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Old 08-27-2017, 11:49 PM   #211
scottytheoneand
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Audrey's Dance!!!!

 
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Old 08-27-2017, 11:53 PM   #212
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Old 08-27-2017, 11:54 PM   #213
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bonnie you might as well start watching season 3 now it's over next sunday

 
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Old 08-28-2017, 12:04 AM   #214
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I may not

 
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Old 08-28-2017, 12:04 AM   #215
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[IMG]https://img.buzzfeed.com/buzzfeed-static/static/2017-05/22/6/asset/buzzfeed-prod-fastlane-03/sub-buzz-9538-1495449458-1.jpg?downsize=715:*&output-format=auto&output-quality=auto[/IMG]

 
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Old 08-28-2017, 09:00 AM   #216
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:-) ALL

 
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Old 08-28-2017, 01:53 PM   #217
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is the real Diane dead? in the lodge?

 
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Old 08-28-2017, 01:54 PM   #218
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interesting that when she was shot, she was sucked away to the lodge like the real Dougie was, but when evilCoop was shot he fell down and apparently died before the woodsmen intervened

 
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Old 08-28-2017, 02:20 PM   #219
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Pretty sure that's down to a difference between Tulpas and Doppelgangers. Tulpas whoosh off while Doppelgangers just bite it. Or maybe having BOB within him gave him more resilience.

What interests me is what this says about Laura in E1, because she whooshed off.

 
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Old 08-28-2017, 07:45 PM   #220
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shadaloo View Post
Pretty sure that's down to a difference between Tulpas and Doppelgangers. Tulpas whoosh off while Doppelgangers just bite it. Or maybe having BOB within him gave him more resilience.

What interests me is what this says about Laura in E1, because she whooshed off.
I am with you on the tulpa/doppel dichotomy. I have said all along the doppelgangers are as real as their counterparts in this world. They are like mirror images. "You ARE Cooper," is what Jeffries said, and evilCoop remembered the day Jeffries visited the bureau, which was experienced by the "real" agent dale cooper.

Tulpas seem to be made from those golden marbles called seeds, and although they seem like real living breathing people, they are not natural, like the blue rose. Which leads us to questions where is the REAL Diane, and is Audrey in the lodge? evilCoop raped Diane and made a tulpa of her, we now know for sure he also raped Audrey...

as for Laura I would have to rewatch, but I don't think she was "sucked" away exactly the same way. She shot off toward the ceiling but the effect and sound wasn't the same IIRC

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Old 09-01-2017, 04:42 PM   #221
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Nsfw
https://www.kink.com/shoot/41735

 
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Old 09-04-2017, 08:59 AM   #222
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It was all a dream

 
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Old 09-04-2017, 12:05 PM   #223
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What year is it?
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Old 09-04-2017, 01:39 PM   #224
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It's either past or future.

 
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Old 09-04-2017, 06:13 PM   #225
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I feel ill.

 
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Old 09-04-2017, 06:14 PM   #226
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I love how elusive everything is. Just when you think you have a grasp, it slips out of your fingers again. Answering one questions leads to 10 more.

 
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Old 09-04-2017, 06:15 PM   #227
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Old 09-05-2017, 01:11 AM   #228
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there's really nothing to be said. it just happened and that's that.

 
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Old 09-05-2017, 07:23 AM   #229
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Quote:
Originally Posted by slunken View Post
I love how elusive everything is. Just when you think you have a grasp, it slips out of your fingers again. Answering one questions leads to 10 more.
It's all very clear. Just follow the clues.

 
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Old 09-05-2017, 08:05 AM   #230
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Lol

 
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Old 09-05-2017, 09:36 AM   #231
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Seriously.

Cooper's head which is superimposed over the whole scene in Truman's office is a clue that it was all a dream (aside from the fact that Phillip Jeffries stated it in FWWM, as well as Cole's dream).

Then go back and decode the events that started and ended the dream itself. You'll see that Episode 18 was another dream, as well as a third shorter dream in Episode 1.

 
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Old 09-05-2017, 12:52 PM   #232
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Lol.

