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Old 10-16-2007, 01:46 PM   #1
wpc33
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Post Why Adore failed

I agree with most here that Adore is a great album, but it was ill-advised. It singlehandedly ruined their career. Maybe not forever, but nothing else has hurt the Pumpkins more(and that's saying quite alot).
I'm not trying to be negative, just analyzing the reaction to Adore.
The album has little focus, and should've been the basis for two albums. Don't worry, no "dream adore playlist" here.

For everyone but the scarce diehards, it served to confuse, alienate and offend. I feel it's one of the best albums I've ever heard, though everything but the quality of the songs themselves was lacking and rushed.

As a whole piece, adore is a sloppy compilation of its insular era. Not a genuine album in the sense that the previous ones were in spades.

Adore is where Billy's vision rubbed everyone the wrong way. Billy had so much confidence in Adore because the songs were great. He didn't, however, realize the lack of cohesion in the album as a whole, nor how to actually please the listener for a steady hour+, let alone an audience with such anticipation. Corgan was indeed nominated as the saviour of popular music, and was written off as a fluke by the more ignorant majority who didn't have the patience or intrigue to pay attention to 80mins of random new work. Adore was like the movie "Leonard Part 6" (only good).

Remember in Alien3 when the Alien dies by being first covered with molten lead, then sprayed with cold water, and it explodes....fans+mcis+adore....'nuff said



this is the 100th thread on this topic, but I think I have something to say.

 
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Old 10-16-2007, 01:47 PM   #2
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I thought it was because it wasn't about Califawnyuh?

 
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Old 10-16-2007, 01:48 PM   #3
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LOTS of people think Adore is the BEST sp album....


it keeps my attention.
it's no cock rock album i'll agree.

 
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Old 10-16-2007, 01:50 PM   #4
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Adore was my new favorite album the day I heard it and still ranks high. It took me years to get why so many people told me that year that it "blows goats". They're wrong, but I understand. I love SP, they only dug 'em. Friendship & marriage

 
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Old 10-16-2007, 01:50 PM   #5
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If only Billy had kept one hand in his pocket, while the other gave a peace sign

 
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Old 10-16-2007, 01:51 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stripes
If only Billy had kept one hand in his pocket, while the other gave a peace sign
Yeah or had other people write hits for him like Alanis, Aerosmith & Metallica

Adore was basically the sophomore slump. All that pressure, all those ideas, the desire to do it all in one fell swoop

 
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Old 10-16-2007, 01:58 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wpc33
Adore was basically the sophomore slump. All that pressure, all those ideas, the desire to do it all in one fell swoop
it was their 4th studio album, how could it be their sophomore slump!!?

but wpc33, i like your original post, it was well written and made good sence.

 
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Old 10-16-2007, 02:01 PM   #8
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The first smashing pumpkin song i ever heard was ava adore and it got me into the pumpkins to begin with. At the time i didn't realize there was a time when billy had hair either. I just assumed he always bald.
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Old 10-16-2007, 02:03 PM   #9
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billy thought that by that point, everyone would be eating out of his hand and would buy adore REGARDLESS of its content. he expected to be praised for being revolutionary...to say "ohh look these hard rock kids are now listening to sensitive electro-pop thanks to the immeasurable influence of billy corgan". he felt invincible and was crushed/appalled when he didn't get the reaction he expected. the music has suffered ever since then.

 
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Old 10-16-2007, 02:07 PM   #10
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how can you say adore isn't cohesive? its about 5 times more cohesive than mellon collie, and at least twice as good.

 
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Old 10-16-2007, 02:08 PM   #11
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a lot of the album sounds pretty dated and it's only 9 years old.

 
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Old 10-16-2007, 02:08 PM   #12
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it would be rejected no matter what since it didn't have Jimmy, Billy was bald, and all the cock was taken out of his rock, and left shaking on the floor.

But i think that, like you said, part of that could be remedied with a better song selection (like subbing in more Ava Adore sounding songs [that is if they were good; i'm thinking full band Satellites]), and less emphasis on the new "gothic" look and style the band was going for.

Even still, it's a piano album. Who in the general public is going to understand that?

(I seriously don't get why Frusciante would diss it though. I mean, how is he NOT experimental? - Okay, it wasn't him)

 
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Old 10-16-2007, 02:08 PM   #13
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adore did not fail the world failed, THE WORLD FAILED.

 
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Old 10-16-2007, 02:20 PM   #14
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Hell yeah
Quote:
Originally Posted by baa
how can you say adore isn't cohesive? its about 5 times more cohesive than mellon collie, and at least twice as good.
It just doesn't make the immediate sense strung together that even MCIS felt. To Forgive & Fuck You belonged on the same album. They were of the same ilk, aesthetically. "The Ghosts Of Gish" were not on speaking terms with Billy by '98

Quote:
Originally Posted by smashkin33
it was their 4th studio album, how could it be their sophomore slump!!?
"basically" as in, the equivalent of

 
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Old 10-16-2007, 02:22 PM   #15
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you may be joking ted, but you're still right.


I'm glad billy made adore. for once he wasn't thinking 'maybe i should do what the mainstream fans want and make mellon collie all over again'. Good job, making an album that was close to his heart. I love it, and wish he'd show as much heart in the future.

