex in the same light as a John Oliver or Jon Stewart... It's comedy mixed with political insight... So of course it's going to be sensationalized.

 
fuzzyroes is offline
Old 09-30-2018, 02:34 AM   #29
fuzzyroes
Braindead
 
fuzzyroes's Avatar
 
Posts: 19,092
Default

My friends, consider this:

Look at Eddie Veddar. Every piece of crap he puts out ends up getting ample radio play and mainstream attention... Same thing with Dave Grohl, but yet Corgan can't score some airplay with his life depending on it. Songs like One And All, That's the way, Drum And Fife have been a lot better than the drivel that those artists get radio play with.

I know we like to hate on Billy. He's an easy target. But really, I think he's being discriminated against by the industry... Now Billy is trying to say "See! I can be good, I can walk the line, I know my role! Can you let me back in the 'boys club' now!?"

 
fuzzyroes is offline
Old 09-30-2018, 03:31 AM   #30
Reyngel
Apocalyptic Poster
 
Location: Seattle
Posts: 3,395
Default

Man... is it all really that convoluted? Seems to me that it's just:

-The songs he's written in the last few years aren't anything great
-The songs he's written in the last few years aren't about topics that are in any way relatable. Gone are the days where he wrote songs about approachable topics like relationship woes, and other normal life struggles. How many people actually feel any kind of emotion about whatever the fuck Silvery Sometimes is about?
-His vibrato singing style over the last 15 years is atrocious and isn't in any way marketable to the mainstream

Billy's riffs, composition, piano playing and desire to continue making music are really great. But unless he becomes more approachable, gets rid of the terrible singing, and writes songs that aren't as cryptic and contrived, he'll continue being mediocre at best in the public eye.

 
Reyngel is offline
Closed Thread


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Google


Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 05:33 AM.



Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.8
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.

Smashing Pumpkins, Alternative Music
& General Discussion Message Board and Forums
www.netphoria.org - Copyright © 1998-2014