Mystery solved!! Everyone can go home! There are no more questions to answer or any other multi-layered themes to explore!!!

 
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Old 09-05-2017, 02:59 PM   #233
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I think Cooper was "the dreamer," but I don't believe anything we witnessed was a dream in the literal sense. The confusion between dreams and other worlds has always been part of Twin Peaks. Cooper dreamed up this new universe, but it was also real. Remember that in the original series, Hawk says he believes in different souls; one for the waking world, and others that walk in different worlds, or in dreams.

In short I don't think there is supposed to be a definite answer, and in fact the last hour went to great lengths to show us that there is no clear division between fantasy and reality, dreams and the waking world, the light and dark worlds, the future and the past, etc.

What I personally think from my first viewing of the finale is that Cooper entered a parallel timeline which he created, which has also always existed alongside the original timeline which is still intact as well ("I am dead and yet I live" cause both are true in different worlds). It is totally unclear what the actual relation of this timeline to the original is. He pulled Laura Palmer out of the original timeline but her not meeting Jacques and Leo didn't just alter her story, it made her a different person, erased her parents, and changed the actual identities of others (Diane for example) so it wasn't just a clean cause and effect thing. Whatever he did created a totally tangential universe. HOWEVER, regardless of exactly what happened, the original timeline is not wiped away entirely or gone forever which is evidenced by 1. Cooper's memory of it, 2. the distant sound of Sarah calling Laura at the Palmer house and 3.) Laura screaming as she remembers her old identity

 
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Old 09-05-2017, 03:03 PM   #234
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My biggest question about how it ended was WHAT was the intended outcome of this switch? Cooper seemed to be acting out a plan which Mike and the Giant were both aiding in. He had a clear goal in altering things and we know it had something to do with Judy who we know pretty much for sure was in Sarah, but then the Tremonds living in the Palmer house indicated something gone wrong, or the plan failing in some way I think.

 
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Old 09-05-2017, 04:13 PM   #235
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Quote:
Originally Posted by redbreegull View Post
I think Cooper was "the dreamer," but I don't believe anything we witnessed was a dream in the literal sense. The confusion between dreams and other worlds has always been part of Twin Peaks. Cooper dreamed up this new universe, but it was also real. Remember that in the original series, Hawk says he believes in different souls; one for the waking world, and others that walk in different worlds, or in dreams.

In short I don't think there is supposed to be a definite answer, and in fact the last hour went to great lengths to show us that there is no clear division between fantasy and reality, dreams and the waking world, the light and dark worlds, the future and the past, etc.

What I personally think from my first viewing of the finale is that Cooper entered a parallel timeline which he created, which has also always existed alongside the original timeline which is still intact as well ("I am dead and yet I live" cause both are true in different worlds). It is totally unclear what the actual relation of this timeline to the original is. He pulled Laura Palmer out of the original timeline but her not meeting Jacques and Leo didn't just alter her story, it made her a different person, erased her parents, and changed the actual identities of others (Diane for example) so it wasn't just a clean cause and effect thing. Whatever he did created a totally tangential universe. HOWEVER, regardless of exactly what happened, the original timeline is not wiped away entirely or gone forever which is evidenced by 1. Cooper's memory of it, 2. the distant sound of Sarah calling Laura at the Palmer house and 3.) Laura screaming as she remembers her old identity
No, I don't agree with the parallel timeline idea, and I believe we are all literally witnessing a dream. I'm taking into account typical Lynchian archetypes in most of his other films--particularity the last three films he's made, Inland Empire, Mulholland Drive and Lost Highway. We're talking:
- separate sections of the same film, separated by a specific event
- the separate sections will have different pacing, tone and even acting idiosyncrasies from the same actors
- separate sections are most often denoting a dream state or psychological disassociation from the protagonist
- visual/audio clues Lynch leaves to denote which separate section is the reality

So with this in mind, Episode 18 took on an entirely different tone, pacing, etc; it was separated by an event (Coop leaving the Lodge); featured the same characters who transformed into someone one else, leaving only Coop aware of this. Even Cooper was acting differently, almost a combination of the Good and Bad Coop. Familiar faces were unaware of their counterparts, and there were little Easter eggs strewn about that connected the two realities, that the characters could only vaguely recognize.