 
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Old 10-16-2007, 02:27 PM   #16
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in a selfish way, i am glad the pumpkins didn't maintain their crazy mainstream fame. it's nice to have a favorite band that isn't force-fed to everyone via the popular media
... i suppose.

 
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Old 10-16-2007, 02:28 PM   #17
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i personally think Adore is the finest piece of music corgan has ever released.
imo every pumpkins album up until machina i&ii (many would beg to differ, i know) has its own artistic merit and is a fantastic album. but adore is a work of art that came straight from the bottom of the heart. i strongly disagree about any complaints that its noncohesive, or that it feels rushed.
i guess im truly biased because that album ranks way up there in my favourite albums\works of art of all time...
but still, i do think it flows exceedingly well from song to song, and there is (to me) not a weak track on the album. although i could see how people might dislike certain tracks - its not as slick as SD tracklist wise, thats true.. but it still has a very good flow.
i also dont really understand the comments about the rushed production and all that stuff;
i think the album has its own distinctive sound and its a good one at that.
true, its not the most clean cut sound you'll ever hear. but it elevates the songs and makes them work in interesting ways instead of playing it safe with only an acoustic, for example.
the production for 'tear' might be one of my only gripes about this album... it just doesnt do that song justice at all.

also, dont forget that Adore could have easily been a #1 chart breaking album. billy had Cash Car Star and LMGTWTY and he could have made some fairly safe choices but decided to go all the way with his artistic integrity.
not very wise commercially, perhaps, but at the time i truly respected him for that (respect that was dismembered later with Zeitgeist).

i will raise the obvious question that hasn't been asked yet:
it is a no-brainer that Kid A was ten times more experimental, esoteric and inaccessible
than Adore. how come Kid A was so huge and Adore tanked?
Kid A barely had any conventional songwriting at all, and if there was, it was masked with studio trickery and experimentation, whereas Adore still had a songwriting style that could still very easily fit mainstream crowds.
i guess it boils down to being in the right place at the right time and having the right people think the right things about you (this is not to downplay radiohead, just typing Kid A gives me chills ).

 
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Old 10-16-2007, 02:32 PM   #18
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i subscribe to this school of thought: a reason why adore 'failed' was because sp were IN YOUR FACE for 3+ years before this album was released and everybody got sick of them. face it, billy is no media darling either. i would venture to say that radiohead have not reached the level of commerial success that sp have, hence why people aren't burnt out on them. ?

 
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Old 10-16-2007, 02:34 PM   #19
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it failed because of the acoustic break down in the middle of Behold! the nightmare *




not really, it was apples and oranjes

 
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Old 10-16-2007, 02:36 PM   #20
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joe, do you hate a + o? because its one of my favs. it kinda seems our sp tastes are on oppisite ends of the spectrum.

 
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Old 10-16-2007, 02:38 PM   #21
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A+O is the most dated sounding song on the album

 
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Old 10-16-2007, 02:38 PM   #22
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i wish he would keep getting weirder and wierder
(a doom drone metal album maybe?)

 
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Old 10-16-2007, 02:39 PM   #23
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KEV-IN check you PMs

 
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Old 10-16-2007, 02:41 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by waltermcphilp
it failed because of the acoustic break down in the middle of Behold! the nightmare *
without it, it would have been trying to be just an other "ruby" or "soma"
(those are GREAT SONGS mind you, but, we have them already)

 
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Old 10-16-2007, 02:41 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pale_princess
A+O is the most dated sounding song on the album
pug & a+o where my 2 favs when the album was released, and i still really enjoy them. i think today though, i have a greater apprecaition or martha & blank page/

Quote:
Originally Posted by T&T
i wish he would keep getting weirder and wierder
(a doom drone metal album maybe?)
i'd love an all agressive sp album. i dream about this, but i doubt it'll ever happen. i'm sure THAT idea would alienate some fans.

 
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Old 10-16-2007, 02:44 PM   #26
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I couldn't even finish reading the original post.

Adore is perfectly cohesive, IMO. That's just my opinion, of course... but I don't understand how it has a lack of focus. All their albums are incredibly cohesive.

 
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Old 10-16-2007, 02:46 PM   #27
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leakin rain on teh phone

 
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Old 10-16-2007, 02:46 PM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by smashkin33
joe, do you hate a + o? because its one of my favs. it kinda seems our sp tastes are on oppisite ends of the spectrum.
from what i remember i am not a fan. i will listen to it when i get home and get back to you. my love for Behold the nightmare however, is everlasting.

 
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Old 10-16-2007, 02:47 PM   #29
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I think it served as a decent transition to Machina.

I'm surprised at all of these people saying it was "an album true to his heart" and stuff about how he did what most people wouldn't have.

I disagree. One of the MOST popular pumpkins songs (to the general public) is 1979. Perfect was like 1979 part 2, and I saw it as an attempt to get the same general public into Adore.

I mean... didn't they even go so far as to tie in the 1979 music video to Perfect's?

There are other songs on that album that sound somewhat similar to 1979, as if the record company told him, "make a new record based on that song plz".

I'm definitely not saying this is what happened at all. I think Adore is a great album. But I disagree with the fact that it was one of his most "from the bottom of the heart" albums ever. It feels that way, yeah, but it had it's attempt at commercial success drilled in there.

 
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Old 10-16-2007, 02:48 PM   #30
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Well duh Billy wants commercial success... common sense.

 
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