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View Poll Results: Witch is it?
Adoor 27 46.55%
Masheena 22 37.93%
lol u suck foolf 9 15.52%
Voters: 58. You may not vote on this poll

 
 
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Old 10-25-2018, 10:55 AM   #61
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Just listened to Machina again last night because of this poll and man, I just cannot get into it that much

Adore, I listen to all the way through every time and I'm straight shook by the time Blank Page starts up

Machina has some good tunes but a lot of, pardon me, dross

 
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Old 10-25-2018, 11:15 AM   #62
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Originally Posted by paranoid View Post
Adore’s worst songs are better than machina’s best songs.
Fixed.

 
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Old 10-25-2018, 11:24 AM   #63
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Originally Posted by Razor Star View Post
To me Machina was the biggest surprise. I was prepped for Adore, I kind of knew what to expect from all the stuff Billy had been saying in interviews for at least two years, and especially around the release. I knew more or less that Adore was soft-electronica and quiet. Machina was a bigger surprise because the chat was all around "returning to rock" and sounding like Sabbath, and when you heard TEG and SIYL in advance of the album they sounded like classic Pumpkins songs. I wasn't really prepared for Rainbows + Sunshowers, GATGC or The Imploding Voice,all the really dense, esoteric stuff. Billy described Machina last year as "so fucking weird", and he's right... it took me a while to get it, but I came to really love that record.
To each his own, but I'm definitely not a fan of the product overall (Machina I at least). I know some people love songs like Sacred & Profane and Wound but for the life of me, I can't get into them at all. The strangest thing about Machina to me is that it somehow sounds insanely overproduced and complicated and yet half-assed at the same time. That statement seems to defy the bounds of reality and yet somehow it is so. Like, Billy got so lost in his "Machina mystery" and creating his "wall of sound" that he forgot to put much actual effort into most of the songs themselves.

Like in Wound, he has that stupid line, "Last night I turned around and thought I saw myself turning." He seriously couldn't think of another word so that he didn't have to use "turn" twice in the same line? Or his "let me die for rock n' roll" line in HMM. Or saying "everywhere you are" 5 million fucking times in The Imploding Voice. I realize I'm being very nitpicky here but lyrically, I just found most of the album to be garbage.

Now, a lot of the stuff on Machina II, in contrast, I really dig. And not just because a lot of it is heavier than MI; I just found many of the songs to be more interesting, both lyrically and musically. How you could leave a beautiful piece of music like Speed Kills (either version) off of the album but in-clude an excruciating piece of excrement like The Crying Tree of Mercury, I'll never know. Or how you could record THREE versions of Blue Skies Bring Tears and somehow choose the one that SUCKS to put on the album. Only Billy could do that.

 
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Old 10-25-2018, 11:30 AM   #64
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Originally Posted by Corgan's Bluff View Post
The later live acoustic version matches way better with the song:

The Machina Acoustic Demos are pretty good too https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eI_wQAO5Qn8

 
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Old 10-25-2018, 11:43 AM   #65
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Originally Posted by MonumentsRocks View Post
The Machina Acoustic Demos are pretty good too https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eI_wQAO5Qn8
You can be banned for linking to stolen material. So you know.

MODS BAN MONUMENTSROCKS

 
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Old 10-25-2018, 11:44 AM   #66
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He should be banned just for having that name.

 
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Old 10-25-2018, 12:02 PM   #67
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Originally Posted by Zer0 Hour View Post
Fixed.
S'not true

Y'fuckin up

 
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Old 10-25-2018, 01:04 PM   #68
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I don't think Machina ever quite hits the heights Adore does with For Martha and Night Mare, but it's a weird comparison. One's this grueling, intimate work informed by the loss of a parent, a divorce, and loss of a friend and integral band member, one's an incomplete, neutered grandiose rock opera with overt religious themes that's half overproduced and half comprised of rough mixes. One is an emotional experience in that it's harrowing, the other can only be really called that by virtue of its historical context, in that it felt like a goodbye - and it still kind of feels like that when I listen to it, despite everything afterwards.

The fact that the poll is so divided is great.

 
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Old 10-25-2018, 01:05 PM   #69
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Who the fuck gave this thread less than five stars??

This some ol' b0llshit!

 
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Old 10-25-2018, 01:09 PM   #70
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Who the fuck gave this thread less than five stars??

This some ol' b0llshit!
Führer. Führer than five stars.

 
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Old 10-25-2018, 01:11 PM   #71
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The fact that the poll is so divided is great.
Pumpkin's music seems to bring together a lot of people who'd otherwise have nothing in common. I'd be surprised if there was a more acrimonious fan base. I guess it's reflective of the band's own internal dysfunction.

Speaking of dysfunction, I just saw this for the first time last night https://youtu.be/9u6OsvDhEig?t=2130 , Billy berating both Iha, and entire crowd of Japanese fans, in four awkward minutes. At one point they pan over to Melissa and she looks stone faced. A lot of people say Billy is an asshole, but a lot of people say he's friendly, then you see footage like this, there's not question he's an asshole.

Last edited by MonumentsRocks : 10-25-2018 at 01:20 PM.