I've never seen Lynch delve into alternate timelines or parallel dimensions, it's almost always dreamscapes. The events are all one "timeline" but might partially exist in the mind of another character. Take into consideration:
- In FWWM, Phillip Jeffries claims the lodge inhabitants live within a dream
- Monica Bellucci's claim that we are all living within a dream (but who is the dreamer?)
- Coop claims this is all a dream in Episode 17
- The Arm in Episode 18 asks Coop if he knows "the story" of the girl who lived on the lane. His identifying it as "a story" implies it's own fabrication within the show itself
- the very first shot of Episode 1 is Laura in the Red Room, telling Coop she'll see him again in 25 years. And then she says "Meanwhile..." Cut to black. Then the episode proceeds. Translation: "Meanwhile, why you're here stuck in The Red Room, this is what you are dreaming..."

So my theory is that a mortal's fate in The Red Room is to exist in a dream state, possibly eternally. That is what is happening in Season 3. Nothing actually happened, except what Coop imagined. Might be hard to swallow, but as aforementioned Lynch offers a few clues that Episodes 1-17 are a dream:
- Coop's head superimposed onto the scene in Truman's office. This is the smoking gun.
- Sudden logical inconsistencies and dues ex machinas, untypical of Lynch (How did Coop know Freddie's name? Is it reaosnable that Cole/Coop/Briggs just conveniently knew about Judy all along but only now is telling us the audience?). Suspension of disbelief is breaking down because it's being reveled as Coop's dream all along
- The rather plastic, unreal and exaggerated behavior of several characters throughout Episodes 10-17 (Lucy, Andy, Hawk, Tina, etc). This is comparable to the Betty Helms half of Mulholland Drive or the Nikki Grace third of Inland Empire.
- The progressively over-the-top and honestly stereotype, un-Lynchian "Hollywood Ending" of Episode 17, even resulting Coop going back in time to save Laura Palmer?? In a series initially meant to poke fun at ridiculous serial TV shows, this is obviously the final poke, and is not the reality inside the show itself.

So thus if most all of the season we just saw was a dream, when did it start? When did it end? After rewatching, there are some re-occuring events that seem to bookend these dreams:
- the dream begins with Mike asking "Is this past or future?" (possibly introducing the setting of the dream)
- the dream ends with Laura screaming (possibly waking Cooper up)

So with this in mind, it seems Cooper has had three continuous dreams although Season 3:
1) At the beginning of Episode 1, Mike asks Coop "Is this past or is this future?" Then Mike disappears, Laura saunters in and the two chat briefly, reprising some dialog from Season 2. Laura opens her face to white light, then she is pulled upwards, screaming. Curtains open to vast nothing, only a white horse representing death remains.
2) Then the scene resets to Mike, again asking "Is it past or future?" and he leads him to the next evolution of The Arm, and the series unfolds as we know it with Coop escaping and being trapped in Dougie. Coop eventually comes out of it, Freddie defeats BOB at the Sheriff Dept, Coop goes back in time and prevents Laura's death. But then Laura screams.
3) Once again, the scene inexplicably resets back to The Red Room, with Mike again asking "Is it past or future?" and he leads him to the next evolution of The Arm and the episodes unfolds differently. He finds Dianne, they drive into a portal and go into a dream-like section of the series, loses Dianne, finds Laura/Carrie, goes to Laura's old house. After these characters refuse to acknowledge this reality isn't what Coop knows, he asks what year is it. Laura screams and the screen goes blank. The end.

As you can see, not only was Episodes 1-17 a dream (with a short dream preamble in Episode 1), but Episode 18 was another dream. I am willing to bet if the show hadn't cut to black after that final moment of Episode 18, we would have seen Cooper once again back in The Red Room, and Mike asking him "Is it past or future?"

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Old 09-05-2017, 05:59 PM   #236
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I don't buy that basically because of what I already pointed out: that Twin Peaks purposely and consciously shows us that the dividing lines between worlds we inhabit (such as reality and dreams) are more tenuous than we think. The original series rotated on the device of Cooper and Laura Palmer having met each other at different points in their own timelines in the same dream, which is in fact a reality inside a different world. And again throughout this series, there are many references to the blurring of dreams and reality. The dreamer dreams and then lives inside the dream, but by living in the dream, something real is happening. Real life is happening in that dream. Dreamworlds in Twin Peaks are almost never just happening inside someone's head, so I think the interpretation that the whole thing was literally a dream that never existed in any way outside Cooper's mind is kind of a simple interpretation and I just feel it's very un-Lynch to do something like that. It seems much more likely it is intentionally impenetrable in its realness or fakeness.

Think about Audrey's story. She SEEMS to be asleep or in some kind of state of mental imprisonment, yet she is aware of characters living and breathing in the real Twin Peaks, and she even goes to the roadhouse although it is unclear whether she is really there, or if she is, if it's the same roadhouse we see in all the other roadhouse scenes. She says to Charlie that sometimes when things happen in dreams, they come true. The dreamer dreams and then lives inside the dream.

 
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Old 09-05-2017, 06:06 PM   #237
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It is 100% not a dream, as RBG stated, in a literal sense. I agree with a lot of what SLN is saying, except for two things: the literal interpretation of the word "dream" and the statement that "I've never seen Lynch delve into alternate timelines or parallel dimensions. it's almost always dreamscapes". I think these are, for better or worse, all the same thing.

I think a lot of what Lynch focuses on, starting with Lost Highway is what happens when those dreamworlds or other realities begin to merge with what a character thinks or knows of as real.

I think when Cooper was leading Sarah from the woods, Judy snatched her up and sent her to another reality, while the past of TP was changed. Jeffries showed that the Owl symbol was also an infinity symbol. Cooper and Diane find a way to jump into another reality, worried that they won't recognize each other. Diane doesn't recognize Cooper anymore and thinks he is a man named Richard. In this reality Laura still has trouble surrounding her. He tries to bring her home, where that reality doesn't exist anymore.

Quote:
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I am willing to bet if the show hadn't cut to black after that final moment of Episode 18, we would have seen Cooper once again back in The Red Room, and Mike asking him "Is it past or future?"
It's an infinite cycle of Cooper trying to change the past to effect the future. He made a mistake by going into the past to try and save Laura. Obviously Laura can never die because she was created and sent here for a reason. Cooper tried to "save" her out of his own selfish needs. We saw him "fail" to save Laura twice in Part 18. It can never happen. It will be an infinite cycle.

But as far as it being the dreams of a sleeping man, I don't buy it. The Lodges exist. Philip Jefferies and Garland Briggs traveled time. Why would Cooper be dreaming these inconsequential scenes with Ben and Jerry Horne? Or why would he be dreaming of Audrey to exist in the manner in which she has? Why would Audrey wake up from another person's dream? Where's Annie in his dreams?

My initial point earlier was that the show demands multiple interpretations and will always force you to ask questions. There will never be a cut and dry answer. That's the fun of Twin Peaks.

Obviously there was a lot to take in during the final 2 hours and I'm still trying to mentally unpack everything that happened.

 
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Old 09-05-2017, 06:13 PM   #238
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But also yea part 18 does loop back to part 1. Is it future or is it past? Doesn't matter because the same things keep happening.

 
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Old 09-05-2017, 06:51 PM   #239
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Thinking a bit more on this: if the dream idea works for you, then it works for you. Personally I find it unsatisfying. But thats not to say its completely wrong. If it were a dream, it would change absolutely nothing about what happened and the questions surrounding it. This is all open to many levels of interpretation.

And its not like there was a UHF-esque scene where Lauras head turns into a hamburger patty and then the camera zooms out and you find out its all been the daydream of real life Cooper, fast food burger chef.

 
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Old 09-05-2017, 07:20 PM   #240
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the fact that this will drive people crazy for years makes me love it even more

 
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