 
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Old 10-25-2018, 01:11 PM   #72
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Originally Posted by Mals Marola View Post
S'not true

Y'fuckin up
Ya said This Time is your favorite SP song. You so crazy

 
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Old 10-25-2018, 01:29 PM   #73
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Führer. Führer than five stars.
damn you got me good

 
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Old 10-25-2018, 01:30 PM   #74
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This is how I feel, I'm cold and I am shamed
Lying naked on the floor

 
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Old 10-25-2018, 01:44 PM   #75
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Originally Posted by Woody View Post
Billy can’t admit this though. He came close on VHS Storytellers when he said 1979 was chosen because nine was easy to work into a rhyme scheme.
Another funny(ish) example is the Howard Stern interview, Howard goes on for a minute about what he thinks "Monuments to an Elegy" means, then Billy just says like "that's more thought than I put into it."

Absurd lyrics are fine if they're enjoyable, but then again its hard to define what is enjoyable gibberish. I don't mind his tendency to repeats words on a Machina, like the lyrics to "Home" were based around repeating words. It was just an aesthetic he wanted to mess with, I like it.

 
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Old 10-25-2018, 01:47 PM   #76
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Originally Posted by Zer0 Hour View Post
Ya said This Time is your favorite SP song. You so crazy
you're right what I really meant to say was Cherub Rock tied w/ 1979

 
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Old 10-25-2018, 02:04 PM   #77
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LOL look at this basic fanboi liking the singles best

My favorite song is "Saviour Self" from the Machina sessions which no one including me has ever heard, it's that rare and that cool to say you like the best

Second place is definitely one of the snippets from Pastichio Medley which I could definitely name off the top of my head but choose not to for reasons

 
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Old 10-25-2018, 02:40 PM   #78
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MonumentsRocks View Post
Pumpkin's music seems to bring together a lot of people who'd otherwise have nothing in common. I'd be surprised if there was a more acrimonious fan base. I guess it's reflective of the band's own internal dysfunction.

Speaking of dysfunction, I just saw this for the first time last night https://youtu.be/9u6OsvDhEig?t=2130 , Billy berating both Iha, and entire crowd of Japanese fans, in four awkward minutes. At one point they pan over to Melissa and she looks stone faced. A lot of people say Billy is an asshole, but a lot of people say he's friendly, then you see footage like this, there's not question he's an asshole.
James raw man too:


 
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Old 10-25-2018, 03:01 PM   #79
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James raw man too:

What the fuck is/was with them? Every other band seems to have figure this out. It's not hard. "Thank you Japan! We love being here! You have a beautiful country, the cutest girls and the best seafood on the Pacific rim, it's a shame we can't stay. You always were our best fans!" the crowd cheers, you're all done.

 
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Old 10-25-2018, 03:46 PM   #80
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Will anyone engage with me on my half-formed idea that With Every Light is completely deceptive and is actually about Glass getting suckered in by the Gnostic, false, God

Aside from the fact that all the other songs (possibly not AoI) are dire and dark as hell and suddenly WEL is all sunshine and lollipops, you have two key lines:

"Could you believe in Heaven if Heaven was all you had?" (Seems like he believes he's in Heaven now, so why question it?)

"Away with anything that holds you sane" (Like I dunno dude, those things seem worth keeping unless you're surrendering to a higher power who may or may not have your best interests at heart)

If I ever catch Billy's question and answer period Imma ask him about this, as well as I can with the like 40 characters you get

 
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Old 10-25-2018, 03:48 PM   #81
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topleybird: the meth years

 
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Old 10-25-2018, 03:48 PM   #82
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http://forums.netphoria.org/customav...atar8118_1.gif

 
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Old 10-25-2018, 04:14 PM   #83
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IT'S A SOLID THEORY

 
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Old 10-25-2018, 04:16 PM   #84
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Glass is Billy, so any song about Glass is really about Billy.

To me the song has contradictory messages interwoven in the verse and choruses, 1) death is great, you're relieved of all your worries 2) life is great, if you ignore all your worries.

Last edited by MonumentsRocks : 10-25-2018 at 04:22 PM.

 
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Old 10-25-2018, 04:39 PM   #85
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Monuments doesn't rock. Nothing you have to say is believable due to your handle. Also I am Frida Kahlo.

 
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Old 10-25-2018, 05:02 PM   #86
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MonumentsRocks View Post
Glass is Billy, so any song about Glass is really about Billy
You don't say

 
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Old 10-25-2018, 05:08 PM   #87
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Glass is meth, dude.

 
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Old 10-25-2018, 05:10 PM   #88
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You know I never realised that until today. Do you think Zero might be Billy? I know it's a stretch. But just imagine.

 
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Old 10-25-2018, 05:12 PM   #89
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billy was into meth. this is a fact. speed, speed kills, glass and the ghost..., glass' theme, spun soundtrack, the everlasting gaze vid, all this shit spells M-E-T-H. oh yeah also he was really skinny.

 
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Old 10-25-2018, 07:00 PM   #90
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zer0 Hour View Post

Like in Wound, he has that stupid line, "Last night I turned around and thought I saw myself turning." He seriously couldn't think of another word so that he didn't have to use "turn" twice in the same line?
I love this line. I get this imagery of someone turning around a watching themselves acting outside of themselves... Like they turned around and watched themselves act, without feeling in control of it. Like he suddenly had a 3rd person viewpoint. Especially with the next line;

Last night I turned around and thought I saw myself turning
Inside the strangest dream of life unloved and cities burning

seriously love wound.

 